Tfw letters - court summons

[Game05]

I have deliberately bought child tickets as I had started a new job which required me to get the train everyday and I didn’t have the money to pay for it everyday as it is £8.40 return everyday. I only intended on buying these until my pay day. I was buying tickets online and it didn’t work and was met by a revenue protection officer had to fill out form have had a letter in the post asking for my version of events have given it saying I know it was wrong and I am happy to pay to cover the cost of my tickets owed. They replied vaguely stating that they have considered my letter but matters may still be taken to court and I have 14 days to write back anything. They have not mention anything back about a fine to me. Should I write back or wait as I have written once already. I don’t know what to do i know what I did was wrong and it won’t happen again, I’m a student going to university soon and have never broken the law in my life and have learnt my lesson.

 

[30907]

Wait till you hear from them, which may be months. If they do proceed to prosecution, it's still worth trying again to acheive an out of court settlement. I have just come across this post on another thread, and I hope the author won't mind me quoting it with slight alterations.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caught-altered-ticket-standsted-express.195645/

The likelihood of success will also depend on your attitude towards the company and its' staff, but remember that (your action) is usually seen as a wilful act with intent to avoid a payment.

If I were you, once you get your letter I would write to the Prosecution Department as follows:

1. Express a sincere apology to the company and their staff for your actions, and recognise that your failure to pay your correct fare before travelling is wrong.
2. Recognise that fare evasion is a serious matter costing the rail industry huge sums annually
3. If this is the first time that you have been spoken to by a rail company about a ticketing issue, say so and ask if the matter might be resolved by an administrative disposal rather than prosecution
4. Offer to pay the fare due and all of the company's reasonably incurred costs in dealing with this matter
5. If you have no past history of any similar matters, say so and give a written undertaking not to travel without a valid ticket in future.
6. Explain that you realise your actions were unacceptable and you believe that you acted 'out of character' as a result of lacking funds. Say that you now worry that a conviction will result in a loss of your good name and could badly affect your future employment.

 

[cuccir]

They replied vaguely stating that they have considered my letter but matters may still be taken to court and I have 14 days to write back anything. They have not mention anything back about a fine to me. Should I write back or wait as I have written once already.

I think you should reply to the letter, reiterating your regret, that you've learnt from the experience, and offering to cover the fare owed + expenses.

I don't think you need to say anything more about the actual incident in the new letter, and in fact I'd advise against it; you've apologised and explained what happened and all that further discussion could do is complicate matters.

 

[gray1404]

You will know what was said in the conversation between yourself and the person you spoke to on the day in question. As you say it was Transport for Wales I think it would be fair to assume you were stopped by someone from Transport Investigations Limited who act on their behalf in cases like this. Even if it wasn't, it would be fair to say it will be them who will be in contact with you. We saw a recent case on this forum where another poster was fairly certain that a Caseworker had been looking at the threads on this forum. I would therefore ensure you are careful what you say on here and don't incriminate yourself any further or say anything that could make things worse.

Back to the conversation that occurred, you will know if the focus was purely on the problem with your ticket on that day in question alone or if you admitted to doing it on previous occasions also. It is not possible to determine this from your opening post with a total degree of certainty. Depending on what was said, if the focus was purely on the day in question, I would focus on that on your reply and not incriminate yourself further. However, if you admitted to doing it on other occasions also it is highly likely this was noted in the report submitted by the staff member. Train companies take an even more dim view on ongoing attempts to avoid paying fares and, although not impossible, it can be somewhat harder to obtain an out of court settlement.

How old were you on the day you were stopped? I am wondering if you are only 16 or 17 years of age as that can make a difference. As others have said, you can't do anything now until you receive a letter. This can take anything up to around 6 months (often sooner but still with a wait) it is important that you keep an eye on any post you receive for the next 6 months at the address you gave on the day. If you are going to be away for any period of more then just a few days, have someone reliable keep an eye on your mail for you and make sure they take a photo (and also retain) any letters you received and send a photo of it to you on your phone. When you do receive a letter you will need to respond promptly and, if a settlement is offered at some point during the exchanges, pay that promptly - so get saving now.

Before you respond to any letters you receive you are welcome to draft a copy your reply and post it here for advise. If uploading any letters you intend to send or anything you have received edit at any personal details. Keep a copy of everything you send back and either send this by email (if possible) or pay the extra quid (just under) to send this Recorded Delivery. You reply should be no more then one page, short and to the point. You should demonstrate you are sorry for what you have done, assure them that this will not happen again and offer to pay the fare due plus the costs they have incurred in investigating this matter..

I am no fan of Transport Investigations Limited. They are one of the harder agents to deal with. Time and time again we have seen posters have to send almost the same letter to them several times before they might offer an out of court settlement. They tend to send the same letters to everyone and even when someone offers something in mitigation they totally ignore this and respond with a "we see no reason why this matter shouldn't proceed to Court....." type response. This can be very frustrating but I tell you this so you are prepared for such a situation, ensure you are persistent and don't take it personally if at first you appear to be making no headway.

There is nothing more you can do now other then wait for the letter, but you can assure yourself you have an idea of what to do when it does arrive.

 

[Darandio]

I am no fan of Transport Investigations Limited. They are one of the harder agents to deal with. Time and time again we have seen posters have to send almost the same letter to them several times before they might offer an out of court settlement. They tend to send the same letters to everyone and even when someone offers something in mitigation they totally ignore this and respond with a "we see no reason why this matter shouldn't proceed to Court....." type response. This can be very frustrating but I tell you this so you are prepared for such a situation, ensure you are persistent and don't take it personally if at first you appear to be making no headway.

From what has been written in the OP there seems no issue with them proceeding to court in this case. There is no automatic right to a settlement.

 

[gray1404]

From what has been written in the OP there seems no issue with them proceeding to court in this case. There is no automatic right to a settlement.

For the avoidance of doubt, I too agree there is no automatic right to an out of court settlement. That said, there is nothing wrong with asking for one and in financial terms it can benfit the TOC as they get to keep all of the money paid in settlement out of court. But it is by no means a right and it is not unknown for cases to proceed directly to court.

 

[Llanigraham]

I think that the responses from members here so far have missed, due to lack of punctuation, that it appears that TIL have already been in touch with the OP and he has responded to them. Note the highlighted words and what I think the sentences are below:

I have deliberately bought child tickets as I had started a new job which required me to get the train everyday and I didn’t have the money to pay for it everyday as it is £8.40 return everyday. I only intended on buying these until my pay day. I was buying tickets online and it didn’t work and was met by a revenue protection officer had to fill out form
have had a letter in the post asking for my version of events
have given it saying I know it was wrong and I am happy to pay to cover the cost of my tickets owed.
They replied vaguely stating that they have considered my letter but matters may still be taken to court and I have 14 days to write back anything. They have not mention anything back about a fine to me. Should I write back or wait as I have written once already. I don’t know what to do i know what I did was wrong and it won’t happen again, I’m a student going to university soon and have never broken the law in my life and have learnt my lesson.

I think that the only option now open to the OP is to write a further apologetic letter offering to pay all the costs and hope that TfW and TIL will accept that, but it does appear from past comments that TfW are being as tough as ATW were over these sorts of cases.

 

[Game05]

Hi all, I’m sorry I typed this in a bit of a rush so everything wasn’t made entirely clear.
After receiving my first letter from the company mid December I then wrote back explaining my situation and that I was sincerely sorry and won’t happen again, in this first letter I vaguely offered to pay for any expenses at the end of the letter but didn’t specify. I have since received a letter back from them last week which was similar to the first saying they have considered my letter but may still be an option to be taken to the magistrates court. Should I now write back explaining more in depth that I am sorry and it won’t happen again as I made a silly mistake and offer in more detail to pay the costs I owe them as well as an administrative fees which I may have cost them? Or should I just wait to see how it progress as I am not sure what to do because I want to write further to express my knowledge of my mistakes so they can see I am being genuine

 

[gray1404]

You should reply back to them again stating that you are sorry for your mistake and ask that they consider an our of court settlement. State that you wish to pay the fare due and the costs involved in investigating this matter. You should also make it clear that you understand the serious of your mistake and it won't happen again.

 

[Game05]

* this is my initial draft letter back to the company could you please tell me what you think and give feedback thanks *

I would like to sincerely apologise to the company and staff for my actions. I recognise my failure in paying the correct fare is wrong and I can honestly say I have learnt my lesson and will always travel with a valid ticket in the future. Looking back I believe my actions were unacceptable and I acted out of character as a result of lacking funds.


This is a first breach of the law for myself and as I am hoping to attend university this year to secure the best possible future and job for myself I would not want anything to jeopardise this in any way.


As this is my first time being spoken to regarding a ticketing offence I was hoping it could be resolved by administrative disposal rather than a prosecution as I also do not want to use up anymore valuable time or resources.


I have recognised that fare evasion is a serious matter and costs the rail industry large amounts each year. I am more than happy to pay the amount owed in fare which is £80, plus any additional administrative fees this matter may have cost the company.

Thankyou for your time.

 

[Fare-Cop]

I hope that you will take this in the spirit that it is intended although I recognise that you may not like my first comment. It is nonetheless intended to be constructive and helpful

I have deliberately bought child tickets as I had started a new job which required me to get the train everyday and I didn’t have the money to pay for it everyday

Your admission that this was a deliberate action is very important. I notice that you say you have written back to the company and you appear to have repeatedly used the phrase 'it was a mistake'. Speaking as someone who had to read and make decisions in these sort of things for many years, I can honestly say that this is a written response that is often counterproductive.

Staff in prosecutors offices are fully aware that where there is evidence of a deliberate attempt to pay other than the correct fare, the only thing that might be called a 'mistake' is being caught and referring to the deliberate action as a mistake may get little sympathy from these staff.

Sorry that's blunt, but it is a true description of file assessment in a very high number of cases.

I only intended on buying these until my pay day.

You would have been better advised not to have mentioned this and if you haven't already done so, you should avoid it.

I know I have sometimes suggested referring to 'lack of funds' in cases where an irrational response to sudden circumstance has resulted in one off action, but that isn't the case here.

Although I understand that you are trying to clarify your actions, this suggests a pre-meditated intention not to pay correct rail fares over an extended period of time.

I was buying tickets online and it didn’t work and was met by a revenue protection officer had to fill out form have had a letter in the post asking for my version of events have given it saying I know it was wrong and I am happy to pay to cover the cost of my tickets owed.

Once again, simply admitting guilt and only offering to pay the outstanding fares will not have got a great deal of sympathy

They replied vaguely stating that they have considered my letter but matters may still be taken to court and I have 14 days to write back anything. They have not mention anything back about a fine to me.

It is likely that they may apply for a Summons to have the matter heard by a Court, but there is no reason why you shouldn't still try to achieve a settlement, thereby avoiding conviction. I'm grateful to 30907 for referring to a post that I made on an earlier thread and I'd repeat that these points are the issues that you should concentrate on trying to put over in a sincere manner:

1. Express a sincere apology to the rail company and their staff for your actions, and recognise that your failure to pay your correct fare before travelling is wrong.
2. Recognise that fare evasion is a serious matter costing the rail industry huge sums annually
3. If this is the first time that you have been spoken to by a rail company about a ticketing issue, say so and ask if this matter might be resolved by an administrative disposal rather than prosecution
4. Offer to pay the fare due and all of the company's reasonably incurred costs in dealing with this matter
5. If you have no past history of any similar matters, say so and give a written undertaking not to travel without a valid ticket in future.
6. Explain that you realise your actions were unacceptable and you believe that you acted 'out of character' in doing so.