Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Supercoss]

All platforms in the Central London core are will have a raised area opposite the prm space on 8/12 car c700 stock to allow step free access with platform dwell times being 75 seconds and train every 2.5 minutes, insufficient time to deploy conventional ramp
Each 700 has an onboard ramp located at rear of prm toilet
unable to raise height now until other stock leaves the route

 

[bramling]

Doesn't change the fact you mentioned something untrue.



Note the reply was over Bramling's post stating the GN is wholly AC only. Not true unless you believe Letchworth to Kings Cross via WGC or Hertford is mot part of the GN network which has dv units with none retracting shoes.

Yes. I forgot about the 313s.

Why did I forget about the 313s?

Because they're not really relevant to the outer-suburban GN network, which makes up virtually all of what is planned to be integrated into Thameslink.

I'm not really fussed about the risks arising from non-retracting shoes, as has been posted elsewhere DC trains lose their shoegear all the time for a variety of reasons and it seldom seems to cause too much bother, although of course it is another thing to go wrong. I'm more concerned with the performance of the DC rail system in winter weather conditions, which is something I have direct experience of working with. At present we're only really talking about Drayton Park platform, now we're going to be introducing risks from everything south of the river.

There are a lot more days when we get ice or snow compared to OHLE being affected by storms, and these are the days when one really wants to be taking the train instead of the car. At present the GN performs pretty well in winter weather conditions, the Southern Region doesn't. So I suppose we can look forward to either emergency timetable or massive disruption.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Do the 700s have sanding gear?

 

[westcoaster]

Do the 700s have sanding gear?

Yes they do, manual when accelerating and automatic under braking. Sanders are on all coaches that have shoes.

 

[swt class 450]

Looks like the last train through before buses start, so presume runs fast to get through the area before engineering possessions are taken.

Thanks. I didnt realise there was enginerring work. Although it still seems strange that they would miss out these three stations. Surely it would only add a few minutes extra to call at them?

 

[Class377/5]

Yes. I forgot about the 313s.

Why did I forget about the 313s?

Because they're not really relevant to the outer-suburban GN network, which makes up virtually all of what is planned to be integrated into Thameslink.

I'm not really fussed about the risks arising from non-retracting shoes, as has been posted elsewhere DC trains lose their shoegear all the time for a variety of reasons and it seldom seems to cause too much bother, although of course it is another thing to go wrong. I'm more concerned with the performance of the DC rail system in winter weather conditions, which is something I have direct experience of working with. At present we're only really talking about Drayton Park platform, now we're going to be introducing risks from everything south of the river.

There are a lot more days when we get ice or snow compared to OHLE being affected by storms, and these are the days when one really wants to be taking the train instead of the car. At present the GN performs pretty well in winter weather conditions, the Southern Region doesn't. So I suppose we can look forward to either emergency timetable or massive disruption.

Then perhaps done make wild statements about the GN being an wholly AC railway when actually what you mean is its mostly AC powered railway. Your original untrue statement was over the GN being a wholly AC operation which ignores the 313 cleared routes (and actually now is almost fully dv route with 700s cleared to Peterborough and Ely).

There is also a difference between losing a shoe or two and losing all shoes down one side. The latter means you cannot continue in service on the 3rd rail as its only on one side and does vary meaning sooner than later you'd end with a train dead.

As for the comments over weather related conditions, I'd argue weather related problems are not that common as you suggest. It's more in extreme weather events. Again your making assumptions.

 

[bramling]

Then perhaps done make wild statements about the GN being an wholly AC railway when actually what you mean is its mostly AC powered railway.

OK - mostly an AC powered railway. There we go, cleared that one up. The original point still stands, however.

As for the comments over weather related conditions, I'd argue weather related problems are not that common as you suggest. It's more in extreme weather events. Again your making assumptions.

Depends on your definition of common I suppose. The last couple of years haven't been too bad.

However I've spent enough time digging out DC trains over the years to have a pretty informed view of which system I'd prefer to take me to & from work!

Let's look at the real world. A storm involving high winds tends to last for a few hours. So I can choose to travel to work early either by car or train. After the storm I can also travel to work, there may be disruption but I should be able to get to work safely. Trees on the line tend to be cleared fairly quickly, if the wires are down then I should be able to travel by car. Snow and ice is much more dangerous on the road, and can last for days, so this is where having a reliable rail service is pretty important.

As an example, London Underground, for one, relies heavily on staff coming to work by mainline train -- and a fair few live in the towns served by the GN route. Many also use the Southern Region. Guess which ones are *far* more badly affected in winter weather? A member of LU operational staff that doesn't get to work is possibly a cancelled train or a closed station.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When a track section has had an engineering possession, shouldn't the first non-engineering train pass over the section at walking pace to be able to stop short of any hazards not cleaned up/dealt with/spotted by engineering crews eg anything that could rip shoes off a unit?

 

[bramling]

When a track section has had an engineering possession, shouldn't the first non-engineering train pass over the section at walking pace to be able to stop short of any hazards not cleaned up/dealt with/spotted by engineering crews eg anything that could rip shoes off a unit?

The general procedure is it's up to the person in charge of the worksite to leave it in a safe condition, safe for trains to run. The idea is that things aren't left which could cause a problem, and it's up to the plans for the work to ensure they have a process to ensure this happens.

Whilst there would be some merits of having the first train run at reduced speed, remember that:

1) If the worksite hasn't been left safe, something could go wrong even at low speed. How low a speed are we going to have?

2) If you're suggesting the line should be examined, is this best done from a train, and who will do it? The driver isn't really qualified to be looking in detail for things which could be amiss, and in any case it would be a distraction from operating the train.

But, having said all that, yes things can and do go wrong after engineering works - thankfully normally minor things albeit which can cause disruption. One mitigation is for at least some of the workers to remain on site or nearby to be ready to act if something does go wrong.

 

[Via Bank]

2W57 spent fourteen minutes at City Thameslink trying to open the doors today, before eventually running to Blackfriars and being caped there.

The driver announced over the PA that the ASDO system worked using GPS and that there was no manual override. The former statement seems unlikely (does City Thameslink, being underground, not have beacons à la STP?) and so does the latter. Perhaps Class377/5 could shed some light on this?

There were a number of quite peeved passengers at BFR this evening (I was one.)

 

[Bald Rick]

2W57 spent fourteen minutes at City Thameslink trying to open the doors today, before eventually running to Blackfriars and being caped there.

The driver announced over the PA that the ASDO system worked using GPS and that there was no manual override. The former statement seems unlikely (does City Thameslink, being underground, not have beacons à la STP?) and so does the latter. Perhaps Class377/5 could shed some light on this?

There were a number of quite peeved passengers at BFR this evening (I was one.)

Every station in the core has beacons. And there is a manual override, as many drivers routinely use it when the train doesn't stop in the beacon 'window'.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When a track section has had an engineering possession, shouldn't the first non-engineering train pass over the section at walking pace to be able to stop short of any hazards not cleaned up/dealt with/spotted by engineering crews eg anything that could rip shoes off a unit?

Nope. Some possessions can be 30-40 miles long. Think about how long it would take for the first train to traverse at walking pace...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

While on my way to work this morning I encountered an old gentleman with rather heavy luggage, whom I assisted by carrying it down to the platform and lifting it on to the train, which got me thinking.

Presumably all Thameslink services will be formed of 700s in the future. Are there any plans, at the core stations at least, to raise the platforms up to allow for level access from the 700s?

You can see the raised area of platform on the new Platfrom 5 at London Bridge (not yet in service).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Assuming, of course, there's space to put them at King's Cross. I have visions of, in reality, massive blocking back into King's Cross waiting for platform space, and Thameslink trains blocking up the platforms whilst crewing arrangements are resolved.

What are the plans for crews? Will crews from the Southern Region be working north of the river, and vice versa?

The peak TL service in the ECML can be turned back in the Canal Tunnels and 1 Platfrom at KX with ease. It is indeed all about the drivers though, ie providing enough. Yes crews will work both sides of the river as they do today.

 

[asylumxl]

All platforms in the Central London core are will have a raised area opposite the prm space on 8/12 car c700 stock to allow step free access with platform dwell times being 75 seconds and train every 2.5 minutes, insufficient time to deploy conventional ramp
Each 700 has an onboard ramp located at rear of prm toilet
unable to raise height now until other stock leaves the route

You can see the raised area of platform on the new Platfrom 5 at London Bridge (not yet in service)..

I appreciate there will be a hump, like those used on London Underground, but I meant more when other stock is gone.

As I'm sure you're aware, many of the newer sections of LO have level access for every carriage. My question was more if this was planned for the TL core after the withdrawal of all other stock from the route.

 

[Bald Rick]

I appreciate there will be a hump, like those used on London Underground, but I meant more when other stock is gone.

As I'm sure you're aware, many of the newer sections of LO have level access for every carriage. My question was more if this was planned for the TL core after the withdrawal of all other stock from the route.

Nope. The humps have to be removable also. It is likely that in the asset life of the platforms that lower floor trains will be available, ie closer to (or even at) 915mm standard Platform height. You could of course raise the track, but that is not so straightforward where there is OLE or where the station is built mostly on a 180 year old viaduct.

 

[asylumxl]

Nope. The humps have to be removable also. It is likely that in the asset life of the platforms that lower floor trains will be available, ie closer to (or even at) 915mm standard Platform height. You could of course raise the track, but that is not so straightforward where there is OLE or where the station is built mostly on a 180 year old viaduct.

So I assume the powers that be don't feel it is economical to raise the platforms themselves in the core to match the trains. From what I can tell the floor height of the 378s is 1151mm (from a FOI request), so am I right to assume the platforms have been built to that height or raised to that height on LO?

 

[387star]

I assume the brown streaks of grime appearing on the sides of the body/windows is from the panto wells like the 315s? Not aware of them on 387s

 

[Class377/5]

OK - mostly an AC powered railway. There we go, cleared that one up. The original point still stands, however.

Doesn't change the fact most of it is already gauged actively for trains with non retractable shoes ether

Depends on your definition of common I suppose. The last couple of years haven't been too bad.

I worked through the recent bad years.

However I've spent enough time digging out DC trains over the years to have a pretty informed view of which system I'd prefer to take me to & from work!

As someone who has worked for many years on TL with both systems needed, I'd say for my experience the DC can be affected more but its fair simpler and quicker to fix than AC so the actual impact on the passengers isn't too different between the two.

I have very clear memories standing on platforms in the early hours of the morning hacking chunks of ice off the train so it can go into service.

Let's look at the real world. A storm involving high winds tends to last for a few hours. So I can choose to travel to work early either by car or train. After the storm I can also travel to work, there may be disruption but I should be able to get to work safely. Trees on the line tend to be cleared fairly quickly, if the wires are down then I should be able to travel by car. Snow and ice is much more dangerous on the road, and can last for days, so this is where having a reliable rail service is pretty important.

A storm will bring tree's down which affects AC more than DC. Couple of years ago, Thameslink ran from Farringdon to Brighton without issue while the section to Bedford was shut for most of the day due to tree's in the overheads.

I'm not sure your actual example helps your case that AC is more reliable than DC (if that's not your point, I've missed it).

As an example, London Underground, for one, relies heavily on staff coming to work by mainline train -- and a fair few live in the towns served by the GN route. Many also use the Southern Region. Guess which ones are *far* more badly affected in winter weather? A member of LU operational staff that doesn't get to work is possibly a cancelled train or a closed station.

I contest that not true in my experience, your confusing personal opinion with fact. Unless you have some actual data in this area? Your obsession with LU services overlooks large numbers of TOC staff travel on rail to/from work, myself included. Worth noting that first trains come from the ends of route as early morning trains LU staff travel on won't be affected by the other end of the route. For example those coming from Peterborough won't have been affected by an issue at say Horsham so your example for that is not really revelant. A better one would be commuters but by this point the problem will be know about and those early trains can be turned around ensuring there is still a service.

2W57 spent fourteen minutes at City Thameslink trying to open the doors today, before eventually running to Blackfriars and being caped there.

The driver announced over the PA that the ASDO system worked using GPS and that there was no manual override. The former statement seems unlikely (does City Thameslink, being underground, not have beacons à la STP?) and so does the latter. Perhaps Class377/5 could shed some light on this?

There were a number of quite peeved passengers at BFR this evening (I was one.)

Technically the drivers are using MASDO when they balise on the track isn't allowing the automatic ability to release doors. However as a safety precaution the trains have a defined stopping window that drivers are still adjusting to. The 8 cars have different stopping points to the 12 cars so the disable area (for want of a better term) is always at the same point no matter what the length is.

Stations with balise include all Core stations and stations with varying platform lengthens like Gatwick.

So I assume the powers that be don't feel it is economical to raise the platforms themselves in the core to match the trains. From what I can tell the floor height of the 378s is 1151mm (from a FOI request), so am I right to assume the platforms have been built to that height or raised to that height on LO?

The issue is of gauge. Having the platform at the same level as the step boards is challenging in the Core. St Pancras is on an curve, Farringdon is an S shape, City is a U shape with either end higher than the middle and Blackfriars has curves to it too. However only Blackfriars could see other stock in the through platforms in engineering works, not to mention cross platform interchange with none 700 stock in the bay platforms means raising the whole platform just isn't that practical.

The idea of a single raised area is helpful to centralise facilities for those that require them. Ie universal toilet are located next to the step free (in the Core) area. Its a bit harder to then move down the train trying to find a suitable toilet especially the busier the train gets.

There has been serious thought put into providing proper access to all on the Thameslink Core. The solution has been a way to provide a decent experience for those needing to use the Core stations.

 

[bramling]

I have very clear memories standing on platforms in the early hours of the morning hacking chunks of ice off the train so it can go into service.

It's not so much about the train, but the juice rail.

I contest that not true in my experience, your confusing personal opinion with fact. Unless you have some actual data in this area?

It's pretty well known.

You could ask any LU manager who books on staff which National Rail routes are the most and least reliable. Thameslink and Southern would almost certainly be the first answer for least reliable, even before the recent issues.

Meanwhile it's common when winter weather is forecast for line managements to collate data on how individual staff get to work, it being well known that the Southern Region is generally far worse affected.

Worth noting that first trains come from the ends of route as early morning trains LU staff travel on won't be affected by the other end of the route.

What has early morning got to do with it? People travel to work at all times of day!

For example those coming from Peterborough won't have been affected by an issue at say Horsham

Okay, so those trains starting from the north may not be affected. But it won't be long before those missing or delayed trains from the south start having an effect north of the river.

Meanwhile, of course, people also want/need to get home! Now your Horsham problem certainly will be causing issues to people.

those early trains can be turned around ensuring there is still a service.

those early trains *may* be able to be turned round depending on crew availability.

If the driver is booked to finish south of the river and there's no one else available, the train is more likely to be put away.

 

[Class377/5]

It's not so much about the train, but the juice rail.

And? Remember this thread is about a type of train so talking about it from this point of view is the point.

It's pretty well known.

You could ask any LU manager who books on staff which National Rail routes are the most and least reliable. Thameslink and Southern would almost certainly be the first answer for least reliable, even before the recent issues.

That's all opinion. I take your lack of evidence (or even your wording) to mean you have nothing real or substantial.

Meanwhile it's common when winter weather is forecast for line managements to collate data on how individual staff get to work, it being well known that the Southern Region is generally far worse affected.

All good management should know where staff are coming in from. Certainly always been my experience.

But again your using opinion as fact. Especially as the 'Southern Region' is a terms for a far wider area than the topic scope which includes parts of GWR, SWT, GTR and SE. Can you clarify what you mean please especially as we are talking in this topic about Thameslink.

What has early morning got to do with it? People travel to work at all times of day!

Because your talking about weather related such as icy conditions or trees on the line. That is affected more overnight when temperatures drop. You mentioned staff getting to work who tend to need trains at the more extremes of the day. During the day, weather related items (high winds not withstanding) affect things far less.

Okay, so those trains starting from the north may not be affected. But it won't be long before those missing or delayed trains from the south start having an effect north of the river.

Well that's where service recovery comes into it and trains turn around prior to final point to ensure a service is maintained.

Meanwhile, of course, people also want/need to get home! Now your Horsham problem certainly will be causing issues to people.

There will always be issues on the lines however its impact can be limited. Your example of wires down is another where it will require alterations to cope but its do-able.

those early trains *may* be able to be turned round depending on crew availability.

If the driver is booked to finish south of the river and there's no one else available, the train is more likely to be put away.

But this is you inventing issues that don't exist. First services are generally always fresh on driver meaning they can turn the train around and head back. My point about what drivers should sign if they sign the Core must have been missed by yourself then?

Your point is actually about the resourcing of the Thameslink Programme which actually is off topic (and again this is the thread for the trains). You seems unable to see the difference between the TLP and the class 700. One is an over arching project, other is a small part of that. Your constant attempts to link the trains with how the service is resourced is you barking up the wrong tree.

 

[bramling]

That's all opinion. I take your lack of evidence (or even your wording) to mean you have nothing real or substantial.

Ok, if you wish to believe that then fine.

But again your using opinion as fact. Especially as the 'Southern Region' is a terms for a far wider area than the topic scope which includes parts of GWR, SWT, GTR and SE. Can you clarify what you mean please especially as we are talking in this topic about Thameslink.

Okay - mainline services radiating from Charing Cross, Cannon Street, London Bridge Victoria and Waterloo, plus Thameslink.

Because your talking about weather related such as icy conditions or trees on the line. That is affected more overnight when temperatures drop.

Yep, agreed about temperatures dropping. Don't forget that temperatures drop in the evening too, which in the winter can be quite early, perhaps in time for the evening peak.

You mentioned staff getting to work who tend to need trains at the more extremes of the day.

Simply not true. Staff book on for work at various times right through the day.

Using LU as an example, you have a large batch of drivers who book on around midday, the late turn then continues to book on in large numbers up until about 2000. Same with station staff, many arriving in time for the evening peak when extra staff are required to make up the increased minimum numbers requirements. Then you have night staff too around 2200, especially for the stations.

During the day, weather related items (high winds not withstanding) affect things far less.

That will be news to me a certain day a few years ago when it started snowing at 1500, and by 1700 must of London had ground to a halt - road and rail. But I still got home pretty easily on GN!

But this is you inventing issues that don't exist. First services are generally always fresh on driver meaning they can turn the train around and head back.

Can you guarantee this? I note the word "generally".

Your point is actually about the resourcing of the Thameslink Programme which actually is off topic (and again this is the thread for the trains). You seems unable to see the difference between the TLP and the class 700. One is an over arching project, other is a small part of that. Your constant attempts to link the trains with how the service is resourced is you barking up the wrong tree.

Ah, the old off-topic chestnut comes up again. Any attempt to shut down debate on Thameslink isn't it.

 

[Deepgreen]

Ok, if you wish to believe that then fine.



Okay - mainline services radiating from Charing Cross, Cannon Street, London Bridge Victoria and Waterloo, plus Thameslink.



Yep, agreed about temperatures dropping. Don't forget that temperatures drop in the evening too, which in the winter can be quite early, perhaps in time for the evening peak.



Simply not true. Staff book on for work at various times right through the day.

Using LU as an example, you have a large batch of drivers who book on around midday, the late turn then continues to book on in large numbers up until about 2000. Same with station staff, many arriving in time for the evening peak when extra staff are required to make up the increased minimum numbers requirements. Then you have night staff too around 2200, especially for the stations.



That will be news to me a certain day a few years ago when it started snowing at 1500, and by 1700 must of London had ground to a halt - road and rail. But I still got home pretty easily on GN!




Can you guarantee this? I note the word "generally".




Ah, the old off-topic chestnut comes up again. Any attempt to shut down debate on Thameslink isn't it.

I just wondered what the phrase "generally always" meant! Anyway, have the offending scrap rails been moved to allow shoes to remain intact north of the river, and has an edict been issued to prevent further junk from being dumped in the area?

 

[Class377/5]

Ok, if you wish to believe that then fine.

Thanks for letting me have my own mind.

Okay - mainline services radiating from Charing Cross, Cannon Street, London Bridge Victoria and Waterloo, plus Thameslink.

Thank to you for clarifying your point. So mostly DC connected services, guessing the Milton Keynes would be included too? However your starting to lose focus on your point.

Yep, agreed about temperatures dropping. Don't forget that temperatures drop in the evening too, which in the winter can be quite early, perhaps in time for the evening peak.

A fair point.

Simply not true. Staff book on for work at various times right through the day.

Using LU as an example, you have a large batch of drivers who book on around midday, the late turn then continues to book on in large numbers up until about 2000. Same with station staff, many arriving in time for the evening peak when extra staff are required to make up the increased minimum numbers requirements. Then you have night staff too around 2200, especially for the stations.

Yes they sign on during the day however those signing on at various parts of during the day are less critical. You mention early turn staff coming to work being late means less trains or closed stations. However those that come in during the day will have more advanced notice generally (sudden events like tree on the line not withstanding)and the ability for those on duty to cover for a small period as generally front line staff don't do maximum hours. So those signing on at various times will have less impact on the service as a whole.

That will be news to me a certain day a few years ago when it started snowing at 1500, and by 1700 must of London had ground to a halt - road and rail. But I still got home pretty easily on GN!

I've seen DC trains run later than 2200 on the DC networks so your point again hinges on personal experiences not fact/imperial evidence as such.

Can you guarantee this? I note the word "generally".

Your asking me to guarantee what a company will do for ever more? You realise that impossible to guarantee right?

Generally as the situation at present is there isn't first/last trains of the day for the Bedford to Brighton (well Three Bridges) services with some of these all night services not having fresh on drivers but drivers towards the end of their shifts which could be considered first/last trains. However first/last trains to say Brighton has drivers from Brighton depot meaning any issues and trains can be turned around.

Ah, the old off-topic chestnut comes up again. Any attempt to shut down debate on Thameslink isn't it.

This isn't a topic about Thameslink but the trains used on it. I'm trying to shut down your off topic points. Why not post these views in a thread about the TLP as a whole rather than take this topic off topic?

You seem unwilling to see the difference between what the Class 700 is and the TLP is but want to make a point of how unworkable the TLP is because of x, y and z, none of which is actually connected to the trains in question. Any issues like DC usage is equally applied to any stock chosen to run on TLP.

 

[AM9]

... Ah, the old off-topic chestnut comes up again. Any attempt to shut down debate on Thameslink isn't it.

This thread is about the trains. It's title:

'ThamesLink Class 700 Construction & Testing Progress - Now Entering Service'

is a big clue. Why do you persist in drifting off the subject to moan about the route, the TOC, DfT et al to the exclusion of the trains?
I'm sure that with so much to say about those extraneous issues, you could start your own thread on them. Then you can air your ire as much as you like. You might get more direct answers on those issues as well, so at least there could be an intelligent discussion on that topic.

 

[Class377/5]

This thread is about the trains. It's title:

'ThamesLink Class 700 Construction & Testing Progress - Now Entering Service'

is a big clue. Why do you persist in drifting off the subject to moan about the route, the TOC, DfT et al to the exclusion of the trains?
I'm sure that with so much to say about those extraneous issues, you could start your own thread on them. Then you can air your ire as much as you like. You might get more direct answers on those issues as well, so at least there could be an intelligent discussion on that topic.

There are threads already doing this, however he chose not to post in them. perhaps a sign he doesn't believe his point would stand up to a whole thread discussion.

However I hope he's managed to find time to respond to the public consultation. He did at least have some ideas how to make others have a capacity increase so his own route could stay frozen in time.

 

[Saint66]

Have to admit, many of the posts which verge on being purely about the TLP (I know there can be crossover between the two, but there doesn't seem like much to me) have been a bit annoying for the past few months now, especially with how I visit for updates on the 700's and how things are progressing.

 

[bramling]

Thank to you for clarifying your point. So mostly DC connected services, guessing the Milton Keynes would be included too?

Can't comment on the MK service as I don't really have experience of that service. (Apart from picking up a feeling on here that it's pretty unreliable!).

Yes they sign on during the day however those signing on at various parts of during the day are less critical. You mention early turn staff coming to work being late means less trains or closed stations. However those that come in during the day will have more advanced notice generally (sudden events like tree on the line not withstanding)and the ability for those on duty to cover for a small period as generally front line staff don't do maximum hours. So those signing on at various times will have less impact on the service as a whole.

Sorry but this is complete nonsense.

As regards drivers, you have a finite number of duties to cover, and a finite number of spares available. Remember LU drivers don't do overtime, except to get the train out of the way in an emergency. Once spares are used up, that's it. The only other option available is to get crews in from another depot, if they're not already tied up.

As regards stations, it's not a case of staff covering. The minimum numbers required vary through the day, and are non-negotiable for safety reasons. So as the minimum numbers go up, for example for the evening peak, you need extra staff. You can't ask someone to stay on who's not there in the first place!

The basic point is that LU, like every other business in London, relies on reliable National Rail services to get staff to where they need to be, when they're needed.

I've seen DC trains run later than 2200 on the DC networks

This must get an award for being the most pointless statement ever!

Your asking me to guarantee what a company will do for ever more? You realise that impossible to guarantee right?

No, but it's interesting to get an "insight" as to what happens now.

And it makes promises about future Thameslink reliability meaningless if we don't know how contingency arrangements will work.

Generally as the situation at present is there isn't first/last trains of the day for the Bedford to Brighton (well Three Bridges) services with some of these all night services not having fresh on drivers but drivers towards the end of their shifts which could be considered first/last trains. However first/last trains to say Brighton has drivers from Brighton depot meaning any issues and trains can be turned around.

Okay, so the first trains *may* be able to be turned round and sent back towards origin. After that it will depend on how the driver duties are diagrammed.

Meanwhile, how timely! Right now, on Thameslink's own live running page:

"Major disruption between London St Pancras International and Elephant & Castle expected until the end of the day

A fault with the electric third rail between London St Pancras International and Elephant & Castle means that trains will be unable to run between these stations until approximately 13:30. "

Will be interesting to see what effect this has on the service.

 

[Bishopstone]

Those who object to off-topic contributions might consider ignoring them, rather than fueling them with detailed rebuttals. Nobody is obliged to contribute, reply, or have the last word.

Hopefully this is on topic:

When will the 700s replace Southern 377s on the weekend Brighton-London Bridge runs?

 

[Class377/5]

Those who object to off-topic contributions might consider ignoring them, rather than fueling them with detailed rebuttals. Nobody is obliged to contribute, reply, or have the last word.

Hopefully this is on topic:

When will the 700s replace Southern 377s on the weekend Brighton-London Bridge runs?

You have a fair point. Perhaps a mod is needed to move the posts?

As for the London Bridge services, its not just weekends but weekdays as well. Current aim is on replacing the Thameslink stock not the Southern borrowed services. Moving to all Brighton to London Bridge services moving to class 700 is, I believe, set for 2017.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Any chance of this weekend's diagrams please? Thanks

 

[Class 466]

Any chance of this weekend's diagrams please? Thanks

I think judging by this evenings disruption, stock is fairly heavily displaced- its difficult to say whether the 700s will end up anywhere near the right place for tomorrow AM.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I think judging by this evenings disruption, stock is fairly heavily displaced- its difficult to say whether the 700s will end up anywhere near the right place for tomorrow AM.

Depending on how many drivers are trained already on the 700s it might also cause problems for the rostering of drivers