Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[D365]

The paths will only appear about 24 hours before they run... Pretty sure that's been said at least once before.

I'm just curious to know why he's so interested in every delivery

 

[Goldfish62]

That might be so on an empty train. It certainly won't be true when they enter service and there is, for example, a screaming baby in the adjacent carriage. Needless to say, on a 377 or 365 you wouldn't hear the noise with the doors closed.

I travelled on trains throughout Europe with such an arrangement and it makes no difference to sound levels at all. The division between coaches acts as a natural sound barrier anyway.

 

[bramling]

I travelled on trains throughout Europe with such an arrangement and it makes no difference to sound levels at all. The division between coaches acts as a natural sound barrier anyway.

Unfortunately, experience on the class 378s demonstrates otherwise. I fail to see how an open connection can provide *any* sort of sound barrier, natural or otherwise.

 

[Goldfish62]

Unfortunately, experience on the class 378s demonstrates otherwise. I fail to see how an open connection can provide *any* sort of sound barrier, natural or otherwise.

Well it must be my hearing then. Either that or the fact I wasn't referring to 378s.

 

[stut]

In fairness, the difference could be because people in London LIKE TO SHOUT THEIR CONVERSATIONS much more than anywhere else I've been in Europe (well, maybe not Russia). And that's before we even start on the "my little smasher is bored, and the only possible way to entertain him is an iPad with the sound turned up full and no headphones".

 

[jon0844]

When you have a busy train with open gangways, the general ambient noise makes it quite easy for a baby crying bit to stand out too much unless you're very nearby.

Now if everyone sits and stands in perfect silence and the train stops moving, and the air con is off, then yes it might be annoying.

I am sure it's not going to be a big deal.

 

[stut]

True. I'm more concerned about the seat width, personally.

 

[AM9]

True. I'm more concerned about the seat width, personally.

I'm more concerned (roughly in this order) that the train will:

arrive on time (i.e. not break down/get cancelled)
have enough room to get on past those who love to obstruct the doors, safely
have enough room to sit/stand (according to the time of day) in safety with room for my feet
be of a temperature appropriate for the outside weather
be properly ventilated
be as quiet in use as modern EMU stock, e.g. Electrostars/Desiros
have a correctly working PIS​

then I might consider all of the 'nice to haves' like adjacent windows, tables, wi-fi, even power outlets, but I wouldn't give up any of the above list for the frippery just mentioned.

 

[hwl]

I'm more concerned (roughly in this order) that the train will:

arrive on time (i.e. not break down/get cancelled)
have enough room to get on past those who love to obstruct the doors, safely
have enough room to sit/stand (according to the time of day) in safety with room for my feet
be of a temperature appropriate for the outside weather
be properly ventilated
be as quiet in use as modern EMU stock, e.g. Electrostars/Desiros
have a correctly working PIS​

then I might consider all of the 'nice to haves' like adjacent windows, tables, wi-fi, even power outlets, but I wouldn't give up any of the above list for the frippery just mentioned.

The most sensible post on this thread/subject for quite a while...

 

[bramling]

I'm more concerned (roughly in this order) that the train will:

arrive on time (i.e. not break down/get cancelled)
have enough room to get on past those who love to obstruct the doors, safely
have enough room to sit/stand (according to the time of day) in safety with room for my feet
be of a temperature appropriate for the outside weather
be properly ventilated
be as quiet in use as modern EMU stock, e.g. Electrostars/Desiros
have a correctly working PIS​

then I might consider all of the 'nice to haves' like adjacent windows, tables, wi-fi, even power outlets, but I wouldn't give up any of the above list for the frippery just mentioned.

Note sure what relevance this has, on the GN side the existing trains meet all these requirements quite satisfactorily - except (occasionally) the last. Likewise, a class 377/5, for example, would also more than fit the bill. What on your list did I suggest giving up?

When the 700s come, I'm quite sure users will find the downgrade unacceptable, compared to their existing trains -- especially as it appears some locations (e.g. Welwyn Garden City?) won't be benefiting from the 12-car trains.

The standing capacity might be welcome on the existing Thameslink route, on the GN side mass amounts of standing on the outer-suburban services is not normally common -- and this is on what is largely an 8-car railway.

 

[physics34]

I'm more concerned (roughly in this order) that the train will:

arrive on time (i.e. not break down/get cancelled)
have enough room to get on past those who love to obstruct the doors, safely
have enough room to sit/stand (according to the time of day) in safety with room for my feet
be of a temperature appropriate for the outside weather
be properly ventilated
be as quiet in use as modern EMU stock, e.g. Electrostars/Desiros
have a correctly working PIS​

then I might consider all of the 'nice to haves' like adjacent windows, tables, wi-fi, even power outlets, but I wouldn't give up any of the above list for the frippery just mentioned.

we have been through this several times i know, that I believe if you pay £5k and upwards for your ticket and your journey is for over an hour I consider tables a NEED to have, especially as a place to "put your coffee". A table is a pretty basic requirement. You could now argue in this modern world and you want us to move forward with the times that wifi is now a NEED to have.

I would consider power outlets a "nice to have" although if metro 377s have them then surely they become a NEED to have.

Seats lining up with windows is not a requirement for metro or suburban stock or even semi-long distance services, but you would expect them for intercity type journeys and this is an argument against Pendolinos and voyagers.

Once again though im agreeing with you on the point that open gangways are fine for the 700s....... its just that old chestnut as to whether that the 700s themselves are suitable for longer distance journeys i.e Littlehampton/Brighton

 

[JaJaWa]

They will have WiFi.

 

[physics34]

They will have WiFi.

eventually. its an afterthought though

 

[LBSCR Times]

24 car test trip tonight to Leagrave, and return!

 

[absolutelymilk]

24 car test trip tonight to Leagrave, and return!

As in they are running two twelve-cars separately or as one unit? If its one unit then that would be a joy to behold!

 

[neilm]

As in they are running two twelve-cars separately or as one unit? If its one unit then that would be a joy to behold!

Together it looks like, just saw it at three bridges depo.

 

[Julian G]

As in they are running two twelve-cars separately or as one unit? If its one unit then that would be a joy to behold!

2x700/1s coupled together.
Will be interesting to see where they will do the power-change.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Will the juice rail be able to handle the power draw of 2 700s coupled together?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Will the juice rail be able to handle the power draw of 2 700s coupled together?

There are people paid to ask themselves these questions, but they are seated next to the specifications of the switchgear for each route and can answer definitively.

If it's going ahead, the answer in some form is Yes. Performance may be degraded or other units kept out of the same electrical section.

 

[D365]

Will the juice rail be able to handle the power draw of 2 700s coupled together?

That's the first time I've ever heard 'juice rail' - and I sincerely hope it is the last.

Obviously the electrical engineers will have considered it, but it will usually only been one 700 drawing power (bearing in mind they will only couple for recovery movements), and not at full service speed.

 

[LBSCR Times]

As in they are running two twelve-cars separately or as one unit? If its one unit then that would be a joy to behold!

Both together on one train unless they have to split them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's the first time I've ever heard 'juice rail' - and I sincerely hope it is the last.

Juice rail or con rail.....
Both are used, but only in face to face conversations, not over the phone!

 

[Class377/5]

eventually. its an afterthought though

Passenger wifi yes.

24 car test trip tonight to Leagrave, and return!

Last night 24 car DC testing. All went well.

Will the juice rail be able to handle the power draw of 2 700s coupled together?

Units automatically restrict themselves.

2x700/1s coupled together.
Will be interesting to see where they will do the power-change.

In the Core

 

[Julian G]

Passenger wifi yes.



Last night 24 car DC testing. All went well.



Units automatically restrict themselves.



In the Core

Between City Thameslink and Farringdon if they are planning to raise the pans up on both units?

 

[LBSCR Times]

Between City Thameslink and Farringdon if they are planning to raise the pans up on both units?

The leading pans on both units only.

 

[gtr driver]

That's the first time I've ever heard 'juice rail' - and I sincerely hope it is the last.

Just out of interest, why do you hope that?

 

[A-driver]

That's the first time I've ever heard 'juice rail' - and I sincerely hope it is the last.



Obviously the electrical engineers will have considered it, but it will usually only been one 700 drawing power (bearing in mind they will only couple for recovery movements), and not at full service speed.

Juice rail is a very common term used on 3rd rail lines. Many DMs and trainers on the GN use the term 'juice rail' including one of the trainers who does (or rather did as it dosnt run anymore) the FEP train at Moorgate.

 

[AM9]

we have been through this several times i know, that I believe if you pay £5k and upwards for your ticket and your journey is for over an hour I consider tables a NEED to have, especially as a place to "put your coffee".

The £5K is irrelevant. In fact for Brighton to London Terminals it is £4408. For that you get anytime travel on 240 peak-hour return journeys of 102 miles, that's about 18p per mile. It's about 40% of an anytime ticket and almost as cheap as an off-peak ticket without all its restrictions. Sounds like a well subsidised journey on services that are the most expensive to provide.

Now back to essentials:
There is no way that a table is a NEED to have however much you would like it. Working toilets would be a need to have (which I accidentally left off the essential list) on journey over say 1 hour, (maybe less than that if you drink too much coffee.
Wi-fi is not essential but for some they feel a need for it. The problem is that although relatively easy to provide the hardware, once it is there, then whatever its capacity, (which depends on local reception, that the TOC cannot control) there will be those whose exessive demands will eventually render it less than useful. As many have noted, that well within the life of the class 700s, those passengers who simply must be connected to their internet mother ship will probably make their own provision for reliable 4G (or later generations) of WAN comms.
I can forsee a time, that there could be a cap put on free wi-fi data rates to prevent selfish users denying others basic access. Arguably, if TOCs, bus companies et al continue to increase online information provision at the expense of other means, e.g. verbal, station and train PIS details etc., that a basic wi-fi feed, able to deliver textual information to a full train might be regarded as essential.

 

[The Box Photter]

The £5K is irrelevant. In fact for Brighton to London Terminals it is £4408. For that you get anytime travel on 240 peak-hour return journeys of 102 miles, that's about 18p per mile. It's about 40% of an anytime ticket and almost as cheap as an off-peak ticket without all its restrictions. Sounds like a well subsidised journey on services that are the most expensive to provide.

I can assure you that my season ticket is already well north of £5k. I don't drink coffee/tea on the train, so I'm not that bothered about tables but I would like a reasonably comfy seat. I'm hoping that the distance between the seats is sufficient so that my knees aren't rubbing on the back of the seat in front.

I've already questioned the specification of these "Wundertrains" in this thread and been shot down in flames so many times I now have to wear asbestos gloves when I type.

As I have no alternative way of getting to and from work, I'm keen to experience the train under actual service conditions. When will the fare-paying public get a chance to enjoy the more comfortable standing experience?

 

[Class377/5]

The leading pans on both units only.

Read the brief Pack as that's incorrect.

 

[Julian G]

Video of the 24 carriage train at Blackfriars (700107/108)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaOo3lb1q3s