Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[SAPhil]

Isn't it mainly because the marked wheelchair spaces (and doors) are set either side of an inter-car gangway, and only one side has the universal toilet. So there has to be additional space on the way to that gangway to reach the next carriage.

Seat plan that was linked earlier in the thread: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbuck007/12837538835/sizes/h/

Crossed with previous post but I'll leave it for the link to the diagrams.

Thanks for that - I hadn't realised that the accessible toilet was in the next carriage. Now I understand!

 

[Wookiee]

Just picked up a bloody 319 from East Croydon to Three Bridges - I didn't realise Thameslink still had some of them left. Not seen one for ages. Are they limited to off-peak now or is it just luck of the draw?

 

[MatthewRead]

Just picked up a bloody 319 from East Croydon to Three Bridges - I didn't realise Thameslink still had some of them left. Not seen one for ages. Are they limited to off-peak now or is it just luck of the draw?

I love the 319's they have been relegated since last year's winter timetable with no fixed Saturday diagrams

 

[spark001uk]

Just picked up a bloody 319 from East Croydon to Three Bridges - I didn't realise Thameslink still had some of them left. Not seen one for ages. Are they limited to off-peak now or is it just luck of the draw?

There is a list of what the 700s are diagrammed this week. May be a few pages back now tho.

 

[TomHaley]

Just picked up a bloody 319 from East Croydon to Three Bridges - I didn't realise Thameslink still had some of them left. Not seen one for ages. Are they limited to off-peak now or is it just luck of the draw?

They still run on the early morning departures from Cauldwell, can't remember if they're ECS to Luton or Bedford though. We've lost a lot though so they are a bit rarer.

 

[Domh245]

Just picked up a bloody 319 from East Croydon to Three Bridges - I didn't realise Thameslink still had some of them left. Not seen one for ages. Are they limited to off-peak now or is it just luck of the draw?

They still operate most of the Wimbledon loop services I think.

 

[cactustwirly]

They still operate most of the Wimbledon loop services I think.

Yes, the majority of Sutton loop and Sevenoaks services are operated by 319s

 

[spark001uk]

So it should be the case by now then, that during a weekday if I were to do some trips between Hampstead / Pancras / Croydon, that it'd be unlikely I get slapped with a 319?

 

[AM9]

So it should be the case by now then, that during a weekday if I were to do some trips between Hampstead / Pancras / Croydon, that it'd be unlikely I get slapped with a 319?

At the moment I think that it would most likely be a 387/1 or 377/5 set, but the chances of a 700 is increasing every month so by the end of the year, most mainline trains and some of the loops will be 700s. This would be in line with the introduction of a new timetable next May.

 

[jopsuk]

Just to bring things together, what's the current schedule for the following milestones:
1. All current Thameslink services running using 700s
2. Automatic operation in the Core
3. testing of 700s on the Great Northern to Cambridge & Peterborough
4. Use of 700s on GN services into Kings Cross
5. GN services start going into the Core

 

[Minstral25]

Just to bring things together, what's the current schedule for the following milestones:
1. All current Thameslink services running using 700s
2. Automatic operation in the Core
3. testing of 700s on the Great Northern to Cambridge & Peterborough
4. Use of 700s on GN services into Kings Cross
5. GN services start going into the Core

I'd also be interested to know when the Southern Horsham to London Bridge services will be taken over by Thameslink and operated by 700's - Long stop date is Dec 2018 but presumably earlier as stock becomes available????

Aligned to that is when the current BML services will be all 700?

 

[samuelmorris]

700114 again this morning - faultless other than the fact that I would have liked to ride a unit other than 114! :P - door release still seems slightly slower than other units but only 3-4 seconds or so, still seems to defeat the object of how fast the doors physically open.
AC acceleration up from CTK to ZFD quite impressive.

 

[Starmill]

Had a run last night on the 1708 from London Blackfriars to Bedford. The power out of St Pancras and as you cross on to the fast lines is absolutely incredible, I've never seen anything like it. It was a very fast train on the Midland Main line too, St Albans, Luton Airport Parkway, Luton, Flitwick & Bedford. We went so quickly on departure from St Albans and through Harpenden on the fast line that we arrived 3 minutes early at Luton Airport Parkway.

I was alright for comfort but it was getting a bit much by Flitwick. The seat is well shaped but you can still feel in your spine when you've been sat there for more than about 40 minutes. The lack of an armrest is pretty inexcusable though. I also thought it was amusing that there was so much free space on that train despite the time of day. There were plenty of seats free the whole time, although there were a few who chose not to take them up. After St Albans it was almost empty. I was impressed that there was a ticket check though between London and St Albans, although the RPIs did have Avantix still!

What I really need for the next trip is a train that might be able to stay on the fast lines between Luton and Bedford. The feel of them at speed is fantastic, and they accelerate like a gust of wind. They are very impressive machines - even though they are in need of some refinement.

 

[AM9]

700114 again this morning - faultless other than the fact that I would have liked to ride a unit other than 114! :P - door release still seems slightly slower than other units but only 3-4 seconds or so, still seems to defeat the object of how fast the doors physically open.
AC acceleration up from CTK to ZFD quite impressive.

That's the first reference I've seen re their performance between two closely spaced stations. I suppose they hit the line limit (is it 50mph?) within seconds of leaving City station.
When the slows use 700s there will be some real opportunities to make up time on the MML. I presume that the May '17 timetable will capitalise on that performance to create more headway on the slows, (maybe even additional paths), even allowing more semi-fasts, - like the peak Kentish Town-Cricklewood-Hendon skips if required.
That will also give them a better chance of keeping clear of the ECML fasts for longer than a Networker or Electrostar would - come the time, especially where the line limit is 100mph or less.

 

[cambsy]

I have just been on the 700's to try them out, Wednesday 31st August, the trains were 700110 10.35 Three Bridges-Bedford, then 700114 13.40 Bedford-Brighton then 700114 again on 16.35 Brighton to Bedford, then I got 19.17 EMT Bedford to St Pancras.

The 700's look decent from the outside, interesting cab design and front, looks bit odd, but distinctive, the interiors are nice and spacious and airy, which different to other stock been on, which I really like, the seats were hard but for the 6 odd hours I sat on them were perfectly comfortable, having a socket, and table would be nice, I think they could have done a mixed fleet, table and sockets for outer suburban and like they are for inner suburban work, I like the PIS which a vast improvement on all other I have seen, was working properly on all the units I rode, I liked watching the loading info and toilet info, really informative. tried the toilets and found them to be perfectly up to standard for a modern train toilet, the door was handle rather than button which was nice touch.

I had wanted to see how they coped with heavy commuter loads in rush hour, which is what they are designed for, and I got my chance coming back from Brighton, it got rammed, the unit handled it with a plomb and brilliantly, it just swallowed up the crowds with ease, no feeling of being crushed like a sardine, space for people to stand, it loaded and un loaded really quickly, short dwell times.

The performance was like a proverbial stabbed rat, boy do they take off, they fly, would say quickest units off the mark I have been on, which helped keep to time, my maximum lateness all day was a couple of minutes, have to say I noticed they sway quite a bit, and was lively, especially under braking, which probably due to suspension needing bedding in, they didn't bounce just swayed side to side a bit, but very sprightly and fun to ride.

I think the 700's are well designed for what they are intended for, which is to handle heavy commuter loadings, quickly and efficiently, they are definitely people swallowers, and excel at it, a nice touch would have been tables and sockets especially as they do quite long journeys, the PIS is a big leap forward and to be applauded, I think they are very fit for purpose, and really good for what they are built to do, of corse in ideal world they could have had a few extra touches, and are not perfect but are a good effort in todays world, if I was to give a report card, I would give a solid B and with a few extra touches and slight retro fits could be an A.

 

[bengley]

That's the first reference I've seen re their performance between two closely spaced stations. I suppose they hit the line limit (is it 50mph?) within seconds of leaving City station.
When the slows use 700s there will be some real opportunities to make up time on the MML. I presume that the May '17 timetable will capitalise on that performance to create more headway on the slows, (maybe even additional paths), even allowing more semi-fasts, - like the peak Kentish Town-Cricklewood-Hendon skips if required.
That will also give them a better chance of keeping clear of the ECML fasts for longer than a Networker or Electrostar would - come the time, especially where the line limit is 100mph or less.

Line Speed from Union Street Jn (South of Blackfriars) to Carlton Road Junction (North of Kentish Town) is 30mph

 

[Crun]

Just to bring things together, what's the current schedule for the following milestones:
1. All current Thameslink services running using 700s
2. Automatic operation in the Core
3. testing of 700s on the Great Northern to Cambridge & Peterborough
4. Use of 700s on GN services into Kings Cross
5. GN services start going into the Core

Any ideas? I'd be interested to know more too.

 

[samuelmorris]

That's the first reference I've seen re their performance between two closely spaced stations. I suppose they hit the line limit (is it 50mph?) within seconds of leaving City station.
When the slows use 700s there will be some real opportunities to make up time on the MML. I presume that the May '17 timetable will capitalise on that performance to create more headway on the slows, (maybe even additional paths), even allowing more semi-fasts, - like the peak Kentish Town-Cricklewood-Hendon skips if required.
That will also give them a better chance of keeping clear of the ECML fasts for longer than a Networker or Electrostar would - come the time, especially where the line limit is 100mph or less.

Goodness me no, it's normally only 30 (though I'm sure I've witnessed 319 drivers slightly exceed this on occasions) but on this occasion I don't think even that was reached as before even the last vehicle would have passed the platform at City the driver was on the brakes again and between there Farringdon it was maybe 15 tops, presumably a signal aspect, I don't know. The 0850 from BFR is slightly too early for me so it has to be delayed for me to get it (which it admittedly often is) - it's the service I used to look forward to getting for it being a 387, and now the same is true for a 700. All the following services for quite some time are 319 operated. On that basis I can only really use this service in times of disruption, albeit minor. Normally I end up using the 0854 to Bedford or 0858 to Kentish Town.

I'd have to try a 700 beyond St Pancras going north to experience what people have been raving about, but it certainly felt pretty brisk climbing out of City Thameslink given how steep the gradient is.

 

[Bald Rick]

That's the first reference I've seen re their performance between two closely spaced stations. I suppose they hit the line limit (is it 50mph?) within seconds of leaving City station.
When the slows use 700s there will be some real opportunities to make up time on the MML. I presume that the May '17 timetable will capitalise on that performance to create more headway on the slows, (maybe even additional paths), even allowing more semi-fasts, - like the peak Kentish Town-Cricklewood-Hendon skips if required.
That will also give them a better chance of keeping clear of the ECML fasts for longer than a Networker or Electrostar would - come the time, especially where the line limit is 100mph or less.

The improved performance will be used to help keep the existing trains run to time; the semi fasts in particular are notorious poor runners.

Incidentally the only way to 'create more headway' is to change the signalling How you use it is a different matter.

 

[Class377/5]

Just to bring things together, what's the current schedule for the following milestones:
1. All current Thameslink services running using 700s
2. Automatic operation in the Core
3. testing of 700s on the Great Northern to Cambridge & Peterborough
4. Use of 700s on GN services into Kings Cross
5. GN services start going into the Core

1) 2017
2) Passenger services May-June 2018
3) Soon
4) early 2017
5) May 2018 with 4tph increased to 8tph IIRC Dec 2018

I'd also be interested to know when the Southern Horsham to London Bridge services will be taken over by Thameslink and operated by 700's - Long stop date is Dec 2018 but presumably earlier as stock becomes available????

Aligned to that is when the current BML services will be all 700?

Horsham should be fmd 2017.

All subject to change.

 

[sd0733]

Just out of interest on Tyrell its showing 2W91 02:40 Bedford-Brighton as altered due to an operational incident tomorrow morning. Its not stopping at Radlett and says 'unable to call due to being formed of a class 700 unit which are unable to stop there'. I Thought the 02:40 has been a 700 for a while so seems odd unless somethings happened there.
The same is now also showing for the 23:10 ex Brighton this evening

 

[D365]

[Great Northern in service] 4) early 2017

Two new fleets for Great Northern within the space of a few months. I'm looking forward to sampling each.

Horsham should be fmd 2017.

All subject to change.

These are the ones being extended to Peterborough, am I right?

 

[sarahj]

Interesting scenes this evening at Gatwick. A 700 to Bedford was having issues on platform 3 when I came into the station with a 442 running a vic service (calling ecr/clj). As I got off and headed to find a train back to Brighton, some of the folks on the 700 were moving over to the 442. Suddenly, I saw the dispatch bats being waved for the 700, doors shut and off it went, leaving some passengers hopping mad.

oh dear.

 

[AM9]

Incidentally the only way to 'create more headway' is to change the signalling How you use it is a different matter.

OK, I'm obviously not using the right terminology. What I meant was that 'snappier' pulling away up to linespeed will clear signals behind quicker, allowing the next train to follow in a shorter time, assuming normal signalling. In the busiest conditions currently, I imagine that the following train has to enter the section in the station more slowly than normal as it would be running on single yellows behind a 319 dragging itself away from the stop.

 

[jon0844]

Interesting scenes this evening at Gatwick. A 700 to Bedford was having issues on platform 3 when I came into the station with a 442 running a vic service (calling ecr/clj). As I got off and headed to find a train back to Brighton, some of the folks on the 700 were moving over to the 442. Suddenly, I saw the dispatch bats being waved for the 700, doors shut and off it went, leaving some passengers hopping mad.

oh dear.

I was just at Gatwick an hour ago. Missed all the fun it seems!

 

[spark001uk]

I was up town yesterday and rode 103 (1W24) and 107 (1W29) while I was there. 107 then went on to do 1W40 back up to Bedford, but it's next two workings of 2W57 & 62 were cancelled due to what was announced as an "operational incident" so not sure what happened exactly. I did also hear of a broken down train at Farringdon during the afternoon, although not sure if that had anything to do with it.

 

[SAPhil]

I had wanted to see how they coped with heavy commuter loads in rush hour, which is what they are designed for, and I got my chance coming back from Brighton, it got rammed, the unit handled it with a plomb and brilliantly, it just swallowed up the crowds with ease, no feeling of being crushed like a sardine, space for people to stand, it loaded and un loaded really quickly, short dwell times.

Did you try standing up yourself? I ask because my experience with a crowded train is that although there is plenty of space to stand, there is considerably less space if you want to hold on to something! On the unit I was on, people were asking others to move slightly so they could grab one of the few handrails. I noticed a few people standing without holding on to anything - which is possible given the trains are very smooth running but in the event of a sudden braking for whatever reason might not be such a good idea. I was in one of the wheelchair accessible carriages - which therefore have a larger standing area but a few extra handrails coming down from the ceiling might be a useful enhancement.

 

[jopsuk]

1) 2017
2) Passenger services May-June 2018
3) Soon
4) early 2017
5) May 2018 with 4tph increased to 8tph IIRC Dec 2018



Horsham should be fmd 2017.

All subject to change.

thankyou- appreciate subject to oh so much change

 

[Class377/5]

I was just at Gatwick an hour ago. Missed all the fun it seems!

Few minutes delay is hardly what Id call a problem.

I was up town yesterday and rode 103 (1W24) and 107 (1W29) while I was there. 107 then went on to do 1W40 back up to Bedford, but it's next two workings of 2W57 & 62 were cancelled due to what was announced as an "operational incident" so not sure what happened exactly. I did also hear of a broken down train at Farringdon during the afternoon, although not sure if that had anything to do with it.

319 failure at Farringdon displaced crews.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

thankyou- appreciate subject to oh so much change

No worries. Will update when/if I can.

 

[Starmill]

The 1612 from London Bridge has been cancelled I'm on a 10-car Turbostar to East Croydon though.