Thames Estuary Airport Express Railways

[R848]

Interested to know more about the proposed Express Railway routes for the unbuilt Thames Estuary Airport at Foulness / Maplin Sands?

Heard a few of the proposed Express Railway routes were to begin from Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street, though particularly interested in finding out more about the proposed Express Railway route starting from King's Cross and what stations it was to travel through without stopping.

An old thread here from years ago mentioned the King's Cross route was to start at a new dedicated station on the goods yard site at King's Cross through the Copenhagen tunnel onto the Goblin onwards, yet how was the route supposed to travel onto the unbuilt M12 motorway from the Goblin?

Was also wondering if there are any decent maps available on the proposed Express Railway, as could only find a small map in the following link which leaves much to be desired.

 

[PeterC]

The map in the link gives the impression that they hadn't got beyond playing with the crayon box.

 

[R848]

The map in the link gives the impression that they hadn't got beyond playing with the crayon box.

It is likely the case though the planned route was said to utilize parts of existing lines. Found the post in question from the old thread where it is mentioned it would go through Kentish Town onto the Goblin via Highgate Road.

Can envision the Express Railway from King's Cross getting off the Goblin through Tottenham Hale and near Northumberland Park or going through South Tottenham onto the Coppermill Curve up to Wood Street, just wonder how the Express Railway would have ended up traveling along the unbuilt M12 motorway from South Woodford at either possible route unless an entirely different route was planned.

 

[edwin_m]

There was an article about the Maplin airport route in Modern Railways, but I haven't a clue when it would have been (early 70s?) and don't have time to go through hundreds of back-issues right now!

 

[R848]

There was an article about the Maplin airport route in Modern Railways, but I haven't a clue when it would have been (early 70s?) and don't have time to go through hundreds of back-issues right now!

Understand, willing to wait.

 

[R848]

Recently found this following map which includes a few possible routes to Maplin Airport.

One proposed route was envisioned to diverge at Brimsdown from South Tottenham through a tunnel under Epping Forest to Noak Hill and Hockley onwards, yet wonder how the route would have been able to make a sharp turn right at Brimsdown let alone whether the planned tunnel beneath Epping Forest would be travel through Loughton or Theydon Bois?

The alternative route from South Tottenham to Noak Hill beyond suggests it would have connected to the Chingford branch via the Coppermill Curve prior to diverging at Wood Street and via a tunnel running parallel with the unbuilt M12 motorway.

While the third proposal route simply entailed traveling along the Goblin to Barking and beyond.

Since last post a while tried contacting Modern Railways, unfortunately they were unable to help with my query.

 

[AngusH]

Would it also have meant more west-east connections?

That map seems to show assorted other lines being constructed as well as the actual link to the airport...

It's probably a shame the airport didn't get built

 

[R848]

Think the map and the other proposed rail lines are likely from the Roskill Commission as Cublington, Nuthampstead and Thurleigh were the other proposed sites for an airport alongside Maplin / Foulness.

Not sure whether the stations mentioned for the Maplin route such as Harringay, South Tottenham, Brimsdown, Noak Hill and Hockley were actually intended to be stops or since it was conceived as an "Express Railway" give a rough idea of the proposed route it is traveling. A bit surprised Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street were not considered alongside the route from Kings Cross-St Pancras, though assume they would have come latter had everything been approved.

Guess it is a shame in retrospect, the same could be said for a later proposed airport at Willingale on the basis it would have potentially provided another rail link from London to Chelmsford onwards.

 

[30907]

A bit surprised Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street were not considered alongside the route from Kings Cross-St Pancras, though assume they would have come latter had everything been approved.

I suspect that's because Liverpool St and Fenchurch St were at capacity whereas in those days STP in particular was very quiet.

 

[R848]

I suspect that's because Liverpool St and Fenchurch St were at capacity whereas in those days STP in particular was very quiet.

Understand.

With the St Pancras - Maplin route approved and given it would to use part of the Goblin up to South Tottenham, how likely would it be for the rest of the Goblin route to continue with regular services?

 

[Indigo Soup]

Think the map and the other proposed rail lines are likely from the Roskill Commission as Cublington, Nuthampstead and Thurleigh were the other proposed sites for an airport alongside Maplin / Foulness.

Not sure whether the stations mentioned for the Maplin route such as Harringay, South Tottenham, Brimsdown, Noak Hill and Hockley were actually intended to be stops or since it was conceived as an "Express Railway" give a rough idea of the proposed route it is traveling. A bit surprised Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street were not considered alongside the route from Kings Cross-St Pancras, though assume they would have come latter had everything been approved.

Guess it is a shame in retrospect, the same could be said for a later proposed airport at Willingale on the basis it would have potentially provided another rail link from London to Chelmsford onwards.

Cublington was actually the preferred option of the Roskill Commission. Depending on the route chosen, journey times would have been:

• From St Pancras, 40 minutes at 100mph or 38 minutes at 125mph
• From Marylebone, 44 minutes at 100mph or 42 minutes at 125mph
• From Euston, 39 minutes at 100mph or 36 minutes at 125mph

Concerns about line capacity on the WCML were raised, so I suspect that running from St Pancras would have been preferred.

 

[R848]

Indeed Cublington was said to have been preferred by some though Maplin was apparently a more grander and ambitious proposal or viewed more a White Elephant by others, with none of the proposals being built in the end.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Cublington was the initial favourite on the strength of cost-benefit analysis, but public opposition (and one of the first big public planning inquiries) killed the proposal stone dead. I believe that a third runway for Heathrow was looked at, but the view at the time was that it wouldn't have much benefit.

Maplin was the backup option that didn't involve taking over several square miles of countryside, but was eyewateringly expensive - presumably the reason it didn't do well in the initial assessment - which lead to its' death. One of the many problems - Maplin Sands were (and still are) part of a bombing range. Nobody knew how many unexploded bombs and shells were there, how deeply they were buried, or how shallow a burial they needed to be worried about.

The eventual 'solution' was to pour money into Stansted, which held off congestion at Heathrow for a couple of decades until the recent Boris Island / Heathrow third runway discussions.

Meanwhile, whilst we were talking about a new international airport and experimenting with-speed tilting trains, the French built Charles de Gaulle airport and the TGV. The timelines match up very closely.

 

[PeterC]

Cublington was the initial favourite on the strength of cost-benefit analysis, but public opposition (and one of the first big public planning inquiries) killed the proposal stone dead. I believe that a third runway for Heathrow was looked at, but the view at the time was that it wouldn't have much benefit.

Maplin was the backup option that didn't involve taking over several square miles of countryside, but was eyewateringly expensive - presumably the reason it didn't do well in the initial assessment - which lead to its' death. One of the many problems - Maplin Sands were (and still are) part of a bombing range. Nobody knew how many unexploded bombs and shells were there, how deeply they were buried, or how shallow a burial they needed to be worried about.

The eventual 'solution' was to pour money into Stansted, which held off congestion at Heathrow for a couple of decades until the recent Boris Island / Heathrow third runway discussions.

Meanwhile, whilst we were talking about a new international airport and experimenting with-speed tilting trains, the French built Charles de Gaulle airport and the TGV. The timelines match up very closely.

I think Maplin is artilliary rather than bombing but the other huge issue was the bird strike risk from the 10,000 plus geese that over winter in the area.

 

[R848]

Notwithstanding the pitfalls of the Maplin site, there is appeal in terms of how nearby rail routes would have served the airport (along with the Maplin Express rail) had it been approved especially as it was envisaged as operating 24 hours a day.

 

[MP33]

I lived in Hockley for a few years when I was very young. The maps remind me of something that came through the door. It was a document to all local residents with proposed road and rail links to Maplin Airport. Residents were asked to vote on their propsed option. We were not going to vote on the one that had a Motorway going through our house.

Members of my family said that my father got mentioned in Hansard. In that he wrote a letter to our MP Sir Bernard Braine and he quoted it in the house during a debate about Maplin Airport.

Years after the Airport was shelved there was a story about building on a small piece of the green belt. The landowners were British Airways who originally bought the land to build staff quarters for the new Airport.