TfW Standard Plus

[Welshman]

I think it would be helpful if notice could be given on platform indicators as to whether the arriving 3 car 197 has SP and at which end it is allocated.

[I know RTT will give the set number of the service you're awaiting, so those in the know realise SP is going to be offered, but how many check RTT beforehand?]

Even then, it is not shown at which end of the 197 it is. So you're waiting at the front of a rather full platform, and only when the train has arrived do you realise you're in the wrong place! By the time you've walked through the train to the other end and found SP is full, you've lost your chance of seats in the remainder of the set!
So an empty standard seat at the boarding door is better than the possibility of a more comfortable one 3 coaches away! And save your money!

First World problems - I know.

 

[Western 52]

On the 197s at one end there's a black dot below the non-drivers side window. Standard plus is at the other end. I look out for this and move accordingly!

The dot is one end only.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think it would be helpful if notice could be given on platform indicators as to whether the arriving 3 car 197 has SP and at which end it is allocated.

[I know RTT will give the set number of the service you're awaiting, so those in the know realise SP is going to be offered, but how many check RTT beforehand?]

Even then, it is not shown at which end of the 197 it is. So you're waiting at the front of a rather full platform, and only when the train has arrived do you realise you're in the wrong place! By the time you've walked through the train to the other end and found SP is full, you've lost your chance of seats in the remainder of the set!
So an empty standard seat at the boarding door is better than the possibility of a more comfortable one 3 coaches away! And save your money!

First World problems - I know.

Same risk/considerations really as with First Class.

Worst that can happen in my view is that the first class or standard plus arrives at my part of the platform which means I have to scrum to find a normal cheap seat.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2024 ==

On the 197s at one end there's a black dot below the non-drivers side window. Standard plus is at the other end. I look out for this and move accordingly!

The dot is one end only.

Hang on that is not logical. This means that if there is no dot then the Standard Plus is at that end of the unit *OR* it could also mean there is no Standard Plus on that unit. How does one know which is which.

 

[Welshman]

Same risk/considerations really as with First Class.

Worst that can happen in my view is that the first class or standard plus arrives at my part of the platform which means I have to scrum to find a normal cheap seat.

Well, not exactly, for platform information boards show where 1st class is allocated on the awaited train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2024 ==

On the 197s at one end there's a black dot below the non-drivers side window. Standard plus is at the other end. I look out for this and move accordingly!

The dot is one end only.

Really!
Thank you for that information.

 

[Western 52]

The black dot actually indicates which end the disabled toilet and wheelchair area is, which is the opposite end to standard plus on the 3 car sets which have this.

 

[Welshman]

Same risk/considerations really as with First Class.

Worst that can happen in my view is that the first class or standard plus arrives at my part of the platform which means I have to scrum to find a normal cheap seat.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2024 ==


Hang on that is not logical. This means that if there is no dot then the Standard Plus is at that end of the unit *OR* it could also mean there is no Standard Plus on that unit. How does one know which is which.

Seemples - if there's no dot on units 197113-197126 then there is SP!

 

[Jez]

It is onboard upgrades only. The only issue here will be adhoc set swaps, with unfortunately happen quite often with TfW. Of course if the same train crew go through with the new unit, getting a refund if the replacement unit doesn’t have SP will be fairly straight forward, however if a change of train-crew occurs with the set swap, they wouldn’t be able to refund it there and then and it would have to be applied for

Yes that might be an issue, however no different to a MK4 being replaced by a unit part of the way through a journey. Customers would be entitled to some sort of refund for a first class ticket in this instance.

 

[43096]

On the 197s at one end there's a black dot below the non-drivers side window. Standard plus is at the other end. I look out for this and move accordingly!

The dot is one end only.

Bring back the inverted black triangle from the Thumpers!

 

[RailWonderer]

It is onboard upgrades only. The only issue here will be adhoc set swaps, with unfortunately happen quite often with TfW. Of course if the same train crew go through with the new unit, getting a refund if the replacement unit doesn’t have SP will be fairly straight forward, however if a change of train-crew occurs with the set swap, they wouldn’t be able to refund it there and then and it would have to be applied for

Two months ago I had one from Manchester to Crewe and for nearly 40 minutes no one asked us to upgrade our tickets. To me it's just standard until the guard turns up and decides to charge people, not that I'm not willing to pay it. On GWR on the weekends the same is the case. For consistency the Mk4s should be upgrade on board as it would save them having to refund people, but charging more for an upgrade as they have a buffet car.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Isn't this some sort of workaround to avoid breaking the law by there not being a first class wheelchair space?

Someone I know in TfW has confirmed that it isn't accessible for wheelchair users.

Also, I can't see the conductor having a particularly great time evicting people out of seats when only half of the 3 car 197s actually have Standard Plus and work in a common pool with the others! (101-112 being regular 3 cars, 113-126 having Standard Plus). Unless they're willing to pay the upgrade, I personally think it'll be difficult to enforce.

 

[MP393]

Two months ago I had one from Manchester to Crewe and for nearly 40 minutes no one asked us to upgrade our tickets. To me it's just standard until the guard turns up and decides to charge people, not that I'm not willing to pay it. On GWR on the weekends the same is the case. For consistency the Mk4s should be upgrade on board as it would save them having to refund people, but charging more for an upgrade as they have a buffet car.

Nobody would ask you to upgrade because it’s declassified until further notice on 197s. It is indeed standard class throughout on all 197s until all units are branded up correctly and another brief goes out to train crew.

Mk4s are are both upgrade on the day and advances available

 

[RailWonderer]

Nobody would ask you to upgrade because it’s declassified until further notice on 197s. It is indeed standard class throughout on all 197s until all units are branded up correctly and another brief goes out to train crew.

Mk4s are are both upgrade on the day and advances available

Thanks for clarifying I think I read this and forgot.

 

[Krokodil]

For consistency the Mk4s should be upgrade on board

They are. And have been ever since Arriva started using a 57 and Mk2s.

 

[Towers]

Nobody would ask you to upgrade because it’s declassified until further notice on 197s. It is indeed standard class throughout on all 197s until all units are branded up correctly and another brief goes out to train crew.

Mk4s are are both upgrade on the day and advances available

And hopefully some sort of ‘briefing’ goes out to the public also!

 

[claireyfairy]

So do I understand this correctly that if you are on a set without first class, then in theory there should be this standard plus? I presume we're ask still looking at taking emergency snacks and drinks.
I'm looking at the 1449 cdf-man on Monday and it's showing a diesel but no first....

 

[Jez]

So do I understand this correctly that if you are on a set without first class, then in theory there should be this standard plus? I presume we're ask still looking at taking emergency snacks and drinks.
I'm looking at the 1449 cdf-man on Monday and it's showing a diesel but no first....

The 1449 CDF-MAN is booked for a 197. But cant be guaranteed it will have standard plus.

 

[claireyfairy]

The 1449 CDF-MAN is booked for a 197. But cant be guaranteed it will have standard plus.

So that's one of the newer sets, not a two carriage from hell, yes?

 

[Krokodil]

So do I understand this correctly that if you are on a set without first class, then in theory there should be this standard plus? I presume we're ask still looking at taking emergency snacks and drinks.
I'm looking at the 1449 cdf-man on Monday and it's showing a diesel but no first....

Yes, that's the theory. A separate series of diagram numbers will be used for these sets to help Control remember which ones those units should be allocated to.

Assuming of course that Control have enough units available.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I'm in Standard Plus seat as we speak. No upgrade required at the moment. However, would a First Class All Line Rover be valid? I presume this will be answered when upgrades go live.

 

[sd0733]

I'm in Standard Plus seat as we speak. No upgrade required at the moment. However, would a First Class All Line Rover be valid? I presume this will be answered when upgrades go live.

Upgrades are suspended with no replacement date now lined up as far as I'm aware.

If/when it comes in I'd be amazed if anyone with any sort of first class ticket had issues in there irrespective of whether it's official policy or not.

 

[Bikeman78]

I find it a bit confusing how the plan seems to be to use the Standard Plus units on random services. Surely it would be far better when they start charging for the upgrade to have specific booked workings for the 197 standard plus sets, rather than just put them into a common pool of 3 car 197s. That way there would be far more consistency and customers would get used to them appearing on regular services. Id say West Wales-Manchester, Cardiff-Holyhead and North Wales-Manchester would be where the upgrade would be best suited rather than them appearing on shorter journeys like Swanline, Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Liverpool-Chester.

As I understand it, there will be separate diagrams from December. The three routes you suggest require five, six and six units respectively, so realistically there are only enough standard plus units to cover two of them. Totally agree that standard plus on the shorter routes would be pointless.

 

[Jez]

As I understand it, there will be separate diagrams from December. The three routes you suggest require five, six and six units respectively, so realistically there are only enough standard plus units to cover two of them. Totally agree that standard plus on the shorter routes would be pointless.

Perhaps they could use them on Manchester to Swansea, Manchester to Llandudno and a few diagrams on Cardiff to Holyhead given the Marches will already have good coverage of SP and First Class with the MK4's.

 

[gazthomas]

Upgrades are suspended with no replacement date now lined up as far as I'm aware.

If/when it comes in I'd be amazed if anyone with any sort of first class ticket had issues in there irrespective of whether it's official policy or not.

I travelled from Llandudno Junction to Chester in mid September and I had to pay for the upgrade, indeed the Guard was making good business from all the confused people. When was it suspended?

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I understand it, there will be separate diagrams from December. The three routes you suggest require five, six and six units respectively, so realistically there are only enough standard plus units to cover two of them. Totally agree that standard plus on the shorter routes would be pointless.

Yet the route that would probably benefit most, being a very GWR Cornwall a like long route where a lot of people do very long journeys - the Cambrian - isn't going to have it. Strange.

 

[sd0733]

I travelled from Llandudno Junction to Chester in mid September and I had to pay for the upgrade, indeed the Guard was making good business from all the confused people. When was it suspended?

They certainly shouldn't have been. They were supposed to be introduced tomorrow but now aren't and are re-suspended. May be worth contacting customer services for a refund as they shouldn't have been enforced or sold at any point.

 

[gazthomas]

They certainly shouldn't have been. They were supposed to be introduced tomorrow but now aren't and are re-suspended. May be worth contacting customer services for a refund as they shouldn't have been enforced or sold at any point.

Thanks the advice

 

[Jez]

I wonder why its been suspended with no date where it is to be introduced into service? It all seemed ready to go, only last week there was information on the trains saying the upgrade was starting at the end of September.

 

[Western 52]

Maybe too difficult to keep the sets on the right diagrams? They seem to appear randomly at the moment.

 

[Jez]

Maybe too difficult to keep the sets on the right diagrams? They seem to appear randomly at the moment.

Yes will be easier from December when there is a new set of diagrams and hopefully the remaining two of the SP units will be in service

 

[WAB]

Yes will be easier from December when there is a new set of diagrams and hopefully the remaining two of the SP units will be in service

I wouldn't rate the chances of allocations being stable enough to offer SP any time soon.