Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Yabbadabba]

So is that a definite delay to Platform 0 - last we heard about a month ago it was still going ahead in December 2017.

Why can't the FOC's turn round in the middle roads or is the uninspiring layout preventing that?

All I'll say is the Arun Valley re-signalling was in time until three weeks before commissioning as an example.

With the through roads at Redhill only about 12 car long, your not going to get an engine, translator wagon, 12 car 700 and translator wagon in there to run round, let alone most engineers trains that run round, then you need someone safe for the staff to work while splitting & attaching.

 

[Class377/5]

Now looking like coming through the chunnel tomorrow night.

 

[tsr]

All I'll say is the Arun Valley re-signalling was in time until three weeks before commissioning as an example.

With the through roads at Redhill only about 12 car long, your not going to get an engine, translator wagon, 12 car 700 and translator wagon in there to run round, let alone most engineers trains that run round, then you need someone safe for the staff to work while splitting & attaching.

Yes, Redhill is a bit of a no-no for run-round with a train that long. I think you could do it if there was a limit of shunt board just before T479 (Down Redhill) for Up direction movements of light locomotives, the subsidiary on T479 was reinstated, and (maybe) T477 was reconfigured, but you'd clog up the entire station and so you'd only be able to do it between 0145 and 0400 with the Quarry Line also open for through services. Added to that, you'd need to devise a safe system of work for splitting and attaching in the middle of an area of dense third-rail electrification, as you've alluded to. All in all, not terribly practical! (Top-and-tailing could be rather better, though.)

 

[physics34]

Now looking like coming through the chunnel tomorrow night.

The on going issues at Calais causing delay I guess..

 

[Class377/5]

The on going issues at Calais causing delay I guess..

All set for coming through tomorrow now and arriving Friday morning at Three Bridges.

 

[387star]

as we discussed before, with horsham siding being built for 700s ... and considering all Horsham to London Bridge service becoming Thameslinks via the core....as will Tattenhams....and caterhams in the rush, and East Grinsteads in the rush and Littlehamptons....and with southern drivers no longer driving Brighton Expresses, I can see alot a changes with Southern crew.

Who drives the brighton expresses then?

 

[Class377/5]

Who drives the brighton expresses then?

The Brighton Express are replaced by Gatwick Express in December, so those drivers. Training has already started.

 

[Starmill]

The Brighton Express are replaced by Gatwick Express in December, so those drivers. Training has already started.

... or is the Gatwick Express replaced by a Brighton Express?

 

[Class377/5]

... or is the Gatwick Express replaced by a Brighton Express?

No its not. Gatwick Express 387/2 branded services will provide the express services from Decemeber.

 

[southern442]

The Brighton Express are replaced by Gatwick Express in December, so those drivers. Training has already started.

Would it not be more logical to to have Southern drivers do these as they already know the route?

I am not happy about these new services as AFAIK they won't be stopping at EC, which will come as a blow to many customers. The current Brighton expresses are fine, there is nothig wrong with them, all the staff are fully trained, in my opinion they should just keep Gatwick Express as the normal Gatwick Express or just do away with it altogether. It will make travelling to Brighton from East Croydon a lot more difficult unless you are willing to take a slow train and sit on a coffin-shaped ironing board.

 

[Stats]

Would it not be more logical to to have Southern drivers do these as they already know the route?

I am not happy about these new services as AFAIK they won't be stopping at EC, which will come as a blow to many customers. The current Brighton expresses are fine, there is nothig wrong with them, all the staff are fully trained, in my opinion they should just keep Gatwick Express as the normal Gatwick Express or just do away with it altogether. It will make travelling to Brighton from East Croydon a lot more difficult unless you are willing to take a slow train and sit on a coffin-shaped ironing board.

Yeah, it's a lot more difficult to get on a train that only has intermediate stops at Hassocks and Gatwick Airport, or another one that only has intermediate stops at Preston Park, Burgess Hill and Gatwick Airport. :roll: There are things that are a lot more difficult, getting from Brighton to East Croydon in the new timetable is not one of them.

 

[Minstral25]

Would it not be more logical to to have Southern drivers do these as they already know the route?

I am not happy about these new services as AFAIK they won't be stopping at EC, which will come as a blow to many customers. The current Brighton expresses are fine, there is nothig wrong with them, all the staff are fully trained, in my opinion they should just keep Gatwick Express as the normal Gatwick Express or just do away with it altogether. It will make travelling to Brighton from East Croydon a lot more difficult unless you are willing to take a slow train and sit on a coffin-shaped ironing board.

The problem is that the Gatwick Express and the Brighton Express take up 6 paths each way North of Gatwick. The new combined service only takes 4.

East Croydon to Brighton has 4 Thameslink plus 2 Brighton Stoppers per hour so it'll take a bit longer but still plenty of trains.

Clapham Junction though has lost out and I still think that Gatwick Express should stop there as a normal - so every train out of Victoria stops there.

 

[Class377/5]

The problem is that the Gatwick Express and the Brighton Express take up 6 paths each way North of Gatwick. The new combined service only takes 4.

East Croydon to Brighton has 4 Thameslink plus 2 Brighton Stoppers per hour so it'll take a bit longer but still plenty of trains.

Clapham Junction though has lost out and I still think that Gatwick Express should stop there as a normal - so every train out of Victoria stops there.

Er think your maths is out as its currently 4tph Gatwick, 3tph from Brighton (7tph) being made into 2tph Brighton to Vic, 2tph GatEx from Brighton plus 2tph from Gatwick (6tph).

Plan is long term Victoria and London Bridge both get 4tph from Brighton.

 

[Fincra5]

Would it not be more logical to to have Southern drivers do these as they already know the route?

I am not happy about these new services as AFAIK they won't be stopping at EC, which will come as a blow to many customers. The current Brighton expresses are fine, there is nothig wrong with them, all the staff are fully trained, in my opinion they should just keep Gatwick Express as the normal Gatwick Express or just do away with it altogether. It will make travelling to Brighton from East Croydon a lot more difficult unless you are willing to take a slow train and sit on a coffin-shaped ironing board.

I agree.. however the mainline is very congested. Brighton will have 4 TLK an hour (I believe - 2 Bedford, 2 LBG) and the semi-fast that currently exists, that stop at ECR.

 

[Minstral25]

Er think your maths is out as its currently 4tph Gatwick, 3tph from Brighton (7tph) being made into 2tph Brighton to Vic, 2tph GatEx from Brighton plus 2tph from Gatwick (6tph).

Plan is long term Victoria and London Bridge both get 4tph from Brighton.

Of Course - I forgot there is only an hourly Brighton Stopper currently which will become half-hourly in the new timetable.

Thank you for correcting

 

[asylumxl]

I don't really understand why Brighton needs so many trains. I appreciate it has a lot of users, but it seems to get a disproportionate amount of service.

 

[jopsuk]

is it disproportionate if most of the services are busy?

 

[southern442]

I don't really understand why Brighton needs so many trains. I appreciate it has a lot of users, but it seems to get a disproportionate amount of service.

You would be surprised about how many people use the line. After standing in a crowded Brighton stopper for 45 mins, you appreciate the need for 8 tph!

 

[RobShipway]

Not that I have used the Brighton - London line in about 14.5 years, but the last time I did at 7am in the morning I had to stand all the way to London on a 4VEP I believe.

Even with the introduction of the class 377/387 with more trains per hour I do not suppose for a minute that it has improved and can imagine like a few things in that time that it has got worse with larger loads.

 

[Class377/5]

You can still stand all the way from Brighton to Victoria on off peak 8 car services. I've seen it happen a lot. Why I make sure I get there early for a seat. Weekends the 10 cars can leave with some standing.

Although this is well off topic.

700106 should arrive in the UK .

 

[asylumxl]

You would be surprised about how many people use the line. After standing in a crowded Brighton stopper for 45 mins, you appreciate the need for 8 tph!

I use TL daily and have stood for longer.

Perhaps I'm jaded because I've been crammed on single 319s a few too many times .

 

[Yabbadabba]

700106 should arrive in the UK .

Is that with or without extra passengers

 

[D365]

Deleted.

 

[insane_lewis]

I have driven a 700 at Siemens in Germany and will be at bridges tomorrow

 

[A-driver]

Appears there may be delays getting the 700s cleared on the GN route. Some of the platforms won't be long enough for the 12 car versions (including Finsbury Park as a 12car 700 is longer than a 12 365 and a 12 car 365 only just fits of the cab is off the end. Plus the 700s won't have retractable shoes so until various bridges north of St Neots and Royston have been altered to avoid ripping off shoe gear (the reason 313s can't go north of those places) 700s won't be going to Peterborough or Cambridge. According to an article in rail magazine (i can't find how to link to rail articles online so apologies) network rail have admitted they won't have the work completed by the 2018 deadline.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O15070/2015/07/30/advanced

Hopefully it'll make it into the UK tonight.

How long will it be (once they're in the UK) before they start testing?

 

[whoosh]

I think the article in RAIL Magazine said that the introduction of Class 700s would be delayed and wouldn't be first introduced n 2017 as it hoped. One would hope that the issues would be sorted out by 2018, or there won't be any Thameslink Programme happening!

 

[A-driver]

I think the article in RAIL Magazine said that the introduction of Class 700s would be delayed and wouldn't be first introduced n 2017 as it hoped. One would hope that the issues would be sorted out by 2018, or there won't be any Thameslink Programme happening!

Sorry-meant 2017. Depends how long it takes to finance and carry out the works. Raising the track across the bridges at Huntingdon can't be a quick and cheap job at a guess.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I think the article in RAIL Magazine said that the introduction of Class 700s would be delayed and wouldn't be first introduced n 2017 as it hoped. One would hope that the issues would be sorted out by 2018, or there won't be any Thameslink Programme happening!

Did the article state the reason for the delay?

 

[D365]

Did the article state the reason for the delay?

A-driver has just stated an explanation above!

Trying to think how I can explain the Port Holme bridges (south of Huntingdon) as I've walked under them and travelled on them, I can picture where the problem is.

In any case I thought the Canal Tunnels wouldn't be ready for passenger service until 2018?