Thalys

[Citybreak1]

Is there any discount codes or cheaper tickets? I signed up to become a member. I notice some slower trains to Holland but not much cheaper.

 

[DanielB]

Thalys to/from Amsterdam is very popular, so the only real way to get cheaper tickets is booking early.

The cheapest tickets for the alternative IC to Holland (assuming you're travelling from Brussels or taking a TGV and changing in Brussels) are Early Bird tickets for weekdays (on weekends Early Bird tickets are available, but at a higher price). Those need to be purchased at least one week in advance.
Note these are fixed to a specific train this summer.

The cheapest option probably is splitting tickets: from Belgium to Roosendaal most standard Belgian fares are available. From Roosendaal further into the Netherlands you'd then need to buy a domestic ticket.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

Thalys is sadly the worst of international high speed rail. Whilst everyone else has been expanding capacity, Thalys has been running pretty much the same timetable with the same fleet since 1997 and they are more than happy to milk their monopoly on the Paris - Brussels corridor for every Euro possible. The trains are full anyway, so there is no reason for them to offer any discounts.

 

[MarcVD]

And they have absolutely no incentive at all to enhance their service either. We urgently need introduction of competition on this high speed link.

 

[Lewlew]

Isn’t the Thalys brand soon to disappear? They’ve merged with Eurostar and the latest I heard was that the Eurostar brand will be used for all services.

 

[dutchflyer]

Maybe perhaps who knows. But my bet is that this €* is far too english/anglais for the French, who run and have the big major part of this Tls anyway, so I bet some new fancy french-sounding, or at least easy to pronounce for french, will be found by a very well paid for this very difficult job advertisement agency.?! BruPaLO?

 

[Austriantrain]

Isn’t the Thalys brand soon to disappear? They’ve merged with Eurostar and the latest I heard was that the Eurostar brand will be used for all services.

It will, but that won’t change a thing. You can have a monopoly rail provider, but then it has to take its obligations seriously, as SBB and various others do. Or you have competition. Having a monopolist that abuses it’s position, as SNCF does, is really the worst option.

 

[Citybreak1]

I did read the points system maybe will merge with Eurostar so maybe there’s scope for a free journey with points if they do merge?

 

[duesselmartin]

On routes such as Brussels -Germany and Brussels -Amsterdam there is competion.
As to the Paris route, what stops other operators from serving that market?

 

[Trainbike46]

On routes such as Brussels -Germany and Brussels -Amsterdam there is competion.
As to the Paris route, what stops other operators from serving that market?

Technically there is some competition from the SNCF TGVs on Brussels-Paris.

The main reason there's no other operators is the challenge of dealing with the SNCF ( I think that is the reason at least)

 

[Fragezeichnen]

A combination of lack of time and lack of a suitable operator I guess.

Due to the lethargic implementation of ERP4 in France, until 2 years ago only SNCF(or it's "partners") were permitted to run high speed services in France. DB has been running services to Belgium independently for 20 years now.

DB certainly has the know-how to compete, but they currently lack suitable rolling stock and they may be subject to pressure from SNCF since they are partners on the services to Paris via Strasbourg.
SNCB and NS are also Thalys partners and don't operate high speed services independently

I'm hoping either Trenitalia or Renfe will rise to challenge eventually. I wouldn't be surprised if renfe would like to get SNCF back for bringing unwelcome competition to their own highly profitable Madrid - Barcelona route(apparently they had to cut their ticket prices by 50%)

 

[AlbertBeale]

And they have absolutely no incentive at all to enhance their service either. We urgently need introduction of competition on this high speed link.

Or the service being run for public benefit, with environmental interests in mind too, rather than for private profit.

 

[Austriantrain]

A combination of lack of time and lack of a suitable operator I guess.

Due to the lethargic implementation of ERP4 in France, until 2 years ago only SNCF(or it's "partners") were permitted to run high speed services in France. DB has been running services to Belgium independently for 20 years now.

DB certainly has the know-how to compete, but they currently lack suitable rolling stock and they may be subject to pressure from SNCF since they are partners on the services to Paris via Strasbourg.
SNCB and NS are also Thalys partners and don't operate high speed services independently

I'm hoping either Trenitalia or Renfe will rise to challenge eventually. I wouldn't be surprised if renfe would like to get SNCF back for bringing unwelcome competition to their own highly profitable Madrid - Barcelona route(apparently they had to cut their ticket prices by 50%)

At least Spain, confronted with their highly incompetent (and apparently unreformable) national operator, took the right decision to not only allow, but actively encourage competition (just legally allowing it is rarely enough, it needs to have political support - a Trenitalia operation between Paris and Brussels in the mould of Paris - Lyon with three trains a day would be a welcome addition, but would not really change the competitive dynamics of the route).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 May 2023 ==

Or the service being run for public benefit, with environmental interests in mind too, rather than for private profit.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, France in general has proved itself completely unable to achieve this. While SNCB is different, they cannot or do not want to stand up to SNCF apparently.

 

[zwk500]

Or the service being run for public benefit, with environmental interests in mind too, rather than for private profit.

Thalys pre-merger was 70% SNCF (A state-owner company) and 30% SNCB (a state-owned company).

 

[Fragezeichnen]

True, but at least in the case of SNCF it is a state-owned company whose ultimate purpose is make a profit and cannot and will not prioritise that over providing public benefit in the form of running the maximum frequency and lowest prices without losing money.

Personally I don't have a problem with profit-making entities being involved in rail operation, but it's important to differentiate between services such as Thalys operated on a commercial basis, and services that the government has deemed to be of public benefit and which are then operated under a contract by a private operator(be it ultimataly owned by the state or not), specifying the capacity, service frequency and ticket prices.

 

[zwk500]

True, but at least in the case of SNCF it is a state-owned company whose ultimate purpose is make a profit and cannot and will not prioritise that over providing public benefit in the form of running the maximum frequency and lowest prices without losing money.

Personally I don't have a problem with profit-making entities being involved in rail operation, but it's important to differentiate between services such as Thalys operated on a commercial basis, and services that the government has deemed to be of public benefit and which are then operated under a contract by a private operator(be it ultimataly owned by the state or not), specifying the capacity, service frequency and ticket prices.

SNCF are a state-owned company so any profit is reinvested back in SNCF activities, whereas I was responding to a claim that it was for private profit and therefore extracting money from the industry.

Of course, now it's merged some 30% stake is held by private profit, thanks to the UK govt selling it's stake.

 

[Flying Snail]

The biggest issue on the Paris - Brussels/Amsterdam route is that there is no reasonable slower alternative as per standard SNCF policy the former non LGV fast services were just removed leaving a handful of ridiculously slow and disjointed multiple-connection journeys as the only alternative to Thalys for this major corridor.