TFW First Class Validity In SP

[_225Queen_]

This is a bit of a long shot , and since even TFW and Seatfrog often get confusing for customer relations thought I’d jump in the forums for the first time.

So If travelling and I notice a service I’ve got a first class upgrade on has been set swapped from a mk4 set to a unit with standard plus but no first class what happens there? Would my upgrade for first be valid in standard plus , and if I used standard plus would it then be refundable due it not being ‘first class’?

If for whatever reason it wasn’t is there a priv discount on standard plus or not as I only have STD travel on my leisure card.

 

[jfollows]

I was under the impression that TfW does not charge for Standard Plus on its trains, that anyone can use these seats, but this may have changed since it was reported here in November.

In which case you can get a refund.

 

[_225Queen_]

I’ll see what happens anyway , if it is treated as SP or treated as first I’ll report back. I’m intrigued to see how they classify it considering it’s replacing a mk4 with first ticket holders going to be boarding naturally

 

[petemarconi]

I’ll see what happens anyway , if it is treated as SP or treated as first I’ll report back. I’m intrigued to see how they classify it considering it’s replacing a mk4 with first ticket holders going to be boarding naturally

I sat in standard plus last friday with a standard (advance) ticket, no problem when the ticket was checked/scanned.

 

[Lewisham2221]

The "Standard Plus" concept was thrown in the bin before it ever actually went live, the whole train is just standard class - albeit a small section has some fancier seats and tables - the branding will be removed in time.

You'll be entitled to a refund of the difference between the cost of a First and Standard ticket; if there's a trolley on board and you show your first class ticket to the host you may get a freebie from the trolley.

 

[_225Queen_]

Wonder what will happen then , if the 197s will go all standard or if SP becomes a small first section. But guard checked tickets only people in SP had 1st tickets so no further ideas on how SP works

 

[Krokodil]

Standard Plus has been permanently declassified

 

[_225Queen_]

Standard Plus has been permanently declassified

Out of curiosity is there anything saying this? TFW website still says standard plus is a thing and obviously on train full standard plus branding

 

[Wandering Pom]

TFW website still says standard plus is a thing

Where on the TfW website? On a search just now I wasn't offered a page describing it, and it's not shown as a facility available on trains in their PDF timetables or when using the journey planner for relevant journeys.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wonder what will happen then , if the 197s will go all standard or if SP becomes a small first section. But guard checked tickets only people in SP had 1st tickets so no further ideas on how SP works

It doesn't. I understand the issue with it was the lack of accessible provision meaning TfW were concerned about a possible discrimination case (though I think 185s lack wheelchair provision in 1st, as does the sham 1st in GTR's Electrostars and I think also 700s, so I'm interested in why this was decided to be different - does Welsh law differ?). Other trains (397s?) avoid this if they don't want excessive accessible toilet provision in short trains by having the wheelchair spaces *only* in First Class and offering a free upgrade to both the wheelchair user and a companion.

 

[_225Queen_]

It’s must have recently disappeared I’ve double checked and I can’t find where I remember seeing it , then again tfw website is quite dated still showing images of trains they don’t have in their fleet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2025 ==

Where on the TfW website? On a search just now I wasn't offered a page describing it, and it's not shown as a facility available on trains in their PDF timetables or when using the journey planner for relevant journeys.

I’ve found this , however intriguingly when you click it it sends you to a generic page rather than standard plus.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Out of curiosity is there anything saying this? TFW website still says standard plus is a thing and obviously on train full standard plus branding

It was never officially launched (although the branding was installed and the upgrade fares were in the system) so I can't imagine they'll do much shouting about it being "withdrawn" before it even started. There were stories about some over zealous guards charging the upgrade, but the fares have been removed now so that's no longer a possibility (unless they even more erroneously charged the first class upgrade). The units were running around without branding for months anyway, so people got used to sitting there and continue do so with the branding in place. I don't think there's any rush to remove the branding, but any half decent guard would advise people that they could sit there if there were empty seats in that section and people standing elsewhere.

 

[Watershed]

If first class isn't provided then you're entitled to a refund of the upgrade you paid - including the platform fee, I would have said. It's less clear whether it gives you a right to travel on the next TfW train that has first class (which would usually be 2 hours later on this route); it would certainly be good customer service to allow this but I'm not sure what TfW's policy is on this.

For reference, the first class supplements appear to be discountable by Railcards (including 16-25 and 26-30 Railcards, which don't usually offer discounts on first class walk-up fares), however not by Privs. Not sure whether that is an error however it is how TfW have set up the supplements in the fares data.

Alternatively if you go to a ticket office before boarding, you may be able to pay the excess to the first class fare, which may be cheaper in some circumstances (e.g. if you have a Priv that allows discounts on walk-up first class fares).

 

[Tevion539]

Tfw guard here - can confirm, SP is permanently declassified. You should not be charged extra or be expected to pay extra to sit here. If your MK4 has been swapped for a unit you should claim a refund on your first class portion.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Standard Plus upgrade fares are still shown in brfares (Std Plus Upgrde).
They are 50% of the Business Zone/Premium upgrade fares shown for Mk4 journeys (scroll down to "Other fares" in the link.

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[Tevion539]

The Standard Plus upgrade fares are still shown in brfares (Std Plus Upgrde).
They are 50% of the Business Zone/Premium upgrade fares shown for Mk4 journeys (scroll down to "Other fares" in the link.

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

the fare is no longer in STAR mobile. There is no way for it to be charged.

 

[_225Queen_]

Fair enough interesting to know , I’ve already sent a refund request anyway to Seatfrog , I believe depending on guards discretion they could let you on the next one with an upgrade depending on space but naturally only if you had a flexible ticket.

 

[Tevion539]

Fair enough interesting to know , I’ve already sent a refund request anyway to Seatfrog , I believe depending on guards discretion they could let you on the next one with an upgrade depending on space but naturally only if you had a flexible ticket.

Guard always has discretion that can be used.

 

[MrJeeves]

I’ve already sent a refund request anyway to Seatfrog

For declassification, you have to get in touch with the TOC.

My train was declassified

There may be times when the rail operator needs to declassify a train service. This pesky situation happens when First Class seating is opened up to all ticket holders and the First Class service is withdrawn. Typically, this happens after earlier trains have been cancelled or are seriously delayed. If you find yourself with a Seatfrog upgrade and your train is declassified, you'll need to contact the rail operator to discuss a refund.

https://help.seatfrog.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360001296815-Can-I-get-a-refund-on-my-Upgrade

 

[_225Queen_]

I asked TOC but they refused , anyways seatfrog have literally processed a refund anyway.

 

[MrJeeves]

I asked TOC but they refused , anyways seatfrog have literally processed a refund anyway.

It's anyone's guess when you seemingly can't even rely on a company's own FAQs!