TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[Kite159]

The plan is to still have a unit out for sometime in May, it's all hands on deck to try and make it happen. Most likely it will be either 398023, 398029 or 398031. How realiable these units prove to be though when in service - only time will tell.

31st May when a 398 runs a single unadvertised additional service between Taffs Well & Radyr, box ticked lol

 

[VR494]

Another issue that's got to be addressed is the lack of a platformed door on the otherside of the unit. You've got a potential entrapment issue for one, if the unit was to stop somewhere unsuitable and the driver was unable to get into the saloon. Also change of crews are going to have to take place in other locations outside of Cardiff Central. For an example on an event day, if the driver cannot come out via the saloon etc.

 

[craigybagel]

Another issue that's got to be addressed is the lack of a platformed door on the otherside of the unit. You've got a potential entrapment issue for one, if the unit was to stop somewhere unsuitable and the driver was unable to get into the saloon. Also change of crews are going to have to take place in other locations outside of Cardiff Central. For an example on an event day, if the driver cannot come out via the saloon etc.

Curious as to how this is an issue when these same crews were working 143s and 153s on the same routes until recently, with no cab access at all except through the saloon.....

 

[VR494]

Curious as to how this is an issue when these same crews were working 143s and 153s on the same routes until recently, with no cab access at all except through the saloon.....

There's a few differences, the doors are not directly behind the cab like the pacers or the 15x units, it's a considerable distance back that could be blocked with standees, and when opening one of the local doors in the saloon there are no steps to climb down.

 

[AdamWW]

There's a few differences, the doors are not directly behind the cab like the pacers or the 15x units, it's a considerable distance back that could be blocked with standees, and when opening one of the local doors in the saloon there are no steps to climb down.

Do trains get so full it's physically impossible for someone to get through them? That would suggest passengers would end up missing stops as they couldn't reach the doors.

For a while I had a regular commute on 153s that were stuffed full with standees and sometimes left people behind. But passengers always managed to squash out of the way so that the guard could reach the door key switch and then the door controls.

Interesting point about the lack of steps though.

 

[VR494]

Do trains get so full it's physically impossible for someone to get through them? That would suggest passengers would end up missing stops as they couldn't reach the doors.

For a while I had a regular commute on 153s that were stuffed full with standees and sometimes left people behind. But passengers always managed to squash out of the way so that the guard could reach the door key switch and then the door controls.

Interesting point about the lack of steps though.

The pacers used to experience that a lot, sometimes the guard could not even get back on to close the door.

Someone recently also pointed out the position of the power brake controller. When sat in the seat, your arm is constantly elevated at a height, which may lead to shoulder issues long term.

 

[bahnause]

The pacers used to experience that a lot, sometimes the guard could not even get back on to close the door.

Someone recently also pointed out the position of the power brake controller. When sat in the seat, your arm is constantly elevated at a hight, which may lead to shoulder issues long term.

To me, it looks like the standard height for many modern vehicles intended for full or partial tram operation.

 

[VR494]

To me, it looks like the standard height for many modern vehicles intended for full or partial tram operation.

It depends on the individual sat in the seat I guess. If you're shorter it could be an issue, I've attached a picture showing it from the best angle I could find.

 

[800001]

It depends on the individual sat in the seat I guess. If you're shorter it could be an issue, I've attached a picture showing it from the best angle I could find.

Surely the seat adjusts in height and also moves forwards and backwards so that the driver can position themselves into a comfortable position?

 

[VR494]

Surely the seat adjusts in height and also moves forwards and backwards so that the driver can position themselves into a comfortable position?

Yeah, it has air suspension as well, but they also have to be able to operate the foot pedals too! There are three incase anyone is interested, the sander, DSD and mic activation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2026 ==

Some testing around the city line and Cardiff Central in the next few hours

Realtime Trains | 3Q41 0108 Treherbert to Cardiff Central | 24/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3Q41 0108 departure from Treherbert to Cardiff Central on 24/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Daniel Boone]

Yeah, it has air suspension as well, but they also have to be able to operate the foot pedals too! There are three incase anyone is interested, the sander, DSD and mic activation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2026 ==

Some testing around the city line and Cardiff Central in the next few hours

Realtime Trains | 3Q41 0108 Treherbert to Cardiff Central | 24/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3Q41 0108 departure from Treherbert to Cardiff Central on 24/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Any idea whether it's a single unit or if it's doubled up?

 

[VR494]

Any idea whether it's a single unit or if it's doubled up?

3Q41 has had to terminate early, due to a possession no test trains are allowed past Radyr.

Same runs planned again tomorrow morning, early hours, and it should be a double set.

Realtime Trains | 3Q40 0010 Taffs Well Depot to Treherbert | 25/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3Q40 0010 departure from Taffs Well Depot to Treherbert on 25/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Q41 0108 Treherbert to Cardiff Central | 25/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3Q41 0108 departure from Treherbert to Cardiff Central on 25/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Q42 0220 Cardiff Central to Radyr | 25/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3Q42 0220 departure from Cardiff Central to Radyr on 25/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[bahnause]

Yeah, it has air suspension as well, but they also have to be able to operate the foot pedals too! There are three incase anyone is interested, the sander, DSD and mic activation.

The Tramlinks are now in use on numerous networks. Their ergonomics have likely been tested multiple times. In the case of Bernmobil's Tramlink, a specialist in workplace ergonomics and physiotherapist has even documented this on YouTube. The video expressly states that the device must be easy for all employees to operate, regardless of their stature. All of our newer vehicles have adjustable pedals.

 

[chargesmith]

The trouble is Stadler are just completing an order that was placed many years ago, and only 3 more units are left to be produced I believe. Upgraded batteries would be ideal, but I don't think the product in general offers that at the moment.

What you may see though is these units may end up just being confined to the Cardiff Bay branch from the three peaks. The range is too much of a risk to have them fail in Cardiff Central and end up rocking up costs in delays. Seeing as some stations are also located in PES sections on the TAM, any delay for toilet stops is also out of the question. They need to keep going to stay under the wires as much as possible.

The distance between the wires on the Bay branch is not insignificant (more than 2 miles). Why do you think that these units will have no issues on the Bay line but that it's too much of a risk to go only a little further on battery on the bit between Cathays and Ninian Park?

The people who designed the Metro are intelligent people, you seem to have no faith in them whatsoever to have designed the system with all extremes in mind.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2026 ==

There's a few differences, the doors are not directly behind the cab like the pacers or the 15x units, it's a considerable distance back that could be blocked with standees, and when opening one of the local doors in the saloon there are no steps to climb down.

Given crew transfers currently happen at Cardiff Central where practically everyone leaves the train or is boarding I don't see how the route to the cab is going to be blocked with standees.

 

[snalty]

398033 hanging around junction 32

 

[The_Train]

View attachment 198947
398033 hanging around junction 32

Any idea where it is heading?

 

[VR494]

Any idea where it is heading?

Some will be transferring to Treherbert sidings in the coming days.

 

[chargesmith]

Any idea where it is heading?

Assuming it's coming into the depot and not leaving, check if there are any road closures planned on the Taffs Well Northbound slip road on the A470, this is how they got the first units in before the rail link was completed, and it looks to me like the boundary fence has not been finished in this area yet, suggesting they are planning to bring more units in this way.

However the depot was nowhere near ready back then so there may be another way to bring units in from the road now.

 

[VR494]

The distance between the wires on the Bay branch is not insignificant (more than 2 miles). Why do you think that these units will have no issues on the Bay line but that it's too much of a risk to go only a little further on battery on the bit between Cathays and Ninian Park?

The people who designed the Metro are intelligent people, you seem to have no faith in them whatsoever to have designed the system with all extremes in mind.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2026 ==


Given crew transfers currently happen at Cardiff Central where practically everyone leaves the train or is boarding I don't see how the route to the cab is going to be blocked with standees.

I agree with you that yes, they may have been intelligent people and had a great vision of what they wanted with the 398. However, there have been and continue to be persistent mistakes made around common sense elements. Which either says to me there’s a common misunderstanding or communication issue between teams, or just plain incompetence or ignorance to operational colleagues.

When you have a team of engineers advising against an idea and pointing out the problems you are about to cause, backed with internal communication from senior managers from various departments, but choosing to ignore all of this and continue on is not the right approach.

Having a fleet of units that cannot be used to step up services on other the parts of the network, a battery with bare minimum range, a lack of empathy for customers with disabilities and concerns around toilets, a depot that only one form of traction can use, and there’s many more.

There’s quite a few people not feeling the vibe at current, they are not negative energy as previously mentioned, just fed up of having to constantly defend poor decision.

If an architect told you the foundations would not support the build, but you built it anyway, then complained you had substantial subsidence. Or you bought your dream shower and bathroom only to realise it doesn’t fit - I think you get the idea.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2026 ==

Assuming it's coming into the depot and not leaving, check if there are any road closures planned on the Taffs Well Northbound slip road on the A470, this is how they got the first units in before the rail link was completed, and it looks to me like the boundary fence has not been finished in this area yet, suggesting they are planning to bring more units in this way.

However the depot was nowhere near ready back then so there may be another way to bring units in from the road now.

I’ve heard potentially they could be coming on road to Treherbert.

 

[chargesmith]

I’ve heard potentially they could be coming on road to Treherbert.

That would be interesting if true, I vaguely remember seeing old photos somewhere of some the Pacers being delivered to Treherbert by road.

As for your other comments I find it hard to believe that senior staff at TfW or any other TOC are capable of that level of incompetence and/or ignorance. It's a safety critical industry after all.

They don't just make it up as they go along and hope for the best. A team of people would be responsible for designing this system so that it will work well 99.9% of the time and build in mitigations and procedures for when it doesn't.

 

[VR494]

That would be interesting if true, I vaguely remember seeing old photos somewhere of some the Pacers being delivered to Treherbert by road.

As for your other comments I find it hard to believe that senior staff at TfW or any other TOC are capable of that level of incompetence and/or ignorance. It's a safety critical industry after all.

They don't just make it up as they go along and hope for the best. A team of people would be responsible for designing this system so that it will work well 99.9% of the time and build in mitigations and procedures for when it doesn't.

Sadly the government have a vision for the metro and unfortunately the staff are here to just deliver it. It’s no longer about what is actually practical and works, rather does it meet the needs of an excel spreadsheet.

In terms of safety, I’d say it’s actually improved since I joined the railway back in the day. The lack of communication, common sense and the ability to waste money though has not.

The 398’s will hopefully be out soon, and it’ll be the passenger’s reaction that will be what really matters.

 

[chargesmith]

Thoughts / observations travelling on the 756s today:

Door opening at my station took around 20-30 seconds today so I think driver opening will speed up journeys massively with the 398s.

Train arrived 2 mins early to a station and had to wait for the timetable to catch up, so I think even the heavier 756s are still quite held back by the timetable which is presumably due to still using slower 150s on Ponty-Bay services.

I only saw one person use the onboard toilet on my journeys today. Last week the toilet was out of service on the train I was on and nobody seemed to mind.

Not very scientific I know, but would be interested to see if other people's experiences tally.

 

[VR494]

Thoughts / observations travelling on the 756s today:

Door opening at my station took around 20-30 seconds today so I think driver opening will speed up journeys massively with the 398s.

Train arrived 2 mins early to a station and had to wait for the timetable to catch up, so I think even the heavier 756s are still quite held back by the timetable which is presumably due to still using slower 150s on Ponty-Bay services.

I only saw one person use the onboard toilet on my journeys today. Last week the toilet was out of service on the train I was on and nobody seemed to mind.

Not very scientific I know, but would be interested to see if other people's experiences tally.

The current timetable does not really show the potential the 756’s are actually capable of.

The toilets are regularly used, especially on weekends!

I’m also surprised Aslef are going to allow these things out on a heavy rail network, knowing their drivers are exposed to higher risks. All that glass at the front too.

They are less robust than a conventional train, and given the vegetation on the valleys, one is no doubt going to encounter a fallen tree at some point. It’s all well having a minor collision with a road vehicle, but hitting an obstruction at 60mph is another thing.

 

[John R]

The current timetable does not really show the potential the 756’s are actually capable of.

The toilets are regularly used, especially on weekends!

I’m also surprised Aslef are going to allow these things out on a heavy rail network, knowing their drivers are exposed to higher risks. All that glass at the front too.

They are less robust than a conventional train, and given the vegetation on the valleys, one is no doubt going to encounter a fallen tree at some point. It’s all well having a minor collision with a road vehicle, but hitting an obstruction at 60mph is another thing.

It feels like you come up with a new reason every day why the units are unsuitable.

 

[Avowedsevern]

“I only saw one person use the toilet during my journey, therefore the toilets are pointless” has to be one of the funniest things I’ve read on here.

“I only use the toilet in my house once a day, therefore I have decided to get rid of it and instead make a daily trip to my grans to use hers” energy.

 

[chargesmith]

“I only saw one person use the toilet during my journey, therefore the toilets are pointless” has to be one of the funniest things I’ve read on here.

“I only use the toilet in my house once a day, therefore I have decided to get rid of it and instead make a daily trip to my grans to use hers” energy.

Glad I somehow entertained you with something I didn't say.

 

[bahnause]

I’m also surprised Aslef are going to allow these things out on a heavy rail network, knowing their drivers are exposed to higher risks. All that glass at the front too.

They are less robust than a conventional train, and given the vegetation on the valleys, one is no doubt going to encounter a fallen tree at some point. It’s all well having a minor collision with a road vehicle, but hitting an obstruction at 60mph is another thing.

This is probably because the regulatory authorities, manufacturers, TOC and ASLEF have all exercised careful consideration when building, ordering or approving vehicles.

The concept of a vehicle that can be used as both a tram and a heavy rail vehicle is neither new nor unique. Appropriate standards are in place to optimise crash performance for their intended use. In Europe, these are EN 15227; in the UK, they are probably the same, just with a different name. 'Light' does not mean 'unsafe'; quite the contrary. The significantly better braking performance of such vehicles compared to mainline vehicles alone leads to a significant safety improvement. The Stadler Tramlink, used by Transport for Wales (TfW) and other transport companies, meets modern safety standards covering structural integrity and crash performance in collisions.

 

[VR494]

The inital pilot course for union officials is taking place next week. If all goes well, then instructors will start learning them from April, and drivers based out of Taffs well depot in May. The first unit in passenger service is planned for early June, subject to change.

There are only a handful of sets available to use that have passed their fault free hours, just over 10 or so out of the 33 are ready.

It’s going to take sometime, but later on this year Treherbert should start to see them coming onto the line as well, when their drivers start learning them after Taffs well.

It’s also rumoured a 756 may run between Rhymney and Barry as soon as the end of March in passenger service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Mar 2026 ==

It feels like you come up with a new reason every day why the units are unsuitable.

I’ll leave that opinion to the customers who will be travelling on these. They will have a shock compared to what they are used to on the 756’s.

But, if you liked the pacers for their ability to give a unique ride and experience, then these things certainly won’t disappoint.

 

[Daniel Boone]

It’s also rumoured a 756 may run between Rhymney and Barry as soon as the end of March in passenger service.

That's brilliant news

But, if you liked the pacers for their ability to give a unique ride and experience, then these things certainly won’t disappoint.

How do you mean? Is it bumpy? Rickety?

Happy St David's Day!

 

[VR494]

That's brilliant news

How do you mean? Is it bumpy? Rickety?

Happy St David's Day!

Yes, they do bounce and oscillate from side to side, just like a pacer, and accelerate quicker than a 756. There maybe announcements added asking customer’s to hold on tight please too!