TfW to Bristol

[rubin]

Anyone notices the news - it looks tfW will be running 9 services per day to Bristol Temple Meads (7 from West Wales and 2 from Cardiff), wondering will there be any capacity across Severn Tunnel and will that change significantly to current GWR timetable?

From Rail Magazine Website

'Transport for Wales is planning to start running services between west Wales and Bristol Temple Meads from September 2026.

The operator wants to run nine return services each day with two starting from Cardiff Central and the other seven further west.

TfW plans to use two-car Class 197s. Between Cardiff and Bristol trains would stop at Newport, Severn Tunnel Junction, Filton Abbey Wood and Stepleton Road, with one train running via Bristol Parkway Monday-Saturday.

Transport for Wales plans new Bristol Temple Meads service from 2026

Welsh operator wants to start services between West Wales and Bristol from September 2026.

www.railmagazine.com

 

[Brubulus]

Anyone notices the news - it looks tfW will be running 9 services per day to Bristol Temple Meads (7 from West Wales and 2 from Cardiff), wondering will there be any capacity across Severn Tunnel and will that change significantly to current GWR timetable?

Transport for Wales plans new Bristol Temple Meads service from 2026

Welsh operator wants to start services between West Wales and Bristol from September 2026.

www.railmagazine.com

Isn't there also a longer term plan for a half hourly TfW stopper, calling at a load of new stations along the route.

I'm assuming this is 1tp2h, with an extra service in the peaks.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is this in addition to GWR services?
And what does the ORR say about the proposal (in terms of capacity and competition)?
This must also assume the class 197 fleet is fully deployed (including the Cambrian ETCS units).
The Liverpool-Llandudno service is also due to start in 2026, with 197s.

 

[Russel]

I thought the TFW fleet was already pretty stretched?

 

[Krokodil]

TfW plans to use two-car Class 197s.

I can see how that is going to go, more sardine specials...

It also seems nuts to use a diesel unit on a route that is 85% wired when TfW has a fleet of electro-diesel units. Particularly nuts when the 197 fleet is very thinly spread (before someone mentions the stored Cambrian units, those are all spoken for and there are only 21 to cover the work of 24 158s which means service plans have had to be scaled back)

 

[Farigiraf]

between Cardiff and Bristol trains would stop at Newport, Severn Tunnel Junction, Filton Abbey Wood and Stepleton Road

Interesting that while running a stopper service they still propose to skip Lawrence Hill and Ashley Down, as in a discussion in another thread about these services (available here) generally it was agreed that Lawrence Hill is also relatively busy and it's quite pointless to skip it once you're calling everywhere else already.
Ashley Down could also do with the extra tph until a half hourly Henbury/Brabazon service commences (it currently has an hourly shuttle between Temple Meads and Filton which is not adequate for a suburban station.)

Also a 2-hourly service with 2-car units won't do much to capacity so I suppose until the new Burns stations open it'll mainly be about improved services to the existing intermediate stations as well as an additional place to turn some (hopefully improved) West Wales services. I wonder if that'll mean the three branch lines or Carmarthen or Swansea (or a random mix of all as the Marches services currently are).

 

[J663738]

I presume this will be in readiness for the new stations east of Cardiff. I can not see GWR calling at these stations to be honest. TfW seem to be on an expansion drive, I wonder how much of that is down to the owner, i.e. the Welsh Government?

 

[Caaardiff]

I can see how that is going to go, more sardine specials...

It also seems nuts to use a diesel unit on a route that is 85% wired when TfW has a fleet of electro-diesel units. Particularly nuts when the 197 fleet is very thinly spread (before someone mentions the stored Cambrian units, those are all spoken for and there are only 21 to cover the work of 24 158s which means service plans have had to be scaled back)

Bristol Temple Meads isn't electrified and neither is west of Cardiff, so the Stadlers wouldn't manage West Wales - Bristol.

As mentioned time and time again, the 197 fleet are still covering local services in Cardiff where the 231's should be, about 9 units I think. There is also plans to bring HD08 into service which will free up some more.
The Bristol service appears to be just an extension of either the Pembroke Dock - Cardiff or Milford Haven - Cardiff services that don't go to Manchester.

A 3 car would definitely be better suited to the route though as there's no direct connection to Bristol City from west of Cardiff, so may prove popular.

 

[tigermonstera]

I've done some searching online, and a user on a separate forum has linked to an application to the ORR for this service. Here is a link to that thread (see post #7): firstgreatwestern.info. I can't find the document on the ORR's website, but I can't immediately see a reason to doubt its legitimacy. The document is dated 2023, but it appears to actually be from 2025 (it references the most recent spending review, for example).

In answer to questions about service patterns/stops, it appears that the service will, as Caaardiff says, generally be an extension of existing West Wales services. Two services each way will be new for West Wales, however:

All bar two of the through services will be achieved by combining the new Cardiff-Bristol portions with existing West Wales services at Cardiff Central. Two through trains each way will be entirely new services between Cardiff and Carmarthen (filling existing gaps in the standard pattern timetable), then extending to/from Milford Haven or Fishguard Harbour in place of existing services. TfW Rail advised Network Rail of its intentions earlier in 2025 and the parties have been working on the proposals through the normal industry processes.

One service a day each way (except on Sundays) will call at Bristol Parkway before reversing to Bristol Temple Meads:

The service will be broadly 2-hourly, utilising 2-car Class 197 units which have a maximum permitted speed of 100mph. Between Cardiff Central and Bristol Temple Meads, the calling pattern will be Newport, Severn Tunnel Junction, Filton Abbey Wood, and Stapleton Road. One train each way on weekdays and Saturday will additionally call at Bristol Parkway to retain traincrew route knowledge for this alternative terminating location in the event of the route to Bristol Temple Meads being unavailable due to planned engineering work or unplanned events. West of Cardiff, the calling pattern will vary but will typically include Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath, Swansea, Gowerton, Llanelli, Pembrey & Burry Port and Carmarthen, with most services originating from, or extending to, Fishguard Harbour or Milford Haven calling at all stations.

The new service is expected to improve performance at Cardiff Central:

Turnbacks of the West Wales services will effectively be moved From Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads, where shunting is expected to be more straightforward. Most trains will have generous turnaround times and the intention is to turn them back to the west between Temple Meads and Bedminster. So, this is strongly expected to aid capacity and performance.

Additionally, my reading of the this document is that the new services are not the new relief line services (i.e. 'burns' services), but rather their own thing. See:

We have undertaken timetabling work to demonstrate that the proposals do not hinder future known Metrowest aspirations and complement future plans for the South-East Wales Transport Commission recommended ‘Burns’ stopping services between Cardiff and Bristol (subject to separate agreement).

and

Those recommendations also included the proposed Cardiff to Bristol ‘Burns’ stopping services (subject to separate process) which were recently supported in the Comprehensive Spending review 2025.

 

[Kite159]

A low density 2 coach service linking Cardiff & Bristol... Got potentially overcrowded written all over it, depending on the timetable and how big the gap is between TfW & the last GWR

A 4 coach 756 would probably be better, at least it can use the wires from Cardiff towards Patchway

 

[Farigiraf]

Additionally, my reading of the this document is that the new services are not the new relief line services (i.e. 'burns' services), but rather their own thing. See: We have undertaken timetabling work to demonstrate that the proposals do not hinder future known Metrowest aspirations and complement future plans for the South-East Wales Transport Commission recommended ‘Burns’ stopping services between Cardiff and Bristol (subject to separate agreement).

So in a few years, once hopefully everything's running, that'll mean 5.5tph calling at Severn Tunnel Junction in both directions, for which you'd need quite a lot of growth / new housing to justify. Maybe they hope that Chepstow/Caldicot/Lydney to Bristol commuters will be encouraged to take the train? It's currently a 20-30 minute connection each way so not many people make that journey (or they go via Gloucester instead). It'll certainly finally live up to its potential as a 'junction' (i.e. interchange) station.

 

[TravelDream]

Not totally surprising. TFW's intention is to eventually run an hourly service through to Bristol with the TFW service stopping at more stations in Wales (incl. new ones) unlike the GWR services.. Linking it to West Wales services makes perfect sense given it eases capacity constraints at Cardiff Central and means stations not served from Bristol now get a service.

They obviously have capacity constraints. Not just because poor reliability of some of the trains which is more evident with some of the fleet than others. Additionally, the 197s are covering work of the 231s/756s which themselves are covering the tram trains on the Valley Lines.
Then TFW wants to expand their fleet:

Establishing a secure connection ...

Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales Ken Skates, said TfW’s current programme was taking the overall fleet from 270 trains in 2018 to more than 480 next year, but TfW would need more trains as more services were added. “I’ve instructed Transport for Wales to start the process of ordering even more new trains to support these new services,” he said.

That said, I can see two car 197s being very busy. Especially if TFW offer good value advanced fares which they likely will.

 

[Pete_uk]

This has seemingly been bubbling away fir some time.

TFW are looking at new/extra stock so that will ease the rolling stock issue.

Hope it's a flirt variant.

 

[brad465]

Bristol Parkway isn't electrified and neither is west of Cardiff, so the Stadlers wouldn't manage West Wales - Bristol.

Bristol Parkway is electrified, it's Filton Bank that is not. However there is talk of trying to do that, and this service becoming fully-electric will be essential for justifying the business case of that electrification.

 

[Caaardiff]

Bristol Parkway is electrified, it's Filton Bank that is not. However there is talk of trying to do that, and this service becoming fully-electric will be essential for justifying the business case of that electrification.

Sorry, my mistake. I meant Temple Meads

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Also a few services arriving from West Wales tend to go into Canton and have layover time. The Pembroke Dock services go straight back to Pembroke Dock from Cardiff Central, but the schedules could be changed to keep units out and use up that layover time.

 

[vicbury]

Is this in addition to GWR services?
And what does the ORR say about the proposal (in terms of capacity and competition)?
This must also assume the class 197 fleet is fully deployed (including the Cambrian ETCS units).
The Liverpool-Llandudno service is also due to start in 2026, with 197s.

In terms of capacity, anything above and beyond the rammed 2-3 car GWR Portsmouth - Cardiff services will bring a joyous relief!

 

[fwsmVor]

Calling at Stapleton Road is a great uplift for the area. Right now you have to go from SRD to Temple Meads then back through SRD (on the fasts, where platforms used to be but are no longer) to get to Parkway or Cardiff. Plenty of UoB students shafted by housing also commute in from Newport and right now the only viable option is a bus, but a well-timed connection to the Beach line would make Clifton Down faster by rail.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I think its unlikely TfW have not considered using other rolling stock but the 197s may be the easiest way to get the service up and running. If the company said it would be 3+ car 197s then that could be a bad outlook if the stock is not avaliable at the time. As others have said, there are probably assumptions built into using the 197s anyway.

 

[J663738]

The only slight issue might how long the service would take from say Swansea or even Cardiff to Bristol, if it does call at every station on the way. But I suppose if you are going direct to BRI then you won't use it.

 

[Anonymous10]

Not totally surprising. TFW's intention is to eventually run an hourly service through to Bristol with the TFW service stopping at more stations in Wales (incl. new ones) unlike the GWR services.. Linking it to West Wales services makes perfect sense given it eases capacity constraints at Cardiff Central and means stations not served from Bristol now get a service.

They obviously have capacity constraints. Not just because poor reliability of some of the trains which is more evident with some of the fleet than others. Additionally, the 197s are covering work of the 231s/756s which themselves are covering the tram trains on the Valley Lines.
Then TFW wants to expand their fleet:

Establishing a secure connection ...

That said, I can see two car 197s being very busy. Especially if TFW offer good value advanced fares which they likely will.

I hope any peak services will be 3-4 coaches!

 

[D6975]

Calling at Stapleton Road is a great uplift for the area. Right now you have to go from SRD to Temple Meads then back through SRD (on the fasts, where platforms used to be but are no longer) to get to Parkway or Cardiff. Plenty of UoB students shafted by housing also commute in from Newport and right now the only viable option is a bus, but a well-timed connection to the Beach line would make Clifton Down faster by rail.

Not true, once an hour you can catch a train from Stapleton Rd to Filton AW and then pick up the Cardiff service from there.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Not true, once an hour you can catch a train from Stapleton Rd to Filton AW and then pick up the Cardiff service from there.

Indeed you can, and it’s only a 10 min wait at Filton as well.

 

[JonathanH]

I hope any peak services will be 3-4 coaches!

If they can only run 2 coaches, would it be better not to run the TfW service, and just rely on the existing GWR services? It must depend a bit on where the TfW service comes in the timetable. If it goes out immediately after a GWR service, then a short train may be sufficient. It isn't really TfW's role to provide capacity on the Bristol to Newport route.

 

[contrex]

Calling at Stapleton Road is a great uplift for the area. Right now you have to go from SRD to Temple Meads then back through SRD (on the fasts, where platforms used to be but are no longer) to get to Parkway or Cardiff. Plenty of UoB students shafted by housing also commute in from Newport and right now the only viable option is a bus, but a well-timed connection to the Beach line would make Clifton Down faster by rail.

You can use trains to/from Filton Abbey Wood to travel between Stapleton Road and Cardiff/Parkway & vice-versa (as I do once or twice a month; I live in St Werburghs). By not changing at Temple Meads you miss the chance of a pasty, which is good for my waistline, and you're not so likely to get two copies of the Metro so my wife and I can compete to do the cryptic crossword before we get to Cardiff. On a nice summer evening it is pleasant, and all downhill, to walk home from Ashley Down using the Concord Way foot/bike path.

 

[Snow1964]

I hope any peak services will be 3-4 coaches!

The proposed new stations in South Wales all have 170m platforms per their plans (sufficient for 8car x 20m EMU, or 7car x23m vehicles).

Rather suggests TfW making provision for longer than 3-4 coaches.

For completeness the English stations that might be used :
Stapleton Road platforms are over 215m long, (but only about 125m is currently in use).
Filton Abbey Wood platforms are shorter at nearer only 130m so also wouldn't be able to take 8car EMUs if line was electrified with all doors opening.
Bristol Temple Meads cannot take 8 cars in certain platforms, without encroaching into separately numbered platforms at the Southern end, and some bays are also too short for 8car trains

 

[sd0733]

I hope any peak services will be 3-4 coaches!

My understanding is that theyll be pretty much all 2 cars to begin with, however its intened to clear it for 6 car 197s for event days and potential for future strengthening.

 

[Starmill]

I can see how that is going to go, more sardine specials...

It also seems nuts to use a diesel unit on a route that is 85% wired when TfW has a fleet of electro-diesel units. Particularly nuts when the 197 fleet is very thinly spread (before someone mentions the stored Cambrian units, those are all spoken for and there are only 21 to cover the work of 24 158s which means service plans have had to be scaled back)

Actually it looks like this is only three to five diagrams? I.e. the ones already in use on routes where they're a stopgap. It's not related to the ETCS units.

It's a shame to use these units I don't disagree. But how else can a small number of direct trains between Swansea and Bristol be provided? I don't see any possible alternatives.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==

I hope any peak services will be 3-4 coaches!

A two car would be two more cars than today...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==

I presume this will be in readiness for the new stations east of Cardiff. I can not see GWR calling at these stations to be honest. TfW seem to be on an expansion drive, I wonder how much of that is down to the owner, i.e. the Welsh Government?

It may in future be able to stop at Cardiff Parkway but I doubt there will be time for any further stops.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==

This must also assume the class 197 fleet is fully deployed (including the Cambrian ETCS units).

It definitely will be and will need to be meeting top availability targets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==

This has seemingly been bubbling away fir some time.

Indeed. A clear need for a direct train between Swansea and Bristol at least has been accepted for some time. It's good this is, after over ten years of discussion, finally moving forward. It will be very satisfying to see direct trains between Liverpool and Llandudno etc. at a similar time to direct trains between Bristol and Swansea etc.

 

[Brubulus]

Actually it looks like this is only three diagrams? I.e. the ones already in use on routes where they're a stopgap. It's not related to the ETCS units.

It's a shame to use these units I don't disagree. But how else can a small number of direct trains between Swansea and Bristol be provided? I don't see any possible alternatives.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==


A two car would be two more cars than today...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==


It may in future be able to stop at Cardiff Parkway but I doubt there will be time for any further stops.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==


It definitely will be and will need to be meeting top availability targets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2025 ==


Indeed. A clear need for a direct train between Swansea and Bristol at least has been accepted for some time. It's good this is, after over ten years of discussion, finally moving forward. It will be very satisfying to see direct trains between Liverpool and Llandudno etc at a similar time to direct trains between Bristol and Swansea etc.

Won't this mean there will be an extra train between Swansea and Cardiff, and will said train be an extension of the Swanline or a whole new service pattern. I can see why an hourly service between Swansea and Bristol is a good idea, but shouldn't it really be one of the faster trains?

 

[Starmill]

Won't this mean there will be an extra train between Swansea and Cardiff, and will said train be an extension of the Swanline or a whole new service pattern. I can see why an hourly service between Swansea and Bristol is a good idea, but shouldn't it really be one of the faster trains?

Do you mean over the longer term? In the near term it will only be a handful of daily trains which are already running between Cardiff Central and Swansea or beyond. Unfortunately it won't be hourly.

A further benefit is that Newport will regain most of the handful of daily through trains to Carmarthen and beyond which it lost a few years ago.

 

[JonathanH]

The two primary trains between Swansea and Cardiff are the London and the Manchester. A train to Bristol isn't going to usurp either of these and they are generally on opposite sides of the hour. The local runs between the London and Manchester train. The Maesteg to Ebbw Vale runs in the gap between the Manchester and London. In the morning peak an additional London train has to be fitted in. Where is the space for an additional fast between Swansea and Cardiff that by necessity just gets flighted with one of the other services, rather than extending the stopper?