Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Domh245]

Yeah that would mean commissioning two a week....

I've figured out that they've got 115 units to introduce, and giving them 1.5 years means that they have to average 1.5 units a week into service. They've already got a few ready and waiting to go, and I suspect that once the first one is in service, the rate of introduction should increase, rather than decrease. It's certainly not impossible, but I think you'd be right to say that its optimistic.

 

[Harbornite]

Perhaps I should have said that the first Class 700 will be in service by 2017. A bit more realistic! My other post was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek but it turned out wrong.

 

[hwl]

I've figured out that they've got 115 units to introduce, and giving them 1.5 years means that they have to average 1.5 units a week into service. They've already got a few ready and waiting to go, and I suspect that once the first one is in service, the rate of introduction should increase, rather than decrease. It's certainly not impossible, but I think you'd be right to say that its optimistic.

1. Final units are required for Dec 18 timetable change so almost 30 months exactly (Dec'17 (Jan '18), May '18, and Dec '18 are the key timetable changes). They'll need about 80-85 for Dec'17 timetable change so a delivery rate of 0.9units/week given (2.).

2. TSGN have 15 units already (may be another recent delivery?)

3. There are sidings and the test track in Germany full of units

4. Siemens can complete about a unit week and have enough translator wagons to enable more deliveries than that.

5. 8 units is about the most TSGN can usefully use for testing and driver training (assuming no overlap between the 2).

6. Pre-Hornsey opening, GN driver training and ECML link opening there is a limit to how many can be delivered without existing stock being cascaded/going ex lease (especially with 387/442 delivery/withdrawal in parallel). And there will be another 29x 387 to find space for temporarily as well before other stock is cascaded.

7. no point in delivering units at this stage if you know they are going to need mods later, far better to keep in Germany

Given the first unit has been complete for nearly 2 years and the stock already built I think the delivery rate will hit the required rate after they the first units enter service.

 

[class387]

Shouldnt be long until they start entering service...surely

Yeah. Siemens say that they are ready (source: Today's Railways) and if they are okay to carry the press in surely they could be used for passengers too. How far off exactly are we from entry into service?

Anyway, Thursday is the last weekday free I have to ride them.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yeah. Siemens say that they are ready (source: Today's Railways) and if they are okay to carry the press in surely they could be used for passengers too.

That depends on your view of the press.
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Anyway, Thursday is the last weekday free I have to ride them.

What, ever?

 

[asylumxl]

What, ever?

They're being incarcerated.

 

[Class377/5]

Our dear friend Class 377/5 has said in another thread to keep an eye on TL this week.

Will they enter service? Will they fail on the first day? Or is he just pulling our leg?

All will be revealed.

Nothing to do with the 700s I'd afraid.

1. Final units are required for Dec 18 timetable change so almost 30 months exactly (Dec'17 (Jan '18), May '18, and Dec '18 are the key timetable changes). They'll need about 80-85 for Dec'17 timetable change so a delivery rate of 0.9units/week given (2.).

All units are expected to be in traffic around the May 2018 timetable change. Don't forget that prior to all the services being through services they actually need more units than December 2018.

2. TSGN have 15 units already (may be another recent delivery?)

17 class 700 in the UK at present, 5x 700/0 and 12x 700/1.

3. There are sidings and the test track in Germany full of units

Numbers rumoured to be in the 30s.

4. Siemens can complete about a unit week and have enough translator wagons to enable more deliveries than that.

Currently Siemens is building a 700 unit a week as its peak production while another line is building the 707s.

5. 8 units is about the most TSGN can usefully use for testing and driver training (assuming no overlap between the 2).

4 units is a lot. That's a significant amount of additional path on a very busy railway.

6. Pre-Hornsey opening, GN driver training and ECML link opening there is a limit to how many can be delivered without existing stock being cascaded/going ex lease (especially with 387/442 delivery/withdrawal in parallel). And there will be another 29x 387 to find space for temporarily as well before other stock is cascaded.

Hornsey opens next month. The 387s won't go into storage. GN 700 driver training will start in a few months time, after the Electrostar training goes full time. However there's a significant first to happen yet (and I'm not talking about service introduction) to happen before GN.

7. no point in delivering units at this stage if you know they are going to need mods later, far better to keep in Germany

Actually the initial deliveries were altered in the UK.

Given the first unit has been complete for nearly 2 years and the stock already built I think the delivery rate will hit the required rate after they the first units enter service.

I think this month is 700101 2nd birthday as a completed unit.

 

[Domh245]

However there's a significant first to happen yet (and I'm not talking about service introduction) to happen before GN.

Is it something to do with some tunnels in the vicinity of Kings Cross?

 

[petersi]

Is it something to do with some tunnels in the vicinity of Kings Cross?

Not unless it's glass works tunnel they have been through the slow line bore of Copenhagen tunnel

Could be Power upgrade work
Could be clearance for the third rail shoes as they are not retractable
Could be some thing else

 

[Domh245]

Not unless it's glass works tunnel they have been through the slow line bore of Copenhagen tunnel

Could be Power upgrade work
Could be clearance for the third rail shoes as they are not retractable
Could be some thing else

I was thinking more about the Canal tunnels

 

[Goldfish62]

Later this spring.

Given that Summer officially starts next week I assume you mean in the next few days.

 

[physics34]

I've heard whispers of the 20th being the first day in service. ??????

 

[swt_passenger]

Not unless it's glass works tunnel they have been through the slow line bore of Copenhagen tunnel

Auto correct strikes again...

 

[theironroad]

I'm very surprised that standard plugs or at least USB charger sockets and wifi weren't part of the base specifications for these and all new trains. I'm not bothered about standard tables, but do find drop down leaf tables very useful for perching my tablet to watch iPlayer or coffee etc. The 444 leaf tables are ideal.

 

[notverydeep]

Given that Summer officially starts next week I assume you mean in the next few days.

The solstice occurs on Monday, 20 June 2016, 23:34 BST!

 

[Deepgreen]

That depends on your view of the press.
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What, ever?

Did you intend to include a gap and comma here?!

 

[petersi]

Auto correct strikes again...

Very true

 

[Bishopstone]

Has it been decided whether the 700s - both 8 and 12 car varieties - will run with one 'first class' section permanently declassified?

 

[swt_passenger]

Has it been decided whether the 700s - both 8 and 12 car varieties - will run with one 'first class' section permanently declassified?

The 12 cars replace 3 x 4 car units with 3 first class sections, so I very much doubt it.

 

[Bishopstone]

The 12 cars replace 3 x 4 car units with 3 first class sections, so I very much doubt it.

Not really a matter of sections, but of seats. There are 30 first class seats in 3x387, and I recall 60-odd in a 700 over the two compartments?

Meanwhile there are less Standard seats, like for like.

Now is a very poor time - particularly at the southern end of the Thameslink network - to be doubling first class seating whilst cutting Standard seats....

 

[Hadders]

A 12 car 365 has 6 first class sections (one at each end of the unit). I think each section has 12 seats, making 72 first class seats on a 12 car train. So 60 odd in. Class 700 is not totally out of kilter.

 

[palmersears]

Can anybody tell me which units are currently sat at Hornsey? Just been passed and saw a plethora of them, but only caught 700110 in terms of specific numbers.

 

[Bishopstone]

A 12 car 365 has 6 first class sections (one at each end of the unit). I think each section has 12 seats, making 72 first class seats on a 12 car train. So 60 odd in. Class 700 is not totally out of kilter.

Fair point, and I now recall old talk from industry sources that the status of one 'first class' section might actually change en route, in the core. Presumably notified on the internal displays, as it will be on the Wimbledon loop where all seats are Standard.

That said, until I'm proved wrong, my prediction is that both the 8s and 12s will enter service with one end permanently declassified.

 

[bengley]

I'm informed that the first 700 will enter service on Monday 20th June.

No idea which diagram(s) this will be on at this stage.

 

[Class377/5]

Can anybody tell me which units are currently sat at Hornsey? Just been passed and saw a plethora of them, but only caught 700110 in terms of specific numbers.

102/112 in Freme Park, 004/110 in Hornsey last I heard.

I'm informed that the first 700 will enter service on Monday 20th June.

No idea which diagram(s) this will be on at this stage.

Plan is for a soft launch so most of you are going to be very disappointed. No major 700 working at all next week.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Plan is for a soft launch so most of you are going to be very disappointed. No major 700 working at all next week.

Are you saying that there won't be one working on Monday?

 

[Class377/5]

Are you saying that there won't be one working on Monday?

I didn't say that. Just lots of you are going to be very disappointed if one does come into service. The no major launch planned for next week.

As for will or won't be in service. No one can guarantee that at present.

 

[TRAX]

Also, impatience won't cook the bacon faster.

 

[jon0844]

Train cancelled due to a shortage of train crew?

 

[asylumxl]

Train cancelled due to a shortage of train crew?

TSGN no longer plan to convey passengers and will be exclusively serving the press between Blackfriars and East Croydon for the foreseeable future.