Thameslink 377 trains

[Firestarter]

Does anybody know if and when the 377 trains will be used at the weekends? I've heard they will be used with the introduction of the December Timetable. If that is the case next question is when will they start running through the night? All the platform staff are saying once they start running through the weekend and nights the next step will be to get rid of the night shift staff from stations like St albans, Luton and Bedford. Why have platform staff when we can use the 377 trains and drivers can use internal monitors to self dispatch. New brighter station lighting have been put along the line, new 377 compatiable DOO platform monitors have been installed. there are romoors DOO monitors will be installed at the currently "maned" stations St Albans Luton Bedford. The money saved on night shift, abit could be spent on initial cleaning team to come earlier to clean station esp.: on a friday/saturday night and FCC get more money in their pockets. Anyway just a few rumors flying around

ALL THOUGHT WELCOME.

 

[Aictos]

Does anybody know if and when the 377 trains will be used at the weekends? I've heard they will be used with the introduction of the December Timetable. If that is the case next question is when will they start running through the night? All the platform staff are saying once they start running through the weekend and nights the next step will be to get rid of the night shift staff from stations like St albans, Luton and Bedford. Why have platform staff when we can use the 377 trains and drivers can use internal monitors to self dispatch. New brighter station lighting have been put along the line, new 377 compatiable DOO platform monitors have been installed. there are romoors DOO monitors will be installed at the currently "maned" stations St Albans Luton Bedford. The money saved on night shift, abit could be spent on initial cleaning team to come earlier to clean station esp.: on a friday/saturday night and FCC get more money in their pockets. Anyway just a few rumors flying around

ALL THOUGHT WELCOME.

Now where have I seen that text before.....Oh I don't know, Platform maybe

As to getting rid of platform staff, I really ought to shoot you for that but I won't and instead will give you some reasons why it won't work.

1. What happens when the DOO monitors in the 377 cab fail? From what I've heard, you can then only call at manned stations so if there's no platform staff then you can only cancel the service and put passengers on the next train and hope it's a 319.

2. Have you any idea what it's like having to deal with unsociable passengers in the middle of the night or having to deal with the aftermath, it's okay from your position as you could just leave them on some platform in the middle of nowhere.

3. There's another way to save money and that's to either freeze driver's pay or sack a lot of the middle management.

4. Although it's technically the driver's job to secure the train, make sure there's no passengers still on board etc...FCC policy has now changed to put the responsibilities onto the platform staff so at all locations where trains terminate, platform staff will be available.

5. Say you're driving one of the 319s and you have to terminate at St Albans due to OHL damage between St Albans and Luton, are you going to arrange onward travel for the passengers? Of course, you're not as that would have been done by the station staff.

As far as I know they are just daft rumours started up by people missing a few braincells!

Seriously though, as much as I like the 377s - all staff are important and not just the drivers...

 

[JamesLM87]

Have they managed to get the doors to open within a reasonable time yet? They should think about that first.

 

[Skarpur]

Wouldn't Bedford and Luton at least still need platform staff for the EMT services, given that the occasional HST stops there?

 

[asylumxl]

Have they managed to get the doors to open within a reasonable time yet? They should think about that first.

In St Pancras it's due to interference from the OHLE. In Farringdon it's due to the DC voltage being too high.

 

[delt1c]

Does anybody know if and when the 377 trains will be used at the weekends? I've heard they will be used with the introduction of the December Timetable. If that is the case next question is when will they start running through the night? All the platform staff are saying once they start running through the weekend and nights the next step will be to get rid of the night shift staff from stations like St albans, Luton and Bedford. Why have platform staff when we can use the 377 trains and drivers can use internal monitors to self dispatch. New brighter station lighting have been put along the line, new 377 compatiable DOO platform monitors have been installed. there are romoors DOO monitors will be installed at the currently "maned" stations St Albans Luton Bedford. The money saved on night shift, abit could be spent on initial cleaning team to come earlier to clean station esp.: on a friday/saturday night and FCC get more money in their pockets. Anyway just a few rumors flying around

ALL THOUGHT WELCOME.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Had to read the post several times as thought I was mis reading this.
From the origonal post seems you want to sack staff, make the stations unstaffed and unsafe places, increase driver stress, reduce recipts as people will be avoiding the trains and managment will not be happy as recipts will be down, grafiti and vandelisim increased plus friction between the unions and managment.
How would you feel if someone posted on the web sugesting getting rid of your job?

 

[Aictos]

Thank you Delt1C, that is how it seems to me too.

 

[thelem]

How would you feel if someone posted on the web sugesting getting rid of your job?

As I currently work in a private company I wouldn't be too bothered. If I were to be made redundant then I would take the money and find a job elsewhere.

 

[delt1c]

As I currently work in a private company I wouldn't be too bothered. If I were to be made redundant then I would take the money and find a job elsewhere.

Must be good to so needed that you can find a job so easily in the current economic conditions. But have a thought for the staff and their families who it was suggested in the origonal post whos job hould be abbolished, they may not find it so easy to find alternative employment.

 

[91101]

The DOO monitors on a 377 do not overrule the dispatcher in locations where trains are manually dispatched, Bedford, Luton, St Albans etc the dispatcher is still in charge of giving the tip. The internal DOO monitors are notorious for failing, as Southern have found out, and are worse when running as an 8 car. For Southern its easier as they can (resources permitting) stick a guard on when the monitors fail, for FCC its not part of their safety case and the drivers wouldnt work as guards anyway I presume (ASLEF would have something to say about it I guess). So its for this reason that dispatch staff are retained at City Thameslink, Farringdon and St Pancras, despite them normally being DOO locations. Given Southerns experience I dont think there is a long term solution to the cameras not working.

 

[jon0844]

How difficult can it be to have a bit of technology that works?! I know trains aren't quite up there with a military fighter jet or space shuttle, but there must be a way to ensure almost 100% reliability.

If not, it's got to be bad design - and the manufacturer of the train should be held to account.

 

[Aictos]

How difficult can it be to have a bit of technology that works?! I know trains aren't quite up there with a military fighter jet or space shuttle, but there must be a way to ensure almost 100% reliability.

If not, it's got to be bad design - and the manufacturer of the train should be held to account.

What would be a much better solution and one which passengers probably would like is if FCC somehow got their safety case amended to have guards on the semi fast/express workings and keep DOO for the suburban workings.
These guards would be able to sell tickets onboard as well as carry out safety critical duties.

Moorgate and Wimbledom/Sutton services would remain DOO but all other services would return to having a guard.

Just won't happen though,

 

[jon0844]

I don't have a problem with that, but still believe a train should so what it is designed to do.

Mechanical parts can break down, but to have a CCTV camera fail to work properly is p**s poor.

We wouldn't accept the lighting flickering on a train, or the seats collapsing, and I don't think that these issues should be accepted either.

I bet if hefty fines were imposed on the manufacturer for problems that aren't fixed (after a reasonable time/effort) then the quality of manufacturing might actually improve.

Talking of more staff on trains; when we eventually get these 12-car services running every few minutes - will that, supposedly, reduce overcrowding to the point where for the longer distance services we get some form on on-board catering from a trolley?

 

[Broken Viking]

What would be a much better solution and one which passengers probably would like is if FCC somehow got their safety case amended to have guards on the semi fast/express workings and keep DOO for the suburban workings.
These guards would be able to sell tickets onboard as well as carry out safety critical duties.

Moorgate and Wimbledom/Sutton services would remain DOO but all other services would return to having a guard. Just won't happen though,

I dunno why, but that post gives me the vague impression that all operators are trying to work their way towards DOO services, which definitely wouldn't be a good thing. hock:

...Although for some reason, I do find the idea of DOO Pendo and sleeper services to be quite amusing. Thankfully though, that'll never happen. Pendos would be far too tricky to DOO on because of their length, and could ye imagine a sleeper with no on-board staff?

 

[ukrob]

We wouldn't accept the lighting flickering on a train, or the seats collapsing, and I don't think that these issues should be accepted either.

You don't travel on Northern very much do you?

 

[Class377]

So are they actually going to run weekends?

 

[Tom C]

City Thameslink used to have dispatch during the morning and evening peak and two trains a day were closed out. FCC took out dispatch in a short sighted move which made the drivers job much more difficult as the platform was far too busy for the driver to safely tip himself.

As for the idea of taking night staff off...........can't add to what has already been said other to say it clearly a stupid idea.

 

[Drsatan]

So are they actually going to run weekends?

Wait until the December timetable. Only about 13 (according to Wikipedia so forgive me if I'm wrong) have been commissioned yet so they might not be running all night-time services. FCC would probably diagram a couple of late night/early morning services for 377 operation just to test out their capabilities.

 

[Aictos]

As for the idea of taking night staff off...........can't add to what has already been said other to say it clearly a stupid idea.

I agree, in fact it could go even worse and have some stations being single manned which City on nights could quite easily fall in that option.

All manned stations should as a basic minimum should have 2 people on duty on nights for a various number of reasons, 1. It's safer working as a pair then on your own. 2. Most antisocial behaviour happens when there's hardly any staff especially at night.

If FCC did try this, I would urge the affected stations to take it up with their union reps as it's a unsafe practice expecting staff to work on their own at nights and having no chance of any assistance other then the local police if you're lucky they come in time....

Okay, it will mean reworking the rosters but surely our safety is important plus if the staff are there why not?