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Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

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asylumxl

asylumxl

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jonmorris0844 said:
It won't be ideal for people going from Bedford to Brighton, or Peterborough to wherever, but it's probably the only way to cope with the huge numbers of people.

The problem, as ever, is that all of this is to cope in the peaks - and that means rather empty, seatless, open spaces the rest of the time.
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I don't mind the space at all, it is rather pleasant in my opinion, but I do think it would be nice to have doors between the carriages to reduce track noise. It is surely not beyond comprehension to have a system where the doors stay open when the train is busy.

Do we know if any staff are going to be there to answer public questions? I would like to pick their brains a bit.
 
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jon0844

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In Sweden, the X60s are fully open and run routes that are probably comparable to, say, Moorgate to Letchworth (circa 50 minutes I think). That might vary on some routes of course, but I think it's a fair estimate.

They have open gangways and I can't say I've ever thought of them as being particularly noisy, but then again, they're not going at really high speeds and making regular stops.

Perhaps they have pretty good sound insulation (although they're not made by Siemens, so they're probably not ideal comparisons)?

I'm sure there will be staff on hand, from TOCs to Network Rail to Siemens.
 
Class377/5

Class377/5

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asylumxl said:
I don't mind the space at all, it is rather pleasant in my opinion, but I do think it would be nice to have doors between the carriages to reduce track noise. It is surely not beyond comprehension to have a system where the doors stay open when the train is busy.

Do we know if any staff are going to be there to answer public questions? I would like to pick their brains a bit.
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Yes their will be staff as I've got colleagues going.

As for the space between the carriages, the 378s and S Stock aren't that bad. However I do acknowledge the speed difference.
 
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Looks to have a smart PIS telling you where platform exits are and all the other features. Big improvements in that regard.

P.s I previously accidentally posted the link to the pictures that had already been posted by mistake. I had meant to do it earlier, but had no internet. Now I do, it's finally posted, but too late. My apologies.
 
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bramling

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asylumxl said:
I'm still sceptical about the sliding doors and wide, open gangways. I can't imagine noise levels being pleasant on 100mph runs lasting more than a few minutes (e.g. St Pancras to St Albans).

Can't help but think the train is designed for the tiny minority which use the train for cross-London journeys rather than the majority traveling in to London on the MML, BML and ECML (in the future).
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Looks positively awful all round. Simply not an improvement for people making journeys in to KX or Victoria / London Bridge and used to 365s or 377s. Looks like a heavily downgraded version of the 380s, which themselves are not particularly pleasant to travel on IMO.

If the final design ends up anything like this, no more seaon ticket, and my car will be seeing increased use!
 
asylumxl

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bramling said:
If the final design ends up anything like this, no more seaon ticket, and my car will be seeing increased use!
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You are lucky then if you have that choice. I can't afford to pay for all the running costs of a car, the petrol and the congestion charge each day.

Sparce as it is, it is still an improvement from the 319s interior anyway.
 
Class377/5

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asylumxl said:
Sparce as it is, it is still an improvement from the 319s interior anyway.
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The interior will seem sparse compared to current stock but that's because its not got signs, route maps and info stickers like in service units have.
 
transmanche

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asylumxl said:
Sparce as it is, it is still an improvement from the 319s interior anyway.
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And even if it appears sparse; I guess we need to compare the number of seats per service, rather than seats per carriage. (If anyone knows, I'd be interested in finding out.)
 
asylumxl

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Just thought of another question. How will the PIS be able to differentiate what side the doors will open? For example, what if it uses one of the crossovers in the core to use the "wrong" platform or perhaps goes in to platform 3 at Luton going south?

I can't see it using the platform beacons as surely that would announce the information far too late.
 
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asylumxl said:
Just thought of another question. How will the PIS be able to differentiate what side the doors will open? For example, what if it uses one of the crossovers in the core to use the "wrong" platform or perhaps goes in to platform 3 at Luton going south?

I can't see it using the platform beacons as surely that would announce the information far too late.
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By 2018 the train will have a Connected Driver advisory system, and the signalling system (strictly speaking, the Traffic Management system) will tell the train where it is routed.
 
Loki

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Are we going to get information on the stations how full each coach is? I know the Desiro City supports this system but will the stations be equipped also?
 
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Loki said:
Are we going to get information on the stations how full each coach is? I know the Desiro City supports this system but will the stations be equipped also?
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Possibly, and possibly via an app. Trouble is in the TL core it will be next to useless, as the turnover of passengers is so high. The last thing you want is 300 people dashing to the front of the train only for the system to update and them all dash to the back.
 
Aictos

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bramling said:
Looks positively awful all round. Simply not an improvement for people making journeys in to KX or Victoria / London Bridge and used to 365s or 377s. Looks like a heavily downgraded version of the 380s, which themselves are not particularly pleasant to travel on IMO.

If the final design ends up anything like this, no more seaon ticket, and my car will be seeing increased use!
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It's a massive improvement on existing trains that are used, the number of times the doors between the carriages on a 365 jam is unbelievable and as to the 380s, they are decent trains which do the job well they are certainly a improvement on the trains they replaced with better interiors such as air conditioning, CIS and power sockets.

Personally I think rather then give the Class 700 a chance you're jumping the gun and stating you don't like it without giving it a chance which is unfair.

KX03HZY said:
I'm unimpressed that there is not tables, armrests, power points or wifi. These are not a good deal for commuters. 319/2's and 377/5's are better
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It does have power sockets although in First Class, plus wifi can always be added later by the TOC if need be.
 
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The passenger information screens remind me of the flat screens that popped up at Railtrack/Network Rail stations around 2000. They seemed so futuristic... until they were distorted by the sun's glare and suffered screen issues. The dot matrix replacements were far better. I know you only have to look at how far TV and computer monitor resolution has come to see the improvements from 14 years ago but I hope these new displays are thoroughly tested.

The unveiling has certainly sparked some media interest. I was impressed by the amount of photos on the SE1 webiste's Flickr account. I'm not sure if these are the same as the ones mentioned earlier - it could be a standard media release. http://www.flickr.com/photos/se1website/sets/72157640249883405/
 
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jonmorris0844 said:
It won't be ideal for people going from Bedford to Brighton, or Peterborough to wherever, but it's probably the only way to cope with the huge numbers of people.

The problem, as ever, is that all of this is to cope in the peaks - and that means rather empty, seatless, open spaces the rest of the time.
Click to expand...

Going to have a look tomorrow, but initial impressions are that they'll be noisy and draughty and probably very rattly quite soon after they've been in service a while. Once again the trains have been designed to act as pseudo-tube trains for passengers only wanting to travel through the Core.

Looks like a backward step for longer distance commuters after the relative comfort of the 377s. Where will all the airport passengers' luggage go? I'll tell you where, in the "corridor" areas at the end of the carriages, thus making movement up and down the train difficult.

How long will it be (assuming MML electrification goes ahead) before the Thameslink franchise is extended northwards to Wellingborough and Kettering/Corby. Anyone fancy a trip from Corby to Brighton on a glorified London Overground train?
 
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to confirm on the fleet composition, I've seen that the fleet consists of 1140 carriages in 115 units, yes? I make that 55 12-car units and 60 8-car? Are there options, depot/stabling extension space etc to lengthen any 8-car units should passenger numbers continue vastly upwards? Of course, this is a huge increase in carriages- I appreciate they'll be taking on some current Southern & Southeastern routes, and there's extra GN services proposed, but very roughly those 1140 replace the 319, 317, 321 & 377 fleets at FCC, which is only 548 carriages.
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Meanwhile the unsuitability of the stock? Quite agree. If only NSE hadn't made Thameslink Bedford-Brighton! If it had been scoped instead, from the off, as a Crossrail type route then there would be less compromise (take note anyone suggesting Crossrail extensions)
 
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