Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Bishopstone]

I note the Railnews article states:

'It was also revealed at Krefeld that some First Class areas on the new trains will be declassified from time to time, particularly in the ends facing away from London, 'according to market demand'.

Which rather begs the question why they weren't built with appropriate First Class capacity, without resorting to a de-classification fiasco on day one.

Also, 'the end facing away from London' changes somewhere between City Thameslink and Farringdon, surely....

 

[Class377/5]

I note the Railnews article states:

'It was also revealed at Krefeld that some First Class areas on the new trains will be declassified from time to time, particularly in the ends facing away from London, 'according to market demand'.

Which rather begs the question why they weren't built with appropriate First Class capacity, without resorting to a de-classification fiasco on day one.

Also, 'the end facing away from London' changes somewhere between City Thameslink and Farringdon, surely....

Poor reporting. Believe it's rear of choosen trains (off peak) from starting point hence the away from London commenting.

As for appropriate first class capacity, well that depends on your point of view. Don't forget the Thameslink 377s have half the first class the Southern 377s does. Sigificant but important difference on the future routes.

 

[Bishopstone]

Poor reporting. Believe it's rear of choosen trains (off peak) from starting point hence the away from London commenting.

But in the off peak I would have thought there would be ample Standard accommodation? Why pay for First Class, off peak, if you can sit in the same seating in the declassified end?

 

[Class377/5]

But in the off peak I would have thought there would be ample Standard accommodation? Why pay for First Class, off peak, if you can sit in the same seating in the declassified end?

Because in peak first class is already busy whets as sampling the first class for 'free' on declassified trains may encore some to upgrade. Especially leisure travellers. I think its being done this way, not that I know for sure if I'm honest.

 

[edwin_m]

Declassifying will have to be managed very carefully to avoid either providing an excuse for fare-dodgers or entrapping people who sit in an active first class section thinking it is declassified.

Sticky labels probably won't cut it as anyone can move them and with the trains being DOO staff at termini would have to remember to add/remove them at the correct end. As these trains are being equipped with a comprehensive information system the obvious answer would be a screen at eye level next to the entrance to the first class saloon indicating whether it is declassified or not. But has anyone specified such a thing?

 

[jon0844]

I can imagine a new train could be built with electronic signs to signify if any particular section is deemed as first class. You could then do this per carriage/compartment, or even individual rows of seats if you really wanted.

It's all a matter of cost.

Certainly it would be easy to do by a TM on some trains, while on others the seating could be managed based on the diagram so automatically set by the driver when setting up the CIS.

Personally, I'd sooner have first class remain all day and simply have TOCs enable cheaper off-peak upgrades to first class. If you could tap a smartcard on a train to upgrade on an ad hoc basis, even better. Train abnormally busy? Just upgrade there and then, with the price dependent on the time of day like any other ticket.

 

[Bishopstone]

I am going to make a prediction on the 8-car sets:

The first class at one end will be permanently declassified either before they enter service, or within 18 months of that date.

 

[Bald Rick]

I am going to make a prediction on the 8-car sets:

The first class at one end will be permanently declassified either before they enter service, or within 18 months of that date.

If Ladbrokes had a book on that, I'd be down there with a wedge of cash.

 

[neilm]

If Ladbrokes had a book on that, I'd be down there with a wedge of cash.

I am going to make a prediction on the 8-car sets:

The first class at one end will be permanently declassified either before they enter service, or within 18 months of that date.

Count me in as well, how easy would it be to lengthen these 8 car units? Or are they operating on routes that have 8 car platforms anyway?

 

[Class377/5]

Count me in as well, how easy would it be to lengthen these 8 car units? Or are they operating on routes that have 8 car platforms anyway?

8 cars for for services limited to 8 cars. Elephant & Castle is such a station and not cheap to extend.

All the 700 can be extended or detended. For example the 700 have coach numbering for 12 cars even if it's an 8. As such all cabs are either coach 1 or 12 in the numbering system. An 8 car 700/0, IIRC, number wise has coaches 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11 & 12.

The Desiro City platform is designed to be recongifured in any length from 3 to 12 coaches. Flexibility is one of the key points Siemens designed the family for.

 

[jeromeroberts]

Video: New Thameslink Trains Revealed


http://londonist.com/2015/04/video-new-thameslink-trains-revealed.php

 

[swtandgw]

Video: New Thameslink Trains Revealed


http://londonist.com/2015/04/video-new-thameslink-trains-revealed.php

I can just about hear the traction motors in this video, and it sounds a lot different from the usual UFO sound we're used to hearing from the Desiros currently on our metals!

 

[D365]

I'm quite sure I've heard the 'UFO' sound in a Siemens/Thameslink launch video.

 

[swtandgw]

I'm quite sure I've heard the 'UFO' sound in a Siemens/Thameslink launch video.

It was dubbed in post-production. If you listen carefully in the Londonist preview towards the cab bit, the cadences associated with the UFO sound are not present, and sound more constant, like an Electrostar or a Javelin.

 

[Domh245]

It did sound rather like the standard Siemens inverter kit as found on other desiros in Europe, and on the various electric velaros

 

[MCR247]

At around 2:40 he seems to press the button to open the accessible toilet fairly hard - I don't think a Bombardier unit would've coped

 

[fgwrich]

At around 2:40 he seems to press the button to open the accessible toilet fairly hard - I don't think a Bombardier unit would've coped

Er... I was thinking the same!

Perhaps he's been reading our comments on the Bombardier vs Siemens build quality on here?

 

[BantamMenace]

First time i've had a good look at a train where you can walk right through with wide gangways and no end doors and i have to say im impressed.

As a Northerner i hope Northern's new build has the same, would make ticket inspection a lot easier and i'd feel a lot safer knowing i could see right up and down the train.

 

[samuelmorris]

One assumes the Desiro City being a generation newer than the Desiro UK means they're possibly using the same sort of technology the Hitachi traction packages use? Either way sounds like it'll be a lot less obtrusive in the core tunnels than the previous gen

That article doesn't really address the 'but we've already got some new trains, and they don't look like those' point though does it? A lot of people are going to be left wondering what the 387s are about - we know of course, but I thought at least he could touch on that somewhere :P

 

[D365]

The Class 332/333 builds don't have the 'UFO sound' do they? But strictly speaking, I don't know if they are considered to bear the 'Desiro' name.

 

[swt_passenger]

The Class 332/333 builds don't have the 'UFO sound' do they? But strictly speaking, I don't know if they are considered to bear the 'Desiro' name.

Hasn't it also been explained a while ago that the discrete frequencies used in the steps of the traction converter are software selectable, and the Desiro UK uses different frequencies in AC and DC supply areas?

So the audible frequency noises heard on a 450 or 444, if different to a 350, are only because they're tailored to the area they operate in, and a 700 working on DC may eventually sound exactly the same. Maybe we should wait a few months...

 

[sarahj]

Hasn't it also been explained a while ago that the discrete frequencies used in the steps of the traction converter are software selectable, and the Desiro UK uses different frequencies in AC and DC supply areas?

So the audible frequency noises heard on a 450 or 444, if different to a 350, are only because they're tailored to the area they operate in, and a 700 working on DC may eventually sound exactly the same. Maybe we should wait a few months...

Why wait a few months when we can go through more pages of speculation. Why change the habit of a lifetime.

Trains open right through are fine, until you get a screaming kids, or a person being 'tired and emotional' and you cannot get away...

 

[AM9]

Trains open right through are fine, until you get a screaming kids, or a person being 'tired and emotional' and you cannot get away...

You might be very unlucky, be right at the end of one coach and have them at the nearest end of the next. On average, if there at all, they are more likely to be about 60ft away. They could be in the same coach so no different from any other modern stock.
Or of course, they could not be there at all like most of the time, unless you are a 'screaming child magnet'.

 

[Class377/5]

In the videos I've seen (not public) they sound the same. Inside the units you don't hear that much. Gangways are good at reducing noise entering into the carriages.

 

[hulabaloo]

Now I've seen those seats I now know I've got less than a year to lose at least six stone

 

[swtandgw]

The Class 332/333 builds don't have the 'UFO sound' do they? But strictly speaking, I don't know if they are considered to bear the 'Desiro' name.

They're actually a joint CAF production with a lot more in common with the Irish CxKs than the Desiros, and the traction package sounds pretty much identical to what's used in the Electrostars.

 

[samuelmorris]

They're not quite the same sound but close enough that I couldn't possibly describe the difference - if I was played some audio of them and not told what they were I'd quite possibly get them mixed up but yes, what part of them is CAF and what part is Siemens exactly? That plus being 5 years older than any Desiro UK would also make a difference.
Anyway, as interesting as that discussion is, not really very important I suppose

 

[fgwrich]

They're not quite the same sound but close enough that I couldn't possibly describe the difference - if I was played some audio of them and not told what they were I'd quite possibly get them mixed up but yes, what part of them is CAF and what part is Siemens exactly? That plus being 5 years older than any Desiro UK would also make a difference.
Anyway, as interesting as that discussion is, not really very important I suppose

Bodywork by CAF - Hence the only difference between them and the NIR fleet are wider door running boards, same body - and Siemens Traction Equipment.

 

[Mikey C]

First time i've had a good look at a train where you can walk right through with wide gangways and no end doors and i have to say im impressed.

As a Northerner i hope Northern's new build has the same, would make ticket inspection a lot easier and i'd feel a lot safer knowing i could see right up and down the train.

It's standard for new TfL trains now (S stock, 378s and 345 Crossrail) I don't know if it's standard for other new "commuter" stock going forward? Will the SW trains Desiro Cities have through gangways for example?

 

[NotATrainspott]

It's standard for new TfL trains now (S stock, 378s and 345 Crossrail) I don't know if it's standard for other new "commuter" stock going forward? Will the SW trains Desiro Cities have through gangways for example?

ScotRail's new Hitachi AT200 trains will have the same full-width gangways, so I imagine all new electric-only commuter rolling stock will have them.