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TfW new service between Bristol and Cardiff

zwk500

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This seems pointless duplication, something which I thought GBR was supposed to be very much against? Struggling to see the point of ‘one service per weekday’ running via Parkway, difficult to see much benefit to that other than TFW being able to put some posters up?
The service via parkway is to preserve route knowledge for diversion if the direct chord or Bristol Temple Meads is unavaiable for any reason.

This thread is also related to the services: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...gland-train-links-by-welsh-government.302957/
 
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Djgr

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This seems pointless duplication, something which I thought GBR was supposed to be very much against? Struggling to see the point of ‘one service per weekday’ running via Parkway, difficult to see much benefit to that other than TFW being able to put some posters up?
Is it pointless duplication to run more than one train per hour? After all surely everyone can just pile on that?

Incidentally when are First Great Western going to acknowledge on their website the event in 62 days time?
 

WelshBluebird

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I suspect the mods will want to merge threads, but to repeat what I have said there, these are very much not "pointless duplication".
For one, there is no existing South West Wales to Bristol Temple Meads direct service - so this is new.
And in addition, any extra capacity between Cardiff and Bristol, even if it is is a two car unit every other hour, is still worthwhile. Especially whilst GWR continue to frequently short form the Cardiff-Portsmouth Harbour services.
 
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mmh

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It's just handy that TFW are overflowing with spare units to start new services with. Oh.
 

rs98

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I suspect the mods will want to merge threads, but to repeat what I have said there, these are very much not "pointless duplication".
For one, there is no existing South West Wales to Bristol Temple Meads direct service - so this is new.
And in addition, any extra capacity between Cardiff and Bristol, even if it is is a two car unit every other hour, is still worthwhile. Especially whilst GWR continue to frequently short form the Cardiff-Portsmouth Harbour services.
Also especially useful in periods of disruption such as this morning where the GWR 0628, 0657 and 0727 departures from Cardiff were all cancelled even though the disruption was expected to be cleared by 0700. I imagine this could have been due to GWR stock (165/158s stabled near Temple Meads and 800/802s stabled at Stoke Gifford) not making it from Bristol to Wales in order to operate those services - unless they had an excess of stock stabled at Swansea but that doesn't make sense for the Cardiff to Bristol/Portsmouth/Exeter services. Having a second option coming from different depots provides some further resilience compared to the route via a tight change at Bristol Parkway.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Maybe the 158s released from the Cambrian could operate the services?
That completely undoes the point of releasing them from the Cambrian in the first place, which was to get RID of the 90s stock.

Also, they’re promised to GWR apparently.
 

Towers

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That completely undoes the point of releasing them from the Cambrian in the first place, which was to get RID of the 90s stock.

Also, they’re promised to GWR apparently.
One might suggest that TfW are hardly in a position to be getting precious about “90s stock”, given their ongoing exploits with brand new efforts!
 

DS25

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That completely undoes the point of releasing them from the Cambrian in the first place, which was to get RID of the 90s stock.

Also, they’re promised to GWR apparently.
I think 35 year old trains is better than no train though, but TfW seems to think differently
 

Caaardiff

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There are many class 197;s not in service today.

18/51 197[0s
8/26 197;1s

Management incompetence continues on a large scale
That means 51 in service, which is more than the 47-49 planned each day under the current maintenance setup. They were never going to use all 77 in service until the Cambrian changeover and Machynlleth Depot switching to 197s due to capacity constraints at CAF Chester.
 

JamesT

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This seems pointless duplication, something which I thought GBR was supposed to be very much against? Struggling to see the point of ‘one service per weekday’ running via Parkway, difficult to see much benefit to that other than TFW being able to put some posters up?
GBR may remove some duplication amongst its services when it eventually comes into existence. But TFW won’t be part of GBR so not particularly relevant.
 

Towers

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GBR may remove some duplication amongst its services when it eventually comes into existence. But TFW won’t be part of GBR so not particularly relevant.
Assuming it won’t be TfW who govern the availability and use of paths across GBR’s network, GBR policy may well be relevant in such situations one would think?!
 

John R

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This seems pointless duplication, something which I thought GBR was supposed to be very much against?
Think of the parallel of the two hourly Bristol to Oxford service, which everyone seems to welcome. It could also be regarded as pointless duplication, in that the cities are connected with one easy change at Didcot.

Now replace Oxford with "Major towns cities in South and West Wales west of Cardiff". Those areas too will soon benefit from direct trains to the largest city in the region. So why not?
 

contrex

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Think of the parallel of the two hourly Bristol to Oxford service, which everyone seems to welcome. It could also be regarded as pointless duplication, in that the cities are connected with one easy change at Didcot.

Now replace Oxford with "Major towns cities in South and West Wales west of Cardiff". Those areas too will soon benefit from direct trains to the largest city in the region. So why not?
Every Wednesday my wife and I (both retired) like have a day out somewhere from Bristol using our free (bus) / reduced (senior railcards) old-codger travel concessions. We often go to Cardiff but the idea of enduring a two-car Class 150 to or from there doesn't appeal, even if they might stop at Stapleton Road.
 
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John R

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Every Wednesday my wife and I (both retired) like have a day out somewhere from Bristol using our free (bus) / reduced (senior railcards) old-codger travel concessions. We often go to Cardiff but the idea of enduring a two-car Class 150 to or from there doesn't appeal, even if they might stop at Stapleton Road.
Firstly, you are not the target market, which is for passengers west of Cardiff to have a through service to Bristol.

And the service won’t be operated by Class 150s, but by Class 197s, which are about 40 years newer.
 

Coleridge

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And the service won’t be operated by Class 150s, but by Class 197s, which are about 40 years newer.

Will they, though? TfW doesn't seem to have enough 197s to operate its existing Cheltenham services, never mind a new route to Bristol.
 

mmh

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And the service won’t be operated by Class 150s, but by Class 197s, which are about 40 years newer.
Except when the 197 that should have run it is sat broken in a siding in Chester instead.
 

Snow1964

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And the service won’t be operated by Class 150s, but by Class 197s, which are about 40 years newer.
Will they, though? TfW doesn't seem to have enough 197s to operate its existing Cheltenham services, never mind a new route to Bristol.
I wonder if the 2 or 3 car 197 is more of an introductory idea

Building all the Burns stations with 170m platforms, is sufficient for 8 x 20m EMU or 7car 197, my gut feeling is they will be getting new BEMUs or tri-mode stock to enlarge the fleet, because otherwise why build the stations with serious commuter length platforms

Also if Swansea District line, and the turnback at Burry Port (part of plans, but not yet funded) happens, then there is chance the trains would run as single units from west Wales, but double units on Swansea/Bridgend to Bristol section, bit like how SWR doubles up on Waterloo-Southampton section, but continues west as single units
 

Jez

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Will they, though? TfW doesn't seem to have enough 197s to operate its existing Cheltenham services, never mind a new route to Bristol.
The Bristol service is an extention to the current fast West Wales-Cardiff (the hours they dont go to Manchester) so will only require 1 extra diagram I think. Id be very surprised if it was anything other than a 197 on the Bristol service. Of course thats not to say a Sprinter couldnt cover the occasional service as they do now.

The Cheltenham (and Maesteg/Ebbw Vale) are more stand alone services and eventually these are to be 231's so it makes more sense to put a Sprinter onto these to cover when they are short of 197s.

However despite all this TFW really need to improve 197 availability soon.
 

fgwrich

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Well, I’ve not seen it posted anywhere on here yet (apologies if so!) but TfW has completed a test run last month from Cardiff to Temple Meads and back utilising 197s).

(Not my video)

 

Caaardiff

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Will they, though? TfW doesn't seem to have enough 197s to operate its existing Cheltenham services, never mind a new route to Bristol.
It's highly likely they will mainly be 197s, as most of the Bristol services are either formed from or will form Manchester services from West Wales. If Sprinters are still floating about after the 231's move to Mainline, then they'll probably end up covering Pembroke Dock or Newport - Ebbw Vale services.
 

WelshBluebird

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Well, I’ve not seen it posted anywhere on here yet (apologies if so!) but TfW has completed a test run last month from Cardiff to Temple Meads and back utilising 197s).

(Not my video)

They are teasing me with showing it stopping at Ashley Down there haha! Last I saw it was included on the Burns station service plans that are to come in the future but not these initial services.
 

contrex

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They are teasing me with showing it stopping at Ashley Down there haha! Last I saw it was included on the Burns station service plans that are to come in the future but not these initial services.
I was at Stapleton Road this morning and 150209+150279 in TfW colours went through at quite a lick on the Up Filton Relief running as 3R03 1100 Bristol High Level Siding to Cardiff West. Route learning maybe?
 

John R

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Route learning maybe?
Post 358 suggested that when drawing our attention to the movements, and it seems the only logical explanation, given there are several such services a day over several days.
 

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