Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[TRAX]

Siemens aren't known to mess around with their manufacturing.

 

[Goldfish62]

700019 entered service on Friday, having only been delivered on the 7th September, that's probably the quickest turnaround yet...

I went on it on Friday as well. Thought it was exceptionally clean inside and out.

 

[AM9]

I went on it on Friday as well. Thought it was exceptionally clean inside and out.

They are usually like that, - until you let the great British public loose on them. *

That's the inside of course!

 

[jon0844]

They are usually like that, - until you let the great British public loose on them. *

That's the inside of course!

Maybe GTR should make them all ECS in the next timetable change.

With the way things have been this year, some people won't notice the difference but will appreciate some consistency.

 

[ScotGG]

Are there any general targets eg 30 in use by Dec, 50 by February etc?

I know there's now 31 in the UK and are there are 8 being used daily at the moment?

 

[Class377/5]

So is this because of the walk through design or are first class compartments in other train stocks dangerous? (Serious if possibly ignorant question )

Other designs are different. The 700 suck the smoke out and supply fresh air to both the people aboard and the fire. This means the 700s will be more damaged by a fire but give people the extra time to escape by giving them air to breath.

700019 entered service on Friday, having only been delivered on the 7th September, that's probably the quickest turnaround yet...

Believe the plan is for similar commissioning times to the 387 with currently (roughly) one unit a week being passed for service.

Are there any general targets eg 30 in use by Dec, 50 by February etc?

I know there's now 31 in the UK and are there are 8 being used daily at the moment?

The whole fleet has a plan with dates for individual diagram introduction and what it releases. However its not widely spread document, partially because its fluid and the dates can change in either direction.

BTW its currently 9 units, 7x 12 car and 2x 8 cars in service on weekdays.

 

[swt class 450]

I went on 700 002 yesterday on the 22:22 Bedford - Brighton 01:03 service yesterday. I have ridden on the 12 coach units 32 times but this was the first time that i have been on an 8 coach unit. Other than the length and unit numbers the 700/0s and 700/1s seem to be basically identical.

Once all of the 700s are in service will the 8 coach units regulary come to Brighton or will it just be the 12 coach units? I thought the 8 coach units are for the Sutton Loop and Sevenoaks services while the 12 coach units are for the Brighton services?

 

[96tommy]

Does anybody have any 700 diagrams for this Saturday? I have got a free day in London that is all so might as well get some ticked off.

 

[KTrain82]

Rode one for the first time on Saturday between E.Croydon and Purley; very nice ride, could hardly hear any outside sounds which made for a peaceful journey!

 

[Class377/5]

I went on 700 002 yesterday on the 22:22 Bedford - Brighton 01:03 service yesterday. I have ridden on the 12 coach units 32 times but this was the first time that i have been on an 8 coach unit. Other than the length and unit numbers the 700/0s and 700/1s seem to be basically identical.

Once all of the 700s are in service will the 8 coach units regulary come to Brighton or will it just be the 12 coach units? I thought the 8 coach units are for the Sutton Loop and Sevenoaks services while the 12 coach units are for the Brighton services?

Current allocations are an interim period. However overnight Bedford to Three Bridges will be 8 cars as they will call all stations on the MML.

 

[Deepgreen]

I went on 700 002 yesterday on the 22:22 Bedford - Brighton 01:03 service yesterday. I have ridden on the 12 coach units 32 times but this was the first time that i have been on an 8 coach unit. Other than the length and unit numbers the 700/0s and 700/1s seem to be basically identical.

Once all of the 700s are in service will the 8 coach units regulary come to Brighton or will it just be the 12 coach units? I thought the 8 coach units are for the Sutton Loop and Sevenoaks services while the 12 coach units are for the Brighton services?

Wow - keeping an accurate tally! 700002 failed at Redhill yesterday on the 1719 to Bedford, with passengers trapped on board when the driver could not release the doors. It took at least 15 minutes to resolve, with the usual utter lack of information on the platform.

 

[jaig]

Wow - keeping an accurate tally! 700002 failed at Redhill yesterday on the 1719 to Bedford, with passengers trapped on board when the driver could not release the doors. It took at least 15 minutes to resolve, with the usual utter lack of information on the platform.

What a great photo!!

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

 

[asylumxl]

Wow - keeping an accurate tally! 700002 failed at Redhill yesterday on the 1719 to Bedford, with passengers trapped on board when the driver could not release the doors. It took at least 15 minutes to resolve, with the usual utter lack of information on the platform.

"Teething problems".

 

[AM9]

"Teething problems".

Probably, wait to see what the actual failure was.

 

[Deepgreen]

"Teething problems".

Indeed - but wasn't the exhaustive German and UK testing/mileage accumulation/training supposed to solve this issue before entering service (or at least make it far rarer than it has been)?

 

[AM9]

Indeed - but wasn't the exhaustive German and UK testing/mileage accumulation/training supposed to solve this issue before entering service (or at least make it far rarer than it has been)?

You are presuming that the failure was incipient in the class 700 design as delivered from Germany. That ignores all the unexpected issues that may be down to UK rail infrastructure.

 

[Deepgreen]

You are presuming that the failure was incipient in the class 700 design as delivered from Germany. That ignores all the unexpected issues that may be down to UK rail infrastructure.

Indeed true, but being unable to open the doors while berthed at a platform much longer than the train does not sound to me like a UK infrastructure problem - I could be wrong. In any case, the number of failures on the 700s since introduction must surely call into question the value of the supposedly exhaustive testing, including on the very routes on which they run?

 

[jon0844]

How many 700s have actually broken down? It always seems to be door related issues thus far.

I realise Joe Public doesn't care either way and it's just semantics - but have any had mechanical or electrical problems besides the doors?

 

[Deepgreen]

How many 700s have actually broken down? It always seems to be door related issues thus far.

I realise Joe Public doesn't care either way and it's just semantics - but have any had mechanical or electrical problems besides the doors?

They certainly cared yesterday when they couldn't get off their train for a quarter of an hour! I think most of the failures I have seen reported have been doors, which, after all, are very important components that should be tested as thoroughly as anything else. Indeed, given the known effects of door failures on the service, there may be a case for an enhanced testing regime for them on new stock to ensure reliability.

 

[jon0844]

Aren't a lot of the door problems software/driver related though?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

They certainly cared yesterday when they couldn't get off their train for a quarter of an hour! I think most of the failures I have seen reported have been doors, which, after all, are very important components that should be tested as thoroughly as anything else. Indeed, given the known effects of door failures on the service, there may be a case for an enhanced testing regime for them on new stock to ensure reliability.

Although still missing compartment stock from years ago, I must admit to have been rather more relieved to have been stuck on a open-plan 700 a few weekends ago for the best part of an hour and a half (in a tunnel). Much less claustrophobic and free to walk up and down the entire length of the train without having to find vestibule doors in the dark etc or sitting in a small compartment not knowing what the person next to you might do in a confined space

 

[Deepgreen]

Aren't a lot of the door problems software/driver related though?

No idea, but if they are, I would have expected software to be tested properly and checked in trial running and driver training to have been effective such that problems would be rare on entry to service. Once again, though, it seems that new stock cannot be introduced without problems, despite the supposedly rigorous testing regime beforehand. Perhaps it would be wise to amend the pre-service work to take account of the problems found with this stock (and all the previous stocks which have encountered door issues).

In any case, the public will just see yet another type of new train being brought in which appears to them to be unfit for purpose.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Although still missing compartment stock from years ago, I must admit to have been rather more relieved to have been stuck on a open-plan 700 a few weekends ago for the best part of an hour and a half (in a tunnel). Much less claustrophobic and free to walk up and down the entire length of the train without having to find vestibule doors in the dark etc or sitting in a small compartment not knowing what the person next to you might do in a confined space

Sounds like that, at least, was not a door failure (if it was even a problem at all on your train).

 

[asylumxl]

Personally, I'd accept the issue as teething problems if it were a minute or two delay to open the doors, as per many occasions in the core, but it took 15 minutes to get them open. That's excessive and not acceptable. I do hope that behind closed doors questions are being asked.

 

[jon0844]

I do hope that behind closed doors questions are being asked.

And they don't open those doors until they find a fix either!

 

[asylumxl]

And they don't open those doors until they find a fix either!

Some say they door never opened and they're still in the meeting...

 

[swt class 450]

Wow - keeping an accurate tally! 700002 failed at Redhill yesterday on the 1719 to Bedford, with passengers trapped on board when the driver could not release the doors. It took at least 15 minutes to resolve, with the usual utter lack of information on the platform.

Yes i normally try to keep records of all the units that i travel on. Im surprised it took at least 15 minutes just to open the doors! Was it an electrical fault? I cant think of what else would prevent the doors from opening?

 

[Class2ldn]

Well some of the trains are rejecting any chance of opening the doors, today at Blackfriars one pulled in, tried to release doors, no option to override it and had to result to desperate measures. The board in the sb direction is in the wrong place and yet they haven't tried to rectify it, just let every train have an issue.
Poor planning and minimal testing it seems.

 

[Bald Rick]

Wow - keeping an accurate tally! 700002 failed at Redhill yesterday on the 1719 to Bedford, with passengers trapped on board when the driver could not release the doors. It took at least 15 minutes to resolve, with the usual utter lack of information on the platform.

It didn't fail as such, as I caught it later on in its journey*. The driver announced a problem with the doors - he was having to open them manually at each stop. The PIS wasn't working either, and as the ASDO is linked to the PIS that suggests the problem. Also I think the train had an amended calling pattern south of the river, due to the strike' which may have contributed to the PIS not working if there was t the right code for it.

I gather Siemens are making software updates.


* for me at least it was a bonus; it was about 9/10 minutes late and I had turned up for the next one, so I actually got home 5 minutes earlier than expected. Good old 700s, beating expectations!

 

[Class377/5]

Indeed true, but being unable to open the doors while berthed at a platform much longer than the train does not sound to me like a UK infrastructure problem - I could be wrong. In any case, the number of failures on the 700s since introduction must surely call into question the value of the supposedly exhaustive testing, including on the very routes on which they run?

May not sound like it but the infrastructure is increasingly connected to door release. You'd be surprised just how many stations already rely on infrastructure hardware to open the doors on 377/387s let alone the newer stock with higher standards demanded.

Fact that this was a one off (not heard of any other issues at Redhill or the unit) suggest other factors at play.

 

[carriageline]

No idea, but if they are, I would have expected software to be tested properly and checked in trial running and driver training to have been effective such that problems would be rare on entry to service. Once again, though, it seems that new stock cannot be introduced without problems, despite the supposedly rigorous testing regime beforehand. Perhaps it would be wise to amend the pre-service work to take account of the problems found with this stock (and all the previous stocks which have encountered door issues).

In any case, the public will just see yet another type of new train being brought in which appears to them to be unfit for purpose.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---




Sounds like that, at least, was not a door failure (if it was even a problem at all on your train).

Unfortunately, you can't test for, and encounter, every possible scenario. Hence why big tech companies (apple etc) have beta testing, before a big update. The best way to test software is let the general public use it, and subsequently break it!!

Another thing, often the people doing the testing are the ones that are normally highly skilled and trained on it, and know just exactly what to do to (or more importantly, not what to do!!). Simulating and testing (as said before...) is a very false and artificial environment. Unfortunately, the best ways to test things is in service.

It's very easy to sit and say OH testing should of been done. It was, and I'm sure these problems didn't arise to this level. But it happens in different businesses and industries. I do feel the passengers though, it's an awful situation and none of this is right. And it "shouldn't" happen. But we are here!