Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[UpTheFront]

Noticed when passing that at least one 700 near Hornsey is now free of Thameslink branding on the side. No Great Northern logo as yet, but can't be long...

I've not long since passed out on 700s (I'm a GN driver) and we were told they are delivered unbranded. Later the same week we saw one arrive by freight train and indeed it was delivered unbranded.
From a driver's point of view I like them..nice cabs,good interface and much better all around than the 387s

 

[UpTheFront]

But many passengers will travel on them for well over an hour. Peterborough and Cambridge semi fasts for example.

A true bargain basement interior in my opinion.

Try Peterborough-Horsham!

 

[jon0844]

Ah, so these are the ones destined for GN (and, later, Thameslink).

Makes sense, rather than when they were coming with the old logo and having to be changed. Perhaps these will get the new TL logo then.

 

[387star]

Confused. Com so some 700 will be gn branded ? I thought they would all be tl

 

[Hadders]

Would that be the same DfT incompetence that specified the PIS, the air con, the fast doors, the ride quality and the acceleration characteristics?

Yep. They probably think no-one travels outside Zones 1-6 on them. They would've been so much better with a 365 style interior.

 

[jon0844]

If they're going into service in September, they'll need some branding before the core opens up to the ECML in December 2018.. so I am not sure what GTR plans to do.

Thameslink would be somewhat confusing would it not?

But the link up is one reason why I still don't understand why they changed the Thameslink logo so much, as there was a common theme with GN and TL, which sort of worked with a merger in mind.

In fact, you might even imagine the trains having both logos on them (rather like greateranglia and stansted express) but, again, rather difficult now the logos are totally different.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Would that be the same DfT incompetence that specified the PIS, the air con, the fast doors, the ride quality and the acceleration characteristics?

Considering the PIS controller and the Air Con systems are exactly the same ones as used on other Siemens rolling stock, I'd say they may well have been there anyway.

Or do you really think Siemens designed a train from scratch with brand new parts and suppliers they never used before just for the DFT rather than using their own trusted suppliers and experience?

The only things truly unique to the train that are brand new are the interior spec.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thameslink would be somewhat confusing would it not?

The name "Thameslink" has been synonymous to the Bedford-Brighton and Luton-Wimbledon-Sutton route since 1987.

If the 700s are to eventually become common-pool between the TL, SN and GN routes, I can't see a future for the Thameslink brand name

Run a competition for a more suitable name...

 

[Bald Rick]

Considering the PIS controller and the Air Con systems are exactly the same ones as used on other Siemens rolling stock, I'd say they may well have been there anyway.

Or do you really think Siemens designed a train from scratch with brand new parts and suppliers they never used before just for the DFT rather than using their own trusted suppliers and experience?

The only things truly unique to the train that are brand new are the interior spec.

The PIS displays, and the information they provide, was very much specified by the DfT. Passengers don't give two hoots about what goes on in the guts of the system, it what they (we!) see that matters.

Fair point on the aircon though.

 

[MCR247]

The name "Thameslink" has been synonymous to the Bedford-Brighton and Luton-Wimbledon-Sutton route since 1987.

If the 700s are to eventually become common-pool between the TL, SN and GN routes, I can't see a future for the Thameslink brand name

Run a competition for a more suitable name...

Really? But surely most services using 700s will be using the Thameslink core (or are variations of such services)

 

[AM9]

The name "Thameslink" has been synonymous to the Bedford-Brighton and Luton-Wimbledon-Sutton route since 1987.

If the 700s are to eventually become common-pool between the TL, SN and GN routes, I can't see a future for the Thameslink brand name

Run a competition for a more suitable name...

Surely, 'Thameslink' signifies the connection between services north and south of the River Thames via the old Snow Hill tunnel, hence the 'City Thameslink' station name at the centre of the cross city core. If all core trains are formed of units from a common class, there should only be one branding, - anything else would just cause confusion, particularly given GTR's inability to ensure units with the correct Electrostar livery is diagrammed south of the river.
If it 'aint broke, why change it?

 

[Peter Sarf]

The name "Thameslink" has been synonymous to the Bedford-Brighton and Luton-Wimbledon-Sutton route since 1987.

If the 700s are to eventually become common-pool between the TL, SN and GN routes, I can't see a future for the Thameslink brand name

Run a competition for a more suitable name...

May I be the first to suggest "Thameslink" is renamed "Crossrail 0" :roll:. That is after all what it is. Or is "Crossrail 2" going to get called "Thameslink 2" .

 

[bengley]

I don't see what is confusing about 'Thameslink'

'Thameslink' will simply gain more routes and will become a much larger operation than previously with all of the routes going through the core.

Not confusing at all.

 

[JaJaWa]

In 14 years on the route, travelling at all times of day, night and all days of the week, I have never seen a cleaner on a TL train in passenger service.

Travel down from TL north at lunchtime and one always seems to get on at St Pancras.

Tl related but briefly off topic. .

Are 3 and 4 platforms at black friars not worthy of new screens ?

Think they’re mainly to help with the new variety of northern destinations.

 

[Bald Rick]

It was always my understanding that the Thameslink services on the GN side would be Thameslink branded.

 

[bramling]

The name "Thameslink" has been synonymous to the Bedford-Brighton and Luton-Wimbledon-Sutton route since 1987.

If the 700s are to eventually become common-pool between the TL, SN and GN routes, I can't see a future for the Thameslink brand name

Run a competition for a more suitable name...

How about DelayLink/ ? That would be highly suitable.

I think the Thameslink brand will remain though, although given the brand seems pretty toxic to every commuter I know who has used the service, perhaps it could be a good time for a change.

 

[jon0844]

The name "Thameslink" has been synonymous to the Bedford-Brighton and Luton-Wimbledon-Sutton route since 1987.

If the 700s are to eventually become common-pool between the TL, SN and GN routes, I can't see a future for the Thameslink brand name

Run a competition for a more suitable name...

\GreatLink

/NorthernSouthernLink\

and other variations of. Extra bonus points if you can get GatEx in there somewhere....!

FWIW, Thameslink is fine as long as there's a proper plan on how to brand everything, and of course it helps tell punters where the train is going (namely St Pancras or King's Cross) but it's going to be confusing.

No doubt this is why we have TflRail before Cros, sorry, the Elizabeth Line starts. Of course Thameslink already exists, but between September and next December, it will be a bit odd if these trains run but not through the core.

 

[bramling]

\GreatLink

/NorthernSouthernLink\

and other variations of. Extra bonus points if you can get GatEx in there somewhere....!

FWIW, Thameslink is fine as long as there's a proper plan on how to brand everything, and of course it helps tell punters where the train is going (namely St Pancras or King's Cross) but it's going to be confusing.

No doubt this is why we have TflRail before Cros, sorry, the Elizabeth Line starts. Of course Thameslink already exists, but between September and next December, it will be a bit odd if these trains run but not through the core.

It could be sensible to just debrand the trains for now and have nothing, which avoids any issue, then quietly redo the branding when the time comes.

I'm quietly amused by the suggestion of a brand which includes the word Southern - that would really feed optimism to GN users! One wonders how many users realise Great Northern is actually one and the same operator as the much-maligned and notorious Southern.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It could be sensible to just debrand the trains for now and have nothing, which avoids any issue, then quietly redo the branding when the time comes.

I'm quietly amused by the suggestion of a brand which includes the word Southern - that would really feed optimism to GN users! One wonders how many users realise Great Northern is actually one and the same operator as the much-maligned and notorious Southern.

Perhaps with all the bad publicity, perhaps the "Southern" name could be quietly dropped too

 

[jon0844]

It could be sensible to just debrand the trains for now and have nothing, which avoids any issue, then quietly redo the branding when the time comes.

I'm quietly amused by the suggestion of a brand which includes the word Southern - that would really feed optimism to GN users! One wonders how many users realise Great Northern is actually one and the same operator as the much-maligned and notorious Southern.

There's certainly a lot of effort it not having the Govia branding on posters etc. You're right that a lot of people won't know the link.

Although the media, unions and social media probably do a good job of reminding people from time to time.

I can't help but feel that when we had FCC and TL and GN were just two 'branches' almost, it would have been easier to link the routes today than by having totally separate branding. Customer services and the social media teams might be one and the same, but it will confuse people who will think they are two separate companies (perhaps) and during disruption at, say, Finsbury Park will be trying to contact two companies for information!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Perhaps with all the bad publicity, perhaps the "Southern" name could be quietly dropped too

Well how about renaming "Southern" as "Not Northern" then, with a punch line of "We aint goin Nawf of the river" [/tongue-in-cheek].

On a sensible (though I say so myself) note. It seems obvious that the "Thameslink" brand/route name will get a re-launch when the link from StPancras to the ECML opens. I can hear it now - "Thameslink is growing with new exciting destinations !" & "Its never been a better time to try......".

 

[Max]

I've had that a few times - it tends to be a throw of the dice. I've had a couple of 319s on the 0818 BMS starter in particular despite having had a 700 on it previously.

I know that previously they had a 319 sitting spare in Bedford CS for whoever turned up to drive the preceding service from Luton in case a driver arrived that hasn't yet been signed-off to drive a 700.

Although, by now, I wouldn't expect that to be an excuse any longer.

Interesting, thanks for the lowdown. Perhaps I'll see you on-board one day, as this is one of my regular morning commutes!

 

[bramling]

Well how about renaming "Southern" as "Not Northern" then, with a punch line of "We aint goin Nawf of the river" [/tongue-in-cheek].

On a sensible (though I say so myself) note. It seems obvious that the "Thameslink" brand/route name will get a re-launch when the link from StPancras to the ECML opens. I can hear it now - "Thameslink is growing with new exciting destinations !" & "Its never been a better time to try......".

More like a parasite or disease that's spreading...

 

[Peter Sarf]

More like a parasite or disease that's spreading...

They will be cutting back on the cleaning regime then :roll:.

 

[jon0844]

On a sensible (though I say so myself) note. It seems obvious that the "Thameslink" brand/route name will get a re-launch when the link from StPancras to the ECML opens. I can hear it now - "Thameslink is growing with new exciting destinations !" & "Its never been a better time to try......".

Hopefully not another new logo!

 

[bramling]

Hopefully not another new logo!

The excitement of the new destinations is too much to bear - how exciting that one will be able to go for a day out in Horsham or Rainham! (If the train actually gets there without being turned short, and if travelling from further afield it is hardly going to be a comfortable journey on a class 700).

 

[Abpj17]

Something odd with the PIS today...

 

[samuelmorris]

Had an interesting one today - every exterior destination display was flashing, the destination appeared for maybe 100ms tops then disappeared for a second or two. The displays at the front and rear of the train were doing it, as were all the side displays. The internal PIS seemed to be working fine. Unit was 700021.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Extra bonus points if you can get GatEx in there somewhere....!

Would GatLink get me your bonus points?

 

[jon0844]

View attachment 33865

Something odd with the PIS today...

Are they going into space now?