Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Hadders]

I used Thameslink for seven years in the 1990s, when the off-peak service to St Albans consisted of 4tph fast from King's Cross Thameslink, and 4tph all stations.

So, in theory, I should never have had to be on the platform at King's Cross Thameslink for more than 15 minutes. The reality was somewhat different, and it wasn't uncommon to be there for half an hour or more.

A half-hourly service will be much worse, of course.

It's quite obvious the 2tph service (no more than today) will be erratic at times. Generally nowadays the down service from King's Cross tends to be reliable. On the rare occasions when the service is delayed leaving King's Cross, you have the train to sit in if it's there, or worse-case scenario can use facilities on the concourse. So Thameslink gives a double hit - more chance of delay, and a less pleasant environment to wait.

Why bother with this nonsense when I can just drive?

Given the potential increase in interchanging passengers at Finsbury Park, Farringdon and Blackfriars the station facilities really need to be looked at.

Farringdon doesn't even have public toilets and Finsbury Park's are best described as 'for emergency use only'. Not good if your waiting with the family on a weekend for a train home after a day out.

 

[jon0844]

Aren't the platforms at Finsbury Park getting lifts eventually, or was that delayed? I can't keep track (sic) of what's happening there. A lot of work, but no posters giving details/times (that I've seen).

The comment about the toilets is spot on. Horrid, but very little room to put them anywhere else. And when they reinstated the old island (plat 1/2), they didn't install new toilets there.

 

[SteveHFC]

Been following the discussions about the new Class 700s with interest, but today was the first time I experienced them.

Travelled from Leagrave to Blackfriars on an 8 car (didn't note which one, will have a look on Trust when I get to work tomorrow) and then back to Leagrave on 700115 - 12 car. (With two short trips to/from Denmark Hill on 319s in between - travelling to football at Dulwich Hamlet).

I was impressed with them. I've seen the comments about the seats, but me and my partner, both us are on the larger side, thought they were comfortable and had no issues with leg/foot room.

The PIS seemed to be working correctly, the announcements were clear, and the train was comfortably warm.

Thought the ride was smooth, and noticably quieter than the 319s/377s/387s.

Overall a really good experience.

 

[urpert]

Just had a closer look at the line diagram on a 700. It shows Kings Cross - Kings Lynn / Peterborough (as the FCC map used to), London Bridge - East Grinstead, Horsham and Littlehampton (all future Thameslink routes so fair enough), but also a dotted line to Maidstone East with the legend 'Future Thameslink route, see separate publicity for details of a commencement date.' Quite surprising as I didn't think anything had been firmly decided about Maidstone / Dartford services yet.

Pics are here: https://flickr.com/photos/22888989@N03/sets/72157677282258940

 

[jon0844]

Shouldn't Southern services be marked as 'limited services'?

 

[BelleIsle]

I see that they are looking at providing additional waiting rooms at Luton. Is this just to improve the passenger experience or is it an incentive to get people to move along the full length of the platform and make proper use of the longer trains?

 

[Class377/5]

Just had a closer look at the line diagram on a 700. It shows Kings Cross - Kings Lynn / Peterborough (as the FCC map used to), London Bridge - East Grinstead, Horsham and Littlehampton (all future Thameslink routes so fair enough), but also a dotted line to Maidstone East with the legend 'Future Thameslink route, see separate publicity for details of a commencement date.' Quite surprising as I didn't think anything had been firmly decided about Maidstone / Dartford services yet.

Pics are here: https://flickr.com/photos/22888989@N03/sets/72157677282258940

Shouldn't Southern services be marked as 'limited services'?

The maps are for what is expected (bar Kings Lynn) from May/June 2016 what the 700/717s will running by May 2018 when the maps will be updated (as Thameslink will be running the 20tph service then). London Bridge to Horsham/Littlehampton/East Grinstead are all expected to go over to 700 operation in the next 18 months (alongside the GN services).

The Maidstone East service was announced at franchise award as being via Catford. GTR has proposed changing this but the map doesn't show the Blackfriars - London Bridge - Bromley South, partly as it doesn't currently exist anyway.

BTW here's a decent copy of the map.

Class 700 Line Diagramhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/, on Flickr

 

[jon0844]

Why is the Thameslink line from London Bridge to Brighton so much thicker than the others?!

 

[Class377/5]

Why is the Thameslink line from London Bridge to Brighton so much thicker than the others?!

It's just the quality of the image that's all. The PDF is fine, its just a low quality jpeg.

 

[asylumxl]

Why is the Thameslink line from London Bridge to Brighton so much thicker than the others?!

Cos real routes are thick.

 

[TheDavibob]

Interesting that it doesn't show Cambridge North as existing, despite the fact that it will exist by the time these trains make it to the Great Northern lines. Makes sense, as they can't show a station that doesn't exist currently, but I'm surprised it isn't there as a greyed out station or anything (with a footnote).

 

[urpert]

Excellent, thanks.

 

[Deepgreen]

It's just the quality of the image that's all. The PDF is fine, its just a low quality jpeg.

It doesn't look like a quality issue - all the surrounding lines in the same part of the image are much narrower and enlarging the 'Flickr' image shows the Brighton (purple) line as still being much thicker. Odd.

 

[Domh245]

It doesn't look like a quality issue - all the surrounding lines in the same part of the image are much narrower and enlarging the 'Flickr' image shows the Brighton (purple) line as still being much thicker. Odd.

Could just be to depict the core route from the other routes.

 

[Class377/5]

It doesn't look like a quality issue - all the surrounding lines in the same part of the image are much narrower and enlarging the 'Flickr' image shows the Brighton (purple) line as still being much thicker. Odd.

That's because I, no-one else, made a low quality jpeg which I've uploaded, I did state this clearly. So yes it is because of a quality issue, its a conscious choice on my part.

 

[Verulamius]

If I recall we have a new set of diagrams for Monday? More round the loop?

 

[Class377/5]

If I recall we have a new set of diagrams for Monday? More round the loop?

And if by magic, the new diagrams...

8 car 700/0 diagrams 404/409 are not in use. This means we have 9x 8 cars and 11x 12 car diagrams.

The diagrams are now getting more complex with alterations on Friday's.

TB401
5W78 03+38 Three Bridge Depot to Three Bridges
1W78 03.46 Three Bridges to Bedford
1V83 06.14 Bedford to Sutton via Wimbledon
2V12 08.08 Sutton to St Albans via Mitcham
5K37 09+31 St Albans to St Albans via Center Siding
2O37 09.44 St Albans to Sutton via Mitcham Junction
2O38 11.07 Sutton to Luton via Wimbledon
2V67 13.14 Luton to Sutton via Wimbledon
2V68 15.08 Sutton to St Albans via Mitcham
5K93 16+29 St Albans to St Albans via Center Siding
2O93 16.44 St Albans to Sutton via Mitcham
2O94 18.11 Sutton to Luton via Wimbledon
2V41 20.20 Luton to Sutton via Wimbledon
5O48 22+12 Sutton to Streatham via Mitcham
5O48 22+31 Streatham to Sutton via Mitcham
2O48 22.47 Sutton to St Bedford via Wimbledon
5G48 01+10 Bedford to Bedford CS

TB402
5W01 05+20 Down Yard to Brighton
1W04 05.44 Brighton to Bedford
1W17 08.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W28 11.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W45 14.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W52 17.05 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W61 19.40 Bedford to Brighton
5W62 22+22 Brighton to Three Bridges Depot

TB403 Monday Only
5G87 06+20 Bedford CS to Bedford
1H87 06.34 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G63 08.02 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
2W27 09.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W36 12.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W43 15.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W54 18.05 Brighton to Bedford
1W67 21.10 Bedford to Brighton
5W67 23+53 Brighton to Brighton Down Yard

TB403
5W86 02+04 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
2W86 02.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
5G86 03.31 Bedford to Bedford CS
5G87 06+20 Bedford CS to Bedford
1H87 06.34 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G63 08.02 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
2W27 09.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W36 12.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W43 15.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W54 18.05 Brighton to Bedford
1W67 21.10 Bedford to Brighton
5W67 23+53 Brighton to Brighton Down Yard

TB404
Not Used

TB405
5G77 02+08 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W77 02.20 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W92 04.50 Three Bridge to Bedford
1E64 07.16 Bedford to Sevenoaks
2E75 09.42 Sevenoaks to Kentish Town
5J75 11+11 Kentish Town to Cricklewood Depot
5A33 11+42 Cricklewood Depot to West Hampstead
2E33 11.50 West Hampstead to Sevenoaks
2E51 13.30 Sevenoaks to West Hampstead
5J51 14+57 West Hampstead to Cricklewood Depot
5J47 15+13 Cricklewood Depot to West Hampstead
2E47 15.20 West Hampstead to Sevenoaks
1E98 17.00 Sevenoaks to Bedford
5G98 19+24 Bedford to Bedford CS
5G83 23+34 Bedford CS to Bedford
2W83 23.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W83 02+12 Three Bridges to Three Bridges Depot

TB406
5G95 07+32 Bedford CS to Bedford
1V95 07.44 Bedford to Sutton via Wimbledon
2V24 09.38 Sutton to St Albans via Mitcham Junction
5K49 10+59 St Albans to St Albans via Center Siding
2O49 11.14 St Albans to Sutton via Mitcham Junction
2O50 12.37 Sutton to Luton via Wimbledon
2V79 14.44 Luton to Sutton via Wimbledon
1V80 16.38 Sutton to Bedford via Mitcham Junction
2V29 18.36 Bedford to Sutton via Wimbledon
2V30 20.42 Sutton to St Albans via Mitcham Junction
5J30 22+01 St Albans to Cricklewood South Sidings via Center Siding

TB407
5H19 06+58 Cricklewood South Sidings to Luton
2E19 07.46 Luton to Sevenoaks
5E19 09+48 Sevenoaks to Sevenoaks CHS
5Z11 10+05 Sevenoaks CHS to Kentish Town
5Z12 11+38 Kentish Town to Sevenoaks CHS
5Z13 13+37 Sevenoaks CHS to Blackfriars
5Z14 14+58 Blackfriars to Sevenoaks CHS
5E63 16+25 Sevenoaks CHS to Sevenoaks
2E63 16.30 Sevenoaks to Bedford
2O35 19.14 Bedford to Sutton via Mitcham Junction
2O36 21.17 Sutton to Bedford via Wimbledon
5G36 Bedford to Bedford CS via North End Siding

TB408 FSX
5G90 07+00 Bedford CS to Bedford
1H91 07.12 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G84 08.41 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
1J99 10.20 Bedford to Elephant & Castle
5E99 11+32 Elephant & Castle to Bellingham Sidings
3E73 16+00 Bellingham Sidings to Elephant & Castle
1G73 16.22 Elephant & Castle to Bedford
5G25 17+40 Bedford to Bedford via North End Siding
2V25 17.54 Bedford to Sutton via Wimbledon
2V26 20.12 Sutton to Bedford via Mitcham Junction
1W73 22.22 Bedford to Three Bridges

TB408 FO
5G90 07+00 Bedford CS to Bedford
1H91 07.12 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G84 08.41 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
1J99 10.20 Bedford to Elephant & Castle
5E99 11+32 Elephant & Castle to Bellingham Sidings
3E73 16+00 Bellingham Sidings to Elephant & Castle
1G73 16.22 Elephant & Castle to Bedford
5G25 17+40 Bedford to Bedford via North End Siding
2V25 17.54 Bedford to Sutton via Wimbledon
2V26 20.12 Sutton to Bedford via Mitcham Junction
1W73 22.22 Bedford to Brighton
5W73 01+14 Brighton to Brighton Down Yard

TB409
Not Used

TB410
5A93 05+50 Cricklewood South Sidings to West Hampstead
2L93 05.58 West Hampstead to Orpington
1G61 07.28 Orpington to Bedford
5G62 09+31 Bedford to Bedford CS
5G03 15+35 Bedford CS to Bedford
1E03 15.54 Bedford to Sevenoaks
1E67 18.30 Sevenoaks to Bedford
5G67 21+02 Bedford to Bedford CS

TB411
5H91 05+52 Bedford CS to Luton
2E91 06.42 Luton to Bromley South
1E65 08.18 Bromley South to Bedford
5G65 10+13 Bedford to Bedford CS
5G07 16+21 Bedford CS to Bedford via North End Siding
1E07 16.56 Bedford to Sevenoaks
2E75 19.30 Sevenoaks to West Hampstead
5J75 20+57 West Hampstead to Cricklewood South Sidings

TB501
5Y91 02+14 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
2W91 02.40 Bedford to Brighton
1B00 05.47 Brighton to London Bridge
1B05 07.12 London Bridge to Brighton
1B10 08.27 Brighton to London Bridge
1B15 09.42 London Bridge to Brighton
1B22 11.02 Brighton to London Bridge
1B25 12.12 London Bridge to Brighton
5B25 13+29 Brighton to Down Yard
5B38 14+42 Down Yard to Brighton
1B38 15.02 Brighton to London Bridge
1B41 16.12 London Bridge to Brighton
1B48 17.32 Brighton to London Bridge
1B51 18.42 London Bridge to Brighton
5W51 20+06 Brighton to Three Bridges Depot

TB502
5W93 05+10 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
2W94 05.20 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W13 07.34 Bedford to Brighton
1W24 10.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W41 13.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
1W92 15.59 Three Bridges to Bedford
2W61 18.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W66 20.43 Three Bridges to Bedford
5Y68 23+00 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB503
5Y11 06+32 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W11 06.58 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W22 09.11 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W29 11.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W40 14.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W57 17.20 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W62 19.43 Three Bridges to Bedford
5U62 22+00 Bedford to Cauldwell Depot

TB504
5W02 05+07 Brighton Down Yard to Brighton
1W02 05.30 Brighton to Bedford
2W21 08.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W30 10.59 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W37 13.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W96 16.35 Brighton to Bedford
5Y96 19+03 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB505 FSX
2W84 01.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
5Y84 03+46 Bedford to Bedford via Jowett Sidings
1W01 04.16 Bedford to Brighton
1W82 07.22 Brighton to Bedford
1W23 10.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W34 13.05 Brighton to Bedford
1W45 15.50 Bedford to Brighton
1W56 18.35 Brighton to Bedford
5Y69 21+14 Bedford to Bedford via Bedford St Johns Goods Loop
1W71 21.52 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W71 00+15 Three Bridges to Three Bridges Depot

TB505 FO
2W84 01.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
5Y84 03+46 Bedford to Bedford via Jowett Sidings
1W01 04.16 Bedford to Brighton
1W82 07.22 Brighton to Bedford
1W23 10.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W34 13.05 Brighton to Bedford
1W45 15.50 Bedford to Brighton
1W56 18.35 Brighton to Bedford
5Y69 21+14 Bedford to Bedford via Bedford St Johns Goods Loop
1W69 21.40 Bedford to Brighton
5W69 00+25 Brighton to Brighton Down Yard

TB506
5W06 05+10 Three Bridges Depot to Brighton
1W06 06.06 Brighton to Bedford
2W23 08.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W32 11.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W39 14.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W80 17.01 Brighton to Bedford
5Y80 19+33 Bedford to Jowett

TB507
5Y93 07+04 Jowett to Bedford
1W93 07.30 Bedford to Brighton
1W22 10.05 Brighton to Bedford
2W39 12.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W48 15+09 Three Bridges to Three Bridges via Depot
2W48 15.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
2W59 18.00 Bedford to Gatwick
2W64 20.18 Gatwick to Bedford
2W79 22.40 Bedford to Three Bridges

TB508
5G85 05+46 Cauldwell Depot to Bedford
1W85 06.18 Bedford to Brighton
1W18 09.05 Brighton to Bedford
2W35 11.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W44 14.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W51 17.08 Bedford to Brighton
1W62 20.03 Brighton to Bedford
2W81 23.10 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W81 01+36 Three Bridges to Three Bridges Depot

TB509
5Y19 07+22 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
2W19 07.48 Bedford to Gatwick Airport
2W26 10.08 Gatwick Airport to Bedford
1W33 12.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W90 15.35 Brighton to Bedford
1W55 18.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W66 21.05 Brighton to Bedford
5Y66 23+50 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB510
5Y02 03+15 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
2W03 03.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W80 06.57 Brighton to Bedford
1W21 09.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W32 12.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W49 15.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
1W84 18.07 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W65 20.40 Bedford to Brighton
2W80 23.37 Brighton to Bedford
5Y80 02+44 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB511
5Y87 01+08 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
2W87 01.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W90 04.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W89 06.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W20 09.35 Brighton to Bedford
5Y35 12+16 Bedford to Bedford via Jowett Sidings
1W35 13.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W94 16.02 Brighton to Bedford
1W57 18.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W68 21.33 Brighton to Bedford
5Y69 00+18 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How far off are we of any TL routes being purely class 700s?

 

[Class377/5]

How far off are we of any TL routes being purely class 700s?

I did work it out as 52% of all carriages are 700's come Monday. Working out the service % is a tad harder, especially when you consider 8 car 700's replacing 4 car 319 services (which still exist).

Also I'm not sure of the full plan for the Brighton to London Bridge services that are Thameslink run using Southern DC only 377 fleet. Those going over are harder to work out as they are tied into the currently Southern only Brighton to London Bridge services in peak where they attach to other Southern services.

Services through the Core will be all 700's in a matter of months. Then it's time to roll out the 700s on GN and Southern services that are to transfer.

 

[spark001uk]

Talked about in the past I know, but what's the story nowadays on 1st class? Is it always rear declass? Front? Or does it depend on the service now?

 

[neilm]

Talked about in the past I know, but what's the story nowadays on 1st class? Is it always rear declass? Front? Or does it depend on the service now?

Always the rear, there are no stickers just pops up on the pis.

 

[Class377/5]

Talked about in the past I know, but what's the story nowadays on 1st class? Is it always rear declass? Front? Or does it depend on the service now?

Same as it has always been, rear of the train is declassified on routes with first class.

Routes with first class include (but not limited too)

Bedford to Brighton
Bedford to Three Bridges
Bedford to Sutton - north of Blackfriars
Bedford to Sevenoaks - north of Blackfriars

Routes with both end declassified include (but not limited too)

Luton/St Albans to Sutton
West Hampstead/Kentish Town/Blackfriars to Sevenoaks

Always the rear, there are no stickers just pops up on the pis.

You cannot put stickers up as it changes direction as its always rear of the train regardless of direction.

 

[neilm]

Same as it has always been, rear of the train is declassified on routes with first class.

Routes with first class include (but not limited too)

Bedford to Brighton
Bedford to Three Bridges
Bedford to Sutton - north of Blackfriars
Bedford to Sevenoaks - north of Blackfriars

Routes with both end declassified include (but not limited too)

Luton/St Albans to Sutton
West Hampstead/Kentish Town/Blackfriars to Sevenoaks




You cannot put stickers up as it changes direction as its always rear of the train regardless of direction.

Yep I was just letting them know it is just on the PIS and not anywhere else.

 

[spark001uk]

OK cool cheers. I'll keep an eye on the PIS too then. Assuming it's working that is!

 

[Class377/5]

OK cool cheers. I'll keep an eye on the PIS too then. Assuming it's working that is!

It only shows from inside the first class its declassified. For offical confirmation its best to ask the Twitter team as you can get answers fairly quickly then.

 

[Bishopstone]

First Class is also declassified on all Thameslink Brighton Mainline services (south of the core) until further notice.

 

[Class377/5]

First Class is also declassified on all Thameslink Brighton Mainline services (south of the core) until further notice.

Thought that was only on strike dates?

 

[Bishopstone]

Thought that was only on strike dates?

No, 'overtime ban' days (ie every day) as well, as of today. Per the Southern website and several social media responses.

 

[Class377/5]

No, 'overtime ban' days (ie every day) as well, as of today. Per the Southern website and several social media responses.

Ah ok, I hadn't actually seen that.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Looks like the Kent numbers will be increasing significantly as of the new diagrams. I notice that most of them are currently the AM/PM peak services, presumably because most of these services are done by TL drivers throughout as opposed to the daytime services that are usually driven by SE drivers south of Blackfriars.

These are also the services that would happen to benefit most from the capacity improvements vs the 319s that have been running them up to now.