Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[trainmania100]

Okay thanks
Just making sure as £2 pay and display and £3 return to Preston park cheapest station big much to miss it

 

[samuelmorris]

Been viewing the photos and videos submitted by the 'first passengers' with great interest. It is nice to see modern technology finally being used for direct tangible benefits for passengers after all this time and apart from reservations about the DfT spec seating, it looks like a well-engineered product. Time will tell how well of course, but it looks like the Desiro City is going to be a well-received new unit across the board. I'm now very curious to see if the Aventra units on LO and XR will meet expectations, given Siemens will have had almost a year's head start.

One random question - the announcement chime, while quite pleasing, does it go off before automated announcements, or only driver PA? I usually prefer any announcements, automated or otherwise, to be preceded with a tone like that to alert you to listen to it (assuming the information is of any value to you) and take you less by surprise when someone starts talking at you at high volume. However, it is quite lengthy, so it going off all the time between narrow station gaps (e.g. through the core) could be a little irritating after a while?

 

[Class377/5]

The smoothness of the ride is excellent - and the external noise as it pulled away from GTW was impressive in its quietness.

Technically a very , very good train. Impressed on most counts.

(However the passengers, London bound on a 5 car 442 ex Brighton were not - they were 3 deep and the train left folk behind .....)

I'm curious. What weren't you impressed with?

 

[AlexNL]

However, it is quite lengthy, so it going off all the time between narrow station gaps (e.g. through the core) could be a little irritating after a while?

I've been hearing the same chime for more than 20 years (it's the only chime NS uses!) and it doesn't get annoying at all. It's long enough to catch your attention, but short enough to not annoy you.

 

[cjmillsnun]

*deleted

 

[Hophead]

Any chance of services this weekend?

Meaning a 700 running up & down the BML, or just Thameslink in general?

The latter is anyone's guess, but I don't think the new units are planned to head out at weekends just yet.

 

[chriskeene]

I'm curious. What weren't you impressed with?

I was on the first train (10:02 monday).

Agree it was quiet, both air con hiss and engine noise could barely be heard. above head luggage racks could take decent sized bags. space around doors good. seating the same as newer electronstars. Lighting wasn't too bright.

The bad? No plugs, no flip down tables (so handy for coffees and phones) a real pain if you've brought a coffee at the station. The window seat has limited foot space, no wireless. And while i put lighting as a good thing (not too bright), it is also something not quite right. You know how in a room at home, a side light lights a room well, but a central ceiling light can give a unpleasant light, it's like that. not quite right.

 

[trainmania100]

I have just seen 700109 at Brighton

 

[jon0844]

One random question - the announcement chime, while quite pleasing, does it go off before automated announcements, or only driver PA?

Only driver PA, as it never did it on the run to Brighton or back.

I was on the first train (10:02 monday).

Agree it was quiet, both air con hiss and engine noise could barely be heard. above head luggage racks could take decent sized bags. space around doors good. seating the same as newer electronstars. Lighting wasn't too bright.

The bad? No plugs, no flip down tables (so handy for coffees and phones) a real pain if you've brought a coffee at the station. The window seat has limited foot space, no wireless. And while i put lighting as a good thing (not too bright), it is also something not quite right. You know how in a room at home, a side light lights a room well, but a central ceiling light can give a unpleasant light, it's like that. not quite right.

The air con is incredibly quiet. You won't believe it's a Siemens train!! Maybe it wasn't working hard today, but it was fairly warm and humid outside.

The ceiling lights are all LED, so I wonder if they adjust in brightness to outside conditions? In other words, they can get dimmer at night so they aren't so harsh - although I found them quite warm and comforting, not overly cold.

 

[trainmania100]

I must say their acceleration is quite fast
And they sure do sound like desiro's especially the 450s!
The door chime is quite loud also

 

[387star]

Will these go via the arun valley to littlehampto? Or via hove?

Either way presume arun valley a diversion. Also presume thameslin drivers not southern will drive them to La though southern drivers have commissioned them so maybe southern drivers?

Anyway looks great. My favourite train like many others is the 444 so I regard siemens highly. Interesting legroom is commented on as expected similar to a 387 which has amazing legroom. First Class is a decent uograde which passengers will like.

Luggage racks always well designed on desiros

Great traction variety on the bml at the moment especially with two more 387/2s (387222/387206) working tl services

 

[jon0844]

I've got a video uploading now, which has some more footage inside the train and photos. It also includes the walk-through I did before, but speeded up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRGGjQuL7XE

(Should be live by around 11pm at the latest)

 

[trainmania100]

here are some of my photographs

Attached

Also keep an eye out at the link in my signature for a video, coming soon when I get a moment if you are interested

 

[westcoaster]

All we need now is some internal shots of the unit snaking around corners and junctions. Looking straight down the middle.

 

[trainmania100]

I've got a video uploading now, which has some more footage inside the train and photos. It also includes the walk-through I did before, but speeded up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRGGjQuL7XE

(Should be live by around 11pm at the latest)

Great video Jon

 

[Via Bank]

I think I'm on the first *punctual* 700 service!

One 'quirk' is if you press the door opening button before the light goes on you have to let go and press it again when the light goes on. Most 377s are like that, but the 377/6 and 387 allow you to press the button before the light goes on.

Hmm - travelled on it today for one stop and experienced this too. A very annoying regression, especially given past Desiros haven't had a problem with this. Perhaps it's related to the installation of ATO for use on the core? Class377/5, any ideas?

Overall I was very impressed by the train itself. The ride was very smooth, the seats in Standard were nice and lined up with the windows, and it was extremely roomy.

The PIS seems a bit… odd. I'm not quite sure why it consists of two oddly-sized screens rather than one large screen. (Displaying London Underground service status on trains travelling away from London also seems of dubious value, although probably in line with Thameslink's apparent information strategy of "information deluge, whether it's relevant or not.") It also seems to take a while to set up - surely, in this day and age, it should be possible for a train's PIS to handle its whole diagram without needing to be set up every time?

 

[acg5324]

700108 at Sweethill bridge just north of Brighton on the 0932 LBGBTN passing the 1035 BTN BDM

 

[jon0844]

Great video Jon

Can you see it already or was that sarcasm?! Still says processing for me!

 

[ctom_s]

Is it running the same trains tomorrow does anyone know?

 

[Class377/5]

Meaning a 700 running up & down the BML, or just Thameslink in general?

The latter is anyone's guess, but I don't think the new units are planned to head out at weekends just yet.

It's Monday to Friday at present. Hence term soft launch.

I have just seen 700109 at Brighton

700108. 109 has been sat in the depot.

Will these go via the arun valley to littlehampto? Or via hove?

Either way presume arun valley a diversion. Also presume thameslin drivers not southern will drive them to La though southern drivers have commissioned them so maybe southern drivers?

Anyway looks great. My favourite train like many others is the 444 so I regard siemens highly. Interesting legroom is commented on as expected similar to a 387 which has amazing legroom. First Class is a decent uograde which passengers will like.

Luggage racks always well designed on desiros

Great traction variety on the bml at the moment especially with two more 387/2s (387222/387206) working tl services

We are rolling them out on Thameslink at present so no of those routes will see a 700 in service yet. 700110 on test has reached Worthing and Eastbourne but it was a last minute thing and not planned. You'll have to wait for nearer mid 2017.

Southern drivers are the training drivers who also sign Bedford and will generally be looking at this phases introduction only.

All we need now is some internal shots of the unit snaking around corners and junctions. Looking straight down the middle.

It's great fun through the Core!

Is it running the same trains tomorrow does anyone know?

Back to standard diagram tomorrow working the following...

5Z18 09+10 Three Bridges Depot to Brighton
1B28 10:02 Brighton to London Bridge
1B21 11:12 London Bridge to Brighton
1B28 12:32 Brighton to London Bridge
1B31 13:42 London Bridge to Brighton
5Z30 15+08 Brighton to Three Bridges Depot

This will be the same all week folks.

Hmm - travelled on it today for one stop and experienced this too. A very annoying regression, especially given past Desiros haven't had a problem with this. Perhaps it's related to the installation of ATO for use on the core? Class377/5, any ideas?

Overall I was very impressed by the train itself. The ride was very smooth, the seats in Standard were nice and lined up with the windows, and it was extremely roomy.

The PIS seems a bit… odd. I'm not quite sure why it consists of two oddly-sized screens rather than one large screen. (Displaying London Underground service status on trains travelling away from London also seems of dubious value, although probably in line with Thameslink's apparent information strategy of "information deluge, whether it's relevant or not.") It also seems to take a while to set up - surely, in this day and age, it should be possible for a train's PIS to handle its whole diagram without needing to be set up every time?

Sounds like most units and not really an issue for most people.

The PIS is in two separate parts as the smaller screen is a full HD screen capable of displaying video. That way you still clearly can have information displayed ,ike calling patterns while view plays. I don't think they are oddly sized. One is effectively double height on what's an Electrostatic, other is more TV shaped for videos.

Remember the PIS is still early days and can be changed to reflect the changing needs of passengers. However your thoughts that the screens are on info overload due to Thameslink's strategy are untrue. They were order by the DfT so have nothing to do with the TOC. And for the record, FCC lanner to show Tube status. Again it's early days for the PIS. There are many more upgrades coming in the future, don't assume this is the plan for 2018.

 

[jon0844]

Right, the video is now processed and live.

https://youtu.be/sRGGjQuL7XE

 

[Bald Rick]

Back to standard diagram tomorrow working the following...


1B28 10:02 Brighton to London Bridge
1B21 10:12 London Bridge to Brighton

I knew they were quick, but that is impressive....

 

[387star]

Edited

 

[JaJaWa]

Only negative comment is the lack of colour inside , no reading lights in first and the hardest seats in 1st known to humanity.

Seats in First are worse than the 387 seats in First?

 

[MML]

The full width windscreen must make them a pleasure to drive compared to a Class 377 or 387 with the right side vision part obscured by the gangway door.
Any drivers care to comment ?

 

[bengley]

The full width windscreen must make them a pleasure to drive compared to a Class 377 or 387 with the right side vision part obscured by the gangway door.
Any drivers care to comment ?

Yes. Although the view out of Electrostars isn't as bad as you'd think, the 700 does give a pretty fantastic view.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Seats in First are worse than the 387 seats in First?

They are - came back in a GEX 387 for comparison - well , it was the next train back.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just a thought - once they start tricking into service north of the Thames on through workings , I sincerly hope a 12 car 700 drops into an 8 car 319 / 38x diagram. Putting one onto a present 12 car working is probably an easy move (especially those that have a mid-day snooze Brighton) - but this will deprive not just SAC of a peak seat (not many of those frankly) , but also Harpenden and possibly Luton.

 

[jon0844]

Who thinks commuters will move around based on what they see on the screens, relating to how busy each coach is?

Will people walk through, or change their habits, even if it means they'll no longer be right next to the exit/stairs at their destination?

On the midday run, it was quiet, but when it did fill up a little - it was just two coaches of the 12 that showed a change from light green to dark green.

 

[Bishopstone]

Just a thought - once they start tricking into service north of the Thames on through workings , I sincerly hope a 12 car 700 drops into an 8 car 319 / 38x diagram. Putting one onto a present 12 car working is probably an easy move (especially those that have a mid-day snooze Brighton) - but this will deprive not just SAC of a peak seat (not many of those frankly) , but also Harpenden and possibly Luton.

Likewise Haywards Heath and Three Bridges, south of the Thames. This specific issue of seats - NOT overall passenger capacity - is one I and others raised in this thread going back a year or two.

'There will be more trains!', we were told. And now we discover the Tattenham services are off, in favour of a SE route, which has implications for the loading of the remaining TL services over the busiest City-East Croydon section.

Those in the TFL area will enjoy the additional overall train capacity - genuinely a good thing - whilst those starting from Flitwick or Brighton will always get a seat. The dissatisfaction will come from a range of intermediate stations, where the probability of getting a seat will recede. Until the London Bridge core route re-opens, we are talking about journey times of over an hour from Haywards Heath, for example.

Initially, I suppose the 12 car 700s might take-out 2x387/377 diagrams, but the crunch will come when - inevitably - 3x387/377 diagrams are replaced.

 

[AM9]

Likewise Haywards Heath and Three Bridges, south of the Thames. This specific issue of seats - NOT overall passenger capacity - is one I and others raised in this thread going back a year or two.

'There will be more trains!', we were told. And now we discover the Tattenham services are off, in favour of a SE route, which has implications for the loading of the remaining TL services over the busiest City-East Croydon section.

Those in the TFL area will enjoy the additional overall train capacity - genuinely a good thing - whilst those starting from Flitwick or Brighton will always get a seat. The dissatisfaction will come from a range of intermediate stations, where the probability of getting a seat will recede. Until the London Bridge core route re-opens, we are talking about journey times of over an hour from Haywards Heath, for example.

Initially, I suppose the 12 car 700s might take-out 2x387/377 diagrams, but the crunch will come when - inevitably - 3x387/377 diagrams are replaced.

But in the not too distant future, they will be the trains that at least get you there whilst standing when it will be impossible to get on the conventional stock services at all.