Thameslink 2018 Timetable Consultation Part 2

[philjo]

Presumably because some GN services will be terminating at Kings Cross and the Maidstone services terminate at Blackfriars that increases the total number of units required to operate the service until 2019.
Though we don't have details yet if the additional GN Cambridge Semi-fast will be operating in to Kings Cross from May 2018, or brought in as a new service next December. The off-peak GN stoppers could stay as 4 coaches for a while !

 

[whoosh]

On the one hand, it's being reported that the full timetable won't be introduced until December 2019, yet the Saturday draft timetable titled 2018 has Cambridge trains going through to Maidstone.

Yet the proposed Sunday timetable seems very lacklustre compared to what has been previously touted as happening:
TL5 Peterborough to Horsham was supposed to be 2tph on Sundays but is only shown as 1tph.
GN4.2 Hertford North to Moorgate was supposed to be 4tph on a Sunday but only the 2tph GN4.1 Stevenage to Moorgate are shown.

Is the Sunday the final proposal or an interim timetable?
Gives the impression they don't know what they're doing!

 

[tbwbear]

Presumably because some GN services will be terminating at Kings Cross and the Maidstone services terminate at Blackfriars that increases the total number of units required to operate the service until 2019.
Though we don't have details yet if the additional GN Cambridge Semi-fast will be operating in to Kings Cross from May 2018, or brought in as a new service next December. The off-peak GN stoppers could stay as 4 coaches for a while !

Has a date been given for the Maidstone to Blackfriars services to commence ?

Could it be that they don't begin until the Cambridge services get extended through Blackfriars in December 2019 ?

Isn't it going to be quite difficult to terminate two services per hour on the west side of Blackfriars - especially as the Maidstone services are timetabled to be routed via London Bridge ?

 

[david737]

Has a date been given for the Maidstone to Blackfriars services to commence ?

Could it be that they don't begin until the Cambridge services get extended through Blackfriars in December 2019 ?

Isn't it going to be quite difficult to terminate two services per hour on the west side of Blackfriars - especially as the Maidstone services are timetabled to be routed via London Bridge ?

If they start running a Maidstone to Blackfriars service it definitely won't go via London Bridge as there is no crossover from the up/down Blackfriars spurs into the bay plats 3&4 at Blackfriars despite there being one in the original plans. When this was raised with the project sometime back the answer was 'there won't be any trains from London Bridge booked to terminate at Blackfriars' looks as if this omission could be coming back to bite them.

 

[tbwbear]

If they start running a Maidstone to Blackfriars service it definitely won't go via London Bridge as there is no crossover from the up/down Blackfriars spurs into the bay plats 3&4 at Blackfriars despite there being one in the original plans. When this was raised with the project sometime back the answer was 'there won't be any trains from London Bridge booked to terminate at Blackfriars' looks as if this omission could be coming back to bite them.

So the options would seem to be

1) Run it via Catford or Herne Hill (is there capacity - isn't Catford going to 4tph?)
2) Terminate it at London Bridge, Cannon Street or Charing Cross (as pre-2009)
3) Wait until 2019 to bring it in (at least the new off-peak Thameslink Maidstone service)

Am I alone in thinking, it will be option 3, and as this is the last piece of the whole Thameslink puzzle, there could be a fair chance it might not even happen... Too pessimistic ?

 

[Bald Rick]

If they start running a Maidstone to Blackfriars service it definitely won't go via London Bridge as there is no crossover from the up/down Blackfriars spurs into the bay plats 3&4 at Blackfriars despite there being one in the original plans. When this was raised with the project sometime back the answer was 'there won't be any trains from London Bridge booked to terminate at Blackfriars' looks as if this omission could be coming back to bite them.

The answer was actually "would you spend £5m of your own money for something that is not planned to be used, and is very unlikely to be used in unplanned situations". Or words to that effect

 

[Failed Unit]

I also have my doubts to if Maidstone to Welwyn will ever run.

However look at the evening timetable and you find direct services to Welwyn Garden City. Very odd if they only run core late evening and Saturday as the latest timetables suggest.

 

[Downthelane]

I also have my doubts to if Maidstone to Welwyn will ever run.

However look at the evening timetable and you find direct services to Welwyn Garden City. Very odd if they only run core late evening and Saturday as the latest timetables suggest.

Please remove- duplicate post.

 

[Minstral25]

Just noted that the core will be shut 01:00 Saturday night until 09:30 Sunday morning to enable Network Rail maintenance to take place. Trains will run into St Pancras, Kings Cross, London Bridge and Blackfriars instead.

Also it appears the Sunday timetable is only temporary until Network Rail finish all the Maintenance work along BML to bring it up to standard needed to run full Thameslink - that's why they got £300m to update lines North and South of the core.

For example Peterborough to Horsham says it will be two per hour by May 2019 and Cambridge to Three Bridges has similar comment.

 

[Bishopstone]

Though the Brighton Main Line was only on a quasi-Saturday service today, my evening train from Gatwick to Lewes - and others - still lost a random and unexplained ten minutes en route, scuppering the booked connection to Seaford.

Unless they can pare back these 'sundry' hiccups with their knock-on impacts, I think the ramping-up of the Core timetable, next year, is going to cause real challenges.

 

[MML]

No through service between London St Pancras and London Blackfriars during Xmas week due to engineering work. Trains south of the river are starting at London Bridge and are presumably re-scheduled to allow cross-London connection by underground.

That will certainly explain most delays to Thameslink schedules.

 

[infobleep]

No through service between London St Pancras and London Blackfriars during Xmas week due to engineering work. Trains south of the river are starting at London Bridge and are presumably re-scheduled to allow cross-London connection by underground.

That will certainly explain most delays to Thameslink schedules.

Whether that caused delays to a Southern service though is another matter.

 

[Gareth4949]

Does anyone know if any thameslink services have run via the London Bridge though platforms today ie via Platform 4 and 5

 

[Sunset route]

Does anyone know if any thameslink services have run via the London Bridge though platforms today ie via Platform 4 and 5

Certainly none so far on late shift, all trains using (W) prefix for going via Herne Hill.

 

[westcoaster]

Test train in the early hours 5Zxx.

 

[Sunset route]

Test train in the early hours 5Zxx.

We sent one up from TB Depot yesterday evening through our patch, but no service trains so far.

 

[ijmad]

We sent one up from TB Depot yesterday evening through our patch, but no service trains so far.

When they do, will they be making an unadvertised passenger call?

 

[Sunset route]

When they do, will they be making an unadvertised passenger call?

Personally I don’t actually know, but others have said that they scheduled to pass straight through the station and wait for time at either Blackfriars junction up direction and bricklayers arms junction down direction. Now whether GTR start stopping there when they are more certain of the drivers diagrams and route knowledge nearer the May timetable change as part some good publicity will be up to them.

 

[SprinterMan]

Some very interesting things starting to appear on OTT............

http://www.opentraintimes.com/locat...w_pass=on&show_stp=on&show_var=on&show_wtt=on

The new Thameslink trains that will NOT start in May 2018 e.g. Maidstones have been put into the system as freight paths.

 

[philjo]

The information on this site seems to be slightly different to that previously announced.

https://www.railplan2020.com/

It mentions Cambridge to Brighton is starting in December 2018. the previous info we had from the consultation indicated that this would start in May. Peterborough is now mentioned in May 2018 (on the Southern services page!).
From December 2019 it now mentions Cambridge to Ashford services - the consultation had previously shown this as terminating at Maidstone East.

Improvements to Great Northern include:
From May 2018

• Increased frequency and capacity of trains from Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North and on into London following extensive consultation with passenger groups

From December 2018

• Direct Thameslink services from Cambridge and local Great Northern stations to Brighton via Gatwick with new destinations and travel opportunities
• The interconnection with the Elizabeth Line (Crossrail) presents new, simplified journey options and destinations

From May 2019

• Direct London services from Welwyn Garden City and local stations to Sevenoaks with simplified services and new travel opportunities

Improvements to Thameslink include:
From May 2018

• Littlehampton to London Bridge services transfer to Thameslink, with a new timetable and travel opportunities
• Horsham to London Bridge services will transfer to Thameslink, with a new timetable and travel opportunities
• Anyone travelling from London Bridge to East Croydon (and onward interchange) will see a significant uplift in services
• Thameslink services diverted to Crystal Palace start to call again at London Bridge
• New Thameslink services between Luton and Rainham
• Catford Loop – doubling off-peak services to London, bringing extra capacity on this route
• A significant increase in frequency of trains between St Albans and St Pancras

From December 2018

• Additional services from Littlehampton to London Bridge, through London and up to Bedford
• Great Northern services to Cambridge will transfer to Thameslink, simplifying journey options and providing access to new destinations
• The interconnection with the Elizabeth Line (Crossrail) presents new simplified journey options and destinations

From May 2019

• The Sevenoaks line into London joins central London up to Welwyn Garden City with simplified services and new travel opportunities

From December 2019

• New Thameslink services between Cambridge and Ashford

Improvements to Southern include:
From May 2018

• The introduction of metro-style services in some London suburbs with simplified routes, increased frequency and capacity
• New direct routes to and from the South Coast through London and up to Bedford
• A new Sunday service between Sutton and Epsom Downs
• A revised service on the East Coastway following extensive consultation with passenger groups
• On the Brighton line, there will be new direct routes through London and new travel opportunities up to Peterborough
• Anyone travelling from London Bridge to East Croydon (and onward interchange) will see a significant uplift in services

From December 2018

• Increased frequency of services through London
• The interconnection with the Elizabeth Line (Crossrail) presents new, simplified journey options and destinations

 

[Envy123]

I thought Welwyn to Sevenoaks would be peak only.

 

[USBT]

The information on this site seems to be slightly different to that previously announced.

https://www.railplan2020.com/

It mentions Cambridge to Brighton is starting in December 2018. the previous info we had from the consultation indicated that this would start in May. Peterborough is now mentioned in May 2018 (on the Southern services page!).
From December 2019 it now mentions Cambridge to Ashford services - the consultation had previously shown this as terminating at Maidstone East.

How many more websites with silly names are they going to put up? They only recently had www.transformingrail.com (with all the consultation phases 2 and 3 timetables downloadable). And that now links through to this "RailPlan 20/20" site, with no timetables and conflicting information.

Horsham-Peterborough was always slated for May 2018, along with Brighton-Cambridge.

 

[USBT]

And as well as the doublespeak on that new site there's the new URL name "Railplan2020". Is this trying to condition people for further delays to the full service beyond 2019?

 

[Barn]

How many more websites with silly names are they going to put up? They only recently had www.transformingrail.com (with all the consultation phases 2 and 3 timetables downloadable). And that now links through to this "RailPlan 20/20" site, with no timetables and conflicting information.

Horsham-Peterborough was always slated for May 2018, along with Brighton-Cambridge.

This new one is a bit strange isn't it? Flashy but with almost no content. Perhaps it's a work in progress.

 

[Minstral25]

It is a placeholder until they have the final details agreed with Network Rail and then a full timetable options will be put up. They haven't advertised it as far as I am aware and we probably only got to it via "transformingrail" website which has completed its purpose now. So it is probably not fully ready yet!

 

[Verulamius]

There are a number of Railplan 20/20 posters already up on the Thameslink Network.

 

[jon0844]

And as well as the doublespeak on that new site there's the new URL name "Railplan2020". Is this trying to condition people for further delays to the full service beyond 2019?

It'll be like Thameslink 2000, so the 20/20 actually means 2050 or something..!

 

[Minstral25]

There are a number of Railplan 20/20 posters already up on the Thameslink Network.

Nothing seen down our end yet (at least by me anyway) but then they forget we are part of Thameslink because we are south of the river.

GTR said they were not advertising the changes until end of February, unusual for anything on GTR to be early - any pictures?

 

[Skimble19]

There are a number of Railplan 20/20 posters already up on the Thameslink Network.

Same on Great Northern, large posters have been put up at the bigger stations and standard posters at most smaller stations.

 

[bramling]

How many more websites with silly names are they going to put up? They only recently had www.transformingrail.com (with all the consultation phases 2 and 3 timetables downloadable). And that now links through to this "RailPlan 20/20" site, with no timetables and conflicting information.

Horsham-Peterborough was always slated for May 2018, along with Brighton-Cambridge.

Maybe powers that be are getting seriously cold feet - GN performance has badly dipped recently, although it's not entirely clear why.