Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Yabbadabba]

Think the move has been put back 24hrs

That's what my bosses tell me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It looks to me as if it's arranged half set-barrier-half set

As I said before the formation will be, "The 1st five trains will be delivered as Engine, brake force wagons, 4 car 700, brake force wagons, 4 car 700, brake force wagons, 4 car 700 and brake force wagons. Note the fixed formation 12 cars are being slit up for the transit move".

 

[A-driver]

So has a date been set for when three bridges becomes a normal drivers depot.. Spring 2016 was mentioned.. And are they looking to base near 100 drivers there? Presumably blackfriars drivers may transfer as I know many live around there which will then free up space at blackfriars for trainees or will blackfriars downsize?,presumably not given all the new trains and services .. There is also a southern depot there though I believe not a big one

I don't know how quickly they are looking to fill three bridges depot up

I have been told in the near future they will recruit into there for trainees and it is a definite opening which is good news for me in the gtr talent pool.. Three bridges is my neck of the woods so to speak

The near future I would define as within the year and I spoke to someone quite high up at southern who reckons they will recruit this year for the opening next year.. Vacancies are already live for qualifieds

Three bridges is definitely opening, yes. Blackfriars is very unlikely to remain as a depot purely as no driver changeovers will happen in the core. Blackfriars will most likely move to London Bridge and/or kings x, the latter being less likely.

Three bridges has a small southern depot, yes.

When they need to recruit trainees they will start with those of you on the waiting list. I appreciate you are excited and want a start date and that being left 'on hold' is incredibly frustrating but I've already replied to you several times telling you that they need current trainees to move out of the school before it's possible to take more on. There are 4 classrooms at Hornsey and a handful of trainers. They simply can't employ all of you at once. They are taking lots on so once you have worked up the waiting list you will be given a start date. I'd move on for now and forget about it until they get in touch as you can't live day to day sitting by the phone and trying to guess start dates by semi related posts on this forum!

I'm not having a go at you but you really need to calm down. I'm not intending to patronise but if nothing else, patience is a good thing to master if you want to become a train driver.

 

[Class377/5]

Alleged to have one barrier coach in between each carriage but from the photo it doesn't appear to be that way.

It looks to me as if it's arranged half set-barrier-half set

As planned, it's in three four carriage parts.

I wonder when the first trains will start running for passenger use? I suspect the replacements would be the same as the S Stock on the sub surface lines in LU - initially rarer than hen's teeth, then 50-50 and only then a full replacement.

Plan is first passenger service in Feb.

 

[387star]

Three bridges is definitely opening, yes. Blackfriars is very unlikely to remain as a depot purely as no driver changeovers will happen in the core. Blackfriars will most likely move to London Bridge and/or kings x, the latter being less likely.

Three bridges has a small southern depot, yes.

When they need to recruit trainees they will start with those of you on the waiting list. I appreciate you are excited and want a start date and that being left 'on hold' is incredibly frustrating but I've already replied to you several times telling you that they need current trainees to move out of the school before it's possible to take more on. There are 4 classrooms at Hornsey and a handful of trainers. They simply can't employ all of you at once. They are taking lots on so once you have worked up the waiting list you will be given a start date. I'd move on for now and forget about it until they get in touch as you can't live day to day sitting by the phone and trying to guess start dates by semi related posts on this forum!

I'm not having a go at you but you really need to calm down. I'm not intending to patronise but if nothing else, patience is a good thing to master if you want to become a train driver.

Thanks for the reply yeah you are right I need to be patient

I did not realise there were only four classrooms at hornsey and it is interesting Blackfriars may move to London Bridge

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?4,7491940

The caption to the first picture seems to suggest it was taken in the Saar region ("Saarstrecke").
That's not exactly on the direct route from Mönchengladbach to Calais!
Are they trying to avoid Belgium, or is my German geography suspect?

 

[physics34]

Three bridges is definitely opening, yes. Blackfriars is very unlikely to remain as a depot purely as no driver changeovers will happen in the core. Blackfriars will most likely move to London Bridge and/or kings x, the latter being less likely.

Three bridges has a small southern depot, yes.

When they need to recruit trainees they will start with those of you on the waiting list. I appreciate you are excited and want a start date and that being left 'on hold' is incredibly frustrating but I've already replied to you several times telling you that they need current trainees to move out of the school before it's possible to take more on. There are 4 classrooms at Hornsey and a handful of trainers. They simply can't employ all of you at once. They are taking lots on so once you have worked up the waiting list you will be given a start date. I'd move on for now and forget about it until they get in touch as you can't live day to day sitting by the phone and trying to guess start dates by semi related posts on this forum!

I'm not having a go at you but you really need to calm down. I'm not intending to patronise but if nothing else, patience is a good thing to master if you want to become a train driver.

so many rumours about whats happening to train crew and depots etc etc that it is starting to become aggravating for crew at the forementioned depots.

Wish GTR would tell us what is going on... of course maybe they dont know themselves.

Three Bridges, Redhill and Horsham have small depots and it would make sense to merge them into the new Three Bridges depot. A few staff down there are concerned by the possibilty of this. (...although with the new sidings opening at Horsham maybe its viable to keep that depot open.)

 

[A-driver]

so many rumours about whats happening to train crew and depots etc etc that it is starting to become aggravating for crew at the forementioned depots.

Wish GTR would tell us what is going on... of course maybe they dont know themselves.

Three Bridges, Redhill and Horsham have small depots and it would make sense to merge them into the new Three Bridges depot. A few staff down there are concerned by the possibilty of this. (...although with the new sidings opening at Horsham maybe its viable to keep that depot open.)

The truth is that no plan has been finalised. The southern depots are very unlikely to be touched as southern will be kept seperate in many ways although work may be lost to three bridges as it transfers from southern to Thameslink. As has been said before-the franchises need to be kept seperate so that they can easily be re-divided up into smaller franchises once Thameslink is complete.

There is a lot of confusion at managment and director level about the final driver depot plan. It was meant to be a major part of our (our being ex FCC drivers) pay talks this year as we have a condition that all facets of work are equally shared (ie no FCC depot is purely mainline or suburban but all have a fairly equal mix of work). The company proposed reviewing that as part of Thameslink as they don't believe there will be enough 700 work on the GN fo all drivers to sign them so want different depots sticking to a smaller area of the work. This didn't get off the ground at the pay talks simply because managment didn't have any idea what they ultimately wanted and the union obviously were not going to sell that condition without knowing what the company plans. It will be revisited in 18months instead. But they have stated that 2 new driver depots will definitely be opening at three bridges and Hornsey.

 

[387star]

This is all most interesting

I take it kings cross drivers are likely to transfer to hornsey
. Will that be a large depot?

I suppose not all Horsham and Redhill drivers would want to move to three bridges depending where they live now. If they (ex fcc and southern) are to remain as separate as possible is the process for southern qualifieds applying to transfer to thameslink quite different to ex fcc drivers simply looking to move depots?

Do you know how many southern drivers are based at three bridges? I understand no guards are based there. Do they just sign brighton to London?

Is the new thameslink driver depot within the new depot buildings and what is the consensus on the accommodation?

 

[jon0844]

Seems the migrants just couldn't wait!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33689473

Some 2,000 migrants tried to enter the Channel Tunnel terminal in Calais on Monday night in an attempt to reach the UK, operator Eurotunnel has said.
Eurotunnel is facing a daily struggle with migrants who attempt to smuggle themselves into Britain, sometimes with fatal consequences.
"It was the biggest incursion effort in the past month-and-a-half," said a spokesman for Eurotunnel.
The incident caused serious delays to Eurotunnel train services on Tuesday.
Passengers were held up for about an hour on the British side and 30 minutes on the French side, French news agency AFP reports.

 

[Domh245]

Looking at the train formation from the German forum, it appears to be running with the 700 segments reversed (ie with driver cab facing inwards) - which I am guessing is to do with reformation of the train at three bridges. As for the delay, I am assuming that this is to do with delays through the tunnel (to do with migrants) - and I can only hope that the consist is stabled securely whilst awaiting a path through the tunnel.

Out of interest, what will (eventually) be hauling it through the tunnel - a 92?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Do they have to have a "brake force wagon" every so many coaches? Why don't they have the 700s in their final formation?

 

[Domh245]

There are the brake force wagons (the blue containers) and then the barrier wagons. The brake force wagons are there because the 700 itself will be running without brakes (no power, no compressor, no air, no brakes) and the train as a whole will have to have an appropriate brake force for it's weight, hence the large number. When running with the braking wagons, it is better to have the wagons distributed so that the train will decelerate at the same rate throughout the train.

And as Yabbadabba said:

With the 1st five units I believe they will not have any active brakes or any way to control them, so they need to have enough other vehicles in the formation to allow for braking. After that they should have a translator vehicles ready that will allow the engines brake demands to run through the units brakes and operate them.

 

[Class377/5]

Looking at the train formation from the German forum, it appears to be running with the 700 segments reversed (ie with driver cab facing inwards) - which I am guessing is to do with reformation of the train at three bridges. As for the delay, I am assuming that this is to do with delays through the tunnel (to do with migrants) - and I can only hope that the consist is stabled securely whilst awaiting a path through the tunnel.

Out of interest, what will (eventually) be hauling it through the tunnel - a 92?

The formation had been loaded so it's easier to shunt at Three Bridges.

Consist of 700106 (ignoring the wagons) from that image is 409106, 410106, 411106, 412106, 405106, 406106, 407106, 408106, 401106, 402106, 403106 & 404106.

The carriage numbers of a 700 are easy to work out as its 4 plus carriage number plus three digit unit number so coach 7 of 700122 is 407122. Hope that makes sense.

66 will do the UK part as 92s are barred through Redhill.

 

[Skimble19]

I see that the logos on the 700 have been changed to the actual Thameslink logo rather than the previous text based logo that was on them..

 

[AM9]

The formation had been loaded so it's easier to shunt at Three Bridges.

Consist of 700106 (ignoring the wagons) from that image is 409106, 410106, 411106, 412106, 405106, 406106, 407106, 408106, 401106, 402106, 403106 & 404106.

The carriage numbers of a 700 are easy to work out as its 4 plus carriage number plus three digit unit number so coach 7 of 700122 is 407122. Hope that makes sense.

OK that's easy enough. How will the 8-car units be numbered, will they go from 1-8 or will there be gaps (e.g. Nos. 4,5,8 & 9) so that interchangeability between the cars is maintained?

 

[Class377/5]

OK that's easy enough. How will the 8-car units be numbered, will they go from 1-8 or will there be gaps (e.g. Nos. 4,5,8 & 9) so that interchangeability between the cars is maintained?

Gaps with coaches 4, 5, 8 & 9 missing as you correctly stated.

 

[physics34]

The truth is that no plan has been finalised. The southern depots are very unlikely to be touched as southern will be kept seperate in many ways although work may be lost to three bridges as it transfers from southern to Thameslink. As has been said before-the franchises need to be kept seperate so that they can easily be re-divided up into smaller franchises once Thameslink is complete.

There is a lot of confusion at managment and director level about the final driver depot plan. It was meant to be a major part of our (our being ex FCC drivers) pay talks this year as we have a condition that all facets of work are equally shared (ie no FCC depot is purely mainline or suburban but all have a fairly equal mix of work). The company proposed reviewing that as part of Thameslink as they don't believe there will be enough 700 work on the GN fo all drivers to sign them so want different depots sticking to a smaller area of the work. This didn't get off the ground at the pay talks simply because managment didn't have any idea what they ultimately wanted and the union obviously were not going to sell that condition without knowing what the company plans. It will be revisited in 18months instead. But they have stated that 2 new driver depots will definitely be opening at three bridges and Hornsey.

as we discussed before, with horsham siding being built for 700s ... and considering all Horsham to London Bridge service becoming Thameslinks via the core....as will Tattenhams....and caterhams in the rush, and East Grinsteads in the rush and Littlehamptons....and with southern drivers no longer driving Brighton Expresses, I can see alot a changes with Southern crew.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Have the units made it to the UK yet? Just done a quick image and video search on google (last 24 hrs search), no pics or videos of them in the UK

 

[D365]

Have the units made it to the UK yet? Just done a quick image and video search on google (last 24 hrs search), no pics or videos of them in the UK

I think the real question is, have they made it to England without any surprises onboard!

Most likely is that they will want to be discrete about it as there are more deliveries to be made.

 

[swt_passenger]

Have the units made it to the UK yet? Just done a quick image and video search on google (last 24 hrs search), no pics or videos of them in the UK

The service was cancelled according to RTT, but this had been pointed out by earlier posters.

 

[Bald Rick]

Tomorrow at earliest.

 

[Class377/5]

Its in France on the other end of the Tunnel.

 

[talldave]

Is it known what route it'll take through Kent? I could take my nice Canon lens out for a walk.

 

[03_179]

Is it known what route it'll take through Kent? I could take my nice Canon lens out for a walk.

Dollands through Tonbridge and via Herne Hill, Clapham Juntion , East Croydon.

Best take the camera as well as the lens.

 

[talldave]

Dollands through Tonbridge and via Herne Hill, Clapham Juntion , East Croydon.

Best take the camera as well as the lens.

..but that makes it soooo heavy!!!

 

[thomson787]

Think I might take a little trip to Swanley or Eynesford when it passes through.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Think I might take a little trip to Swanley or Eynesford when it passes through.

You'll probably be best going to Orpington or Bromley if it comes through Tonbridge - you could have a long wait at Swanley/Eynsford...

But wouldn't be be better to go the old SER route to Three Bridges via Tonbridge and Redhill? Guess there's a reason to come via sarf London

 

[Yabbadabba]

You'll probably be best going to Orpington or Bromley if it comes through Tonbridge - you could have a long wait at Swanley/Eynsford...

But wouldn't be be better to go the old SER route to Three Bridges via Tonbridge and Redhill? Guess there's a reason to come via sarf London

The reason might have something to do with it being 560m (27 coaches) long including engine, class 700, brake force and translator wagons. A little bit too long to run round at Redhill, not no mention if and when the Redhill platform 0 works start, we will lose the run round facility until completion. Which I believe is the point hanging things up and delaying the project at the network change document level as one of the FOCs is protesting about the loss of the run round for such a long time.

 

[Minstral25]

The reason might have something to do with it being 560m (27 coaches) long including engine, class 700, brake force and translator wagons. A little bit too long to run round at Redhill, not no mention if and when the Redhill platform 0 works start, we will lose the run round facility until completion. Which I believe is the point hanging things up and delaying the project at the network change document level as one of the FOCs is protesting about the loss of the run round for such a long time.

Wow, thats a long train. Presumably that will be a bit shorter when the coaches have operational brakes later and maybe then they can turn round at Redhill.

So is that a definite delay to Platform 0 - last we heard about a month ago it was still going ahead in December 2017.

Why can't the FOC's turn round in the middle roads or is the uninspiring layout preventing that?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The reason might have something to do with it being 560m (27 coaches) long including engine, class 700, brake force and translator wagons. A little bit too long to run round at Redhill, not no mention if and when the Redhill platform 0 works start, we will lose the run round facility until completion. Which I believe is the point hanging things up and delaying the project at the network change document level as one of the FOCs is protesting about the loss of the run round for such a long time.

Of course, I forgot Tonbridge trains arrive at Redhill from the south and need to run round....