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Tfw Regular Cancellation and Bustitution

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Nick Ashwell

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Does anyone know why TfW regularly seem to be cancelling trains between Maesteg/Cardiff and Gloucester?

Seems regular bustitution happens and today there are many cancellations.

Anyone able to shed any light on the cause?
 
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Cardiff123

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Does anyone know why TfW regularly seem to be cancelling trains between Maesteg/Cardiff and Gloucester?

Seems regular bustitution happens and today there are many cancellations.

Anyone able to shed any light on the cause?
Well today is a Sunday, and 'resource availability' on journey check usually means no available train crew. So it's not difficult to work out the cause. Although it could also be a lack of available 170s.
 

Nick Ashwell

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Well today is a Sunday, and 'resource availability' on journey check usually means no available train crew. So it's not difficult to work out the cause. Although it could also be a lack of available 170s.
But that doesn't account for the weekday services, in the Middle of the day sometimes, which are replaced by coaches.
 
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Caaardiff

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Train crew shortages mainly. No issues with 170s and if there was they'd be subbed for other types unless it's an on the day failure.

Frees up a path for class 196 unit training.
197s for TfW. But they are only in the North. No passenger paths have been sacrificed for 197 training.
 

SuperLuke2334

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Train crew shortages mainly. No issues with 170s and if there was they'd be subbed for other types unless it's an on the day failure.


197s for TfW. But they are only in the North. No passenger paths have been sacrificed for 197 training.
The OP probably meant 231s, as they are fault free running and testing down there in those paths.
 

Dai Corner

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Presumably hiring in a rail replacement bus is cheaper than paying track access charges to Network Rail, and sod the passengers.
 

mrcheek

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Presumably hiring in a rail replacement bus is cheaper than paying track access charges to Network Rail, and sod the passengers.
Its funny how there were people who assumed that when the Welsh devolved government took over, passengers would be the priority!
 

Caaardiff

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Its funny how there were people who assumed that when the Welsh devolved government took over, passengers would be the priority!
Whats funny is how someone thought replacing an entire fleet for the whole network at the same time was a good idea, and the training has barely started.
 

Cardiff123

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Presumably hiring in a rail replacement bus is cheaper than paying track access charges to Network Rail, and sod the passengers.
How is putting on a rail replacement bus worse than cancelling a service altogether and providing no alternative transport? If no drivers/guards are available, or a path has been taken by a training run, the only other alternative will be to cancel a service and provide no replacement transport at all.
 

Dai Corner

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How is putting on a rail replacement bus worse than cancelling a service altogether and providing no alternative transport? If no drivers/guards are available, or a path has been taken by a training run, the only other alternative will be to cancel a service and provide no replacement transport at all.
Or they could employ sufficient traincrew, pay Network Rail for an additional path and run both trains?
 

CaptainHaddock

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Or they could employ sufficient traincrew, pay Network Rail for an additional path and run both trains?

What a ridiculous idea! You'll be suggesting next that the railway should be run for the benefit of passengers instead of staff! ;)
 

Cardiff123

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Or they could employ sufficient traincrew, pay Network Rail for an additional path and run both trains?
Since 2018, TfW has been on a massive recruitment drive to both replace retiring train crew and recruit extra crew. But unfortunately a global pandemic got in the way of training up those staff, whilst long serving staff continued to retire.
 
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Dai Corner

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Unless you're completely new to this forum, you will know that since 2018, TfW has been on a massive recruitment drive to both replace retiring train crew and recruit extra crew. But unfortunately a global pandemic got in the way of training up those staff, whilst long serving staff continued to retire.
Yes. I'm rather bored of hearing about the reasons/excuses

I see they are running the Newport-Crosskeys today. The Cheltenhams and 231s should be a higher priority. At least they do/will carry some passengers.
 
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Caaardiff

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Yes. I'm rather bored of hearing about the reasons/excuses

I see they are running the Newport-Crosskeys today. The Cheltenhams and 231s should be a higher priority. At least they do/will carry some passengers.


Newport - Crosskeys has been postponed up until this week for the exact reason of freeing up train crew. There's also many political pressures in getting it up and running again. The issues with cancellations, mainly seen on the weekend isn't necessarily down to a shortage of train crew, but more linked to overtime not being taken because a lot of it is overtime or last minute sickness.

Cheltenhams/231's a higher priority than what exactly?
The 231's are out in full force today, and no other cancellations as far as I can see. So not exactly sure what your point is. Running Newport-Crosskeys on a Monday isn't going to free up train crew on a weekend because of how the roster links work.
The only services cancelled for training/mileage accumulation runs as far as I know was one round trip on the Bidston for 230's and maybe one on the Rhymney line. Someone else may be able to confirm regarding Rhymney though. TfW are pushing to get the 231's in service so they can replace the failing 769 project. There's plenty of available paths to Cheltenham for mileage runs/training.
 
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Dai Corner

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Newport - Crosskeys has been postponed up until this week for the exact reason of freeing up train crew. There's also many political pressures in getting it up and running again. The issues with cancellations, mainly seen on the weekend isn't necessarily down to a shortage of train crew, but more linked to overtime not being taken because a lot of it is overtime or last minute sickness.

Cheltenhams/231's a higher priority than what exactly?
The 231's are out in full force today, and no other cancellations as far as I can see. So not exactly sure what your point is. Running Newport-Crosskeys on a Monday isn't going to free up train crew on a weekend because of how the roster links work.
The only services cancelled for training/mileage accumulation runs as far as I know was one round trip on the Bidston for 230's and maybe one on the Rhymney line. Someone else may be able to confirm regarding Rhymney though. TfW are pushing to get the 231's in service so they can replace the failing 769 project. There's plenty of available paths to Cheltenham for mileage runs/training.
So instead of running empty trains between Newport and Crosskeys train the crews on 231s
 

markymark2000

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How is putting on a rail replacement bus worse than cancelling a service altogether and providing no alternative transport? If no drivers/guards are available, or a path has been taken by a training run, the only other alternative will be to cancel a service and provide no replacement transport at all.
In fairness, a number of RRBs run and get overtaken by the next train anyway (TFW have one 20:52 off Chester to Manchester Picc and the 21:52 train overtakes the 20:52 bus at Newton Le Willows). For any stations which aren't covered by an overtaking train, in my experience, passengers prefer to wait for the next train if it is only an hour later if the delay is minimal. Therefore, in this instance, the only people who would benefit significantly from this 20:52 bus would be people travelling to stations between and including Chester and Warrington Bank Quay, beyond Bank Quay, it's easier to wait for the next train.

It's all a case by case basis as to whether a RRB should be put on.


The only services cancelled for training/mileage accumulation runs as far as I know was one round trip on the Bidston for 230's and maybe one on the Rhymney line. Someone else may be able to confirm regarding Rhymney though. TfW are pushing to get the 231's in service so they can replace the failing 769 project. There's plenty of available paths to Cheltenham for mileage runs/training.
Halton Curve is reduced. Should be hourly, but it runs as 2 hourly with the other paths being used for supposedly training but those paths are rarely used. This line is actually used as well, good numbers using the Halton Curve trains.
 

Caaardiff

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In fairness, a number of RRBs run and get overtaken by the next train anyway (TFW have one 20:52 off Chester to Manchester Picc and the 21:52 train overtakes the 20:52 bus at Newton Le Willows). For any stations which aren't covered by an overtaking train, in my experience, passengers prefer to wait for the next train if it is only an hour later if the delay is minimal. Therefore, in this instance, the only people who would benefit significantly from this 20:52 bus would be people travelling to stations between and including Chester and Warrington Bank Quay, beyond Bank Quay, it's easier to wait for the next train.

It's all a case by case basis as to whether a RRB should be put on.



Halton Curve is reduced. Should be hourly, but it runs as 2 hourly with the other paths being used for supposedly training but those paths are rarely used. This line is actually used as well, good numbers using the Halton Curve trains.
These were reduced because of mix of shortage of train crew but mainly lack of units. The explanation of both goes on and on but unit wise think unreliable 769's and even worse 230's.

So instead of running empty trains between Newport and Crosskeys train the crews on 231s
I'm pretty sure they are still doing mileage accumulation with other TOCs drivers on mainline routes. Any driver training will likely be on Valleys services as they will be running Rhymney line first, which mainline drivers don't sign.

Quite simply put TfW need to put as much as they can into train crew training in the North and South to get the new fleets in service as the bigger issue is lack of fleet. They've committed to returning to as much as pre-covid timetable as possible and could barely run the most recent timetable with the number of units they have.
 
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