TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[Bob Price]

The times are on Realtime trains, just search Detailed and STP and they all come up.

 

[tfw756rider]

The times are on Realtime trains, just search Detailed and STP and they all come up.

the 3Q00/3Q01/3Q02/3Q05/3Q10/3Q11/3Q12/3Q15 runs are all scheduled to run today (Tue 15/4/25), tomorrow (Wed 16/4/25), Thu 17/4/25 and Fri 18/4/25, yes? I may well go tomorrow (Wed 16/4/25).

 

[Jamesrob637]

the 3Q00/3Q01/3Q02/3Q05/3Q10/3Q11/3Q12/3Q15 runs are all scheduled to run today (Tue 15/4/25), tomorrow (Wed 16/4/25), Thu 17/4/25 and Fri 18/4/25, yes? I may well go tomorrow (Wed 16/4/25).

Don't bank on them running Friday, though you never know.

 

[tfw756rider]

Don't bank on them running Friday, though you never know.

Yeah, I since realised the significance of Friday.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I propose the nickname of "Jimmy" for the 398s...

Image shows a 398 adjacent to a photo of the late Jimmy Hill, a TV football commentator who was famous for, among other things, having a very long chin; both pictures are at the same angle and show an uncanny resemblance to each other.

Source of original image of Jimmy Hill unknown; source of picture of 398... widely circulated online a few days ago from the press event.

 

[tigermonstera]

TfW have published a press release about the 398s, including footage of them being tested: https://news.tfw.wales/news/new-electric-tram-trains-in-testing-for-south-wales-metro

Brand-new electric tram-trains are now being tested on the recently electrified Valleys railway lines, as TfW take another step forward with delivering the next phase of the South Wales Metro.

Andrew Gazzard, Head of Operational Readiness at TfW said: “Our teams now need to gain familiarisation and handling experience of the trains, and we need to embark on driver training later in the year.

 

[StarCrossing]

Crikey - they look tiny compared to the FLIRTs!

 

[D6975]

They make a Slim Jim look positively portly.

 

[AdamWW]

TfW have published a press release about the 398s, including footage of them being tested: https://news.tfw.wales/news/new-electric-tram-trains-in-testing-for-south-wales-metro

Since they're just talking about familiarisation and training, does that mean they did their however many hours of fault free running they need before delivery to Taffs Well?

The amount of time they've spent in the depot doing nothing suggests that there's been some sort of problem, even if TfW aren't willing to mention it.

 

[chargesmith]

Crikey - they look tiny compared to the FLIRTs!

They are about the same dimensions as a 150. I suspect given they have 36 398s just for TAM lines (TFW had 36 150s for all over Wales) most services will be two units making them a similar length to the FLIRTs. And with the 4tph to each terminus that's a big increase in capacity.

 

[John R]

They are about the same dimensions as a 150. I suspect given they have 36 398s just for TAM lines (TFW had 36 150s for all over Wales) most services will be two units making them a similar length to the FLIRTs. And with the 4tph to each terminus that's a big increase in capacity.

I recall that the plan was that the 4tph services would alternate between being a single unit and a double unit. Whether that is still the case idk, but the number of units built was based on that.

 

[tigermonstera]

As per the Cardiff Crossrail Phase 1a outline business case:

Of the 36 CVL vehicles, 24 are required for the core 4 trains per hour service on the Treherbert, Aberdare,
and Merthyr Tydfil routes, with three spare units for maintenance cover, and nine vehicles for
peak strengthening to meet passenger capacity.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I recall that the plan was that the 4tph services would alternate between being a single unit and a double unit. Whether that is still the case idk, but the number of units built was based on that.

Most likely doubles to Central and singles to the Bay.

 

[chrisjo]

So all four test runs were cancelled yesterday?

 

[Bob Price]

Photos are in a thread in the Photography section:

TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink photos/videos

Indeed it has. 398005 at Taffs Well this lunchtime. Video will follow

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[chargesmith]

Most likely doubles to Central and singles to the Bay.

That would make a lot of sense.

 

[Envoy]

The no toilet issue is now raised by Wales on Line. I wonder how full the tanks are on the 756’s at the end of the day? Was it not the case that the DMU’s used in the valleys before the sprinters lacked toilets - and corridor connections?

'We're dreading it' Toilet-free trains being introduced in Wales

"The drivers and conductors are gobsmacked and dreading the day these trains are put into service"

www.walesonline.co.uk

"Brand new electric tram-trains have begun testing on the recently electrified Valleys railway lines. However, unlike the current trains running on the Valley lines, there won't be any toilets for passengers."

 

[John R]

Was it not the case that the DMU’s used in the valleys before the sprinters lacked toilets - and corridor connections?

Yes, that is correct on both counts.

 

[chrisjo]

The no toilet issue is now raised by Wales on Line.

'We're dreading it' Toilet-free trains being introduced in Wales

"The drivers and conductors are gobsmacked and dreading the day these trains are put into service"

www.walesonline.co.uk

One of the commenters below the line even claims that there are no toilets on the platforms at Cardiff Central!

 

[DaiBee]

The toilet thing was ALWAYS going to be the headline. It's a reduction in level of service, plain and simple. It might be for good reason (maybe) in terms of the overall improvements, but there's no use denying it's a negative, and there's nothing wrong with people criticising it. Especially now that the core valleys have been given shiny new trains WITH toilets, only for them to be snatched away again. Genius PR move, that.

I'm sure everyone will get used to the new reality eventually, in the meantime there will be much moaning, and not unreasonably for a change.

 

[CapitalStar378]

The toilet non-issue has been done to death and now reincarnated by WalesOnline.

London Underground, London Overground, Elizabeth line, DLR and Tramlink in London have 0 toilets between all of their rolling stock. This isn't a big issue and many of the journey times on TfL services are longer than the Valley lines.

 

[87electric]

Wales is presumably the main incontinent Country in the world.

 

[Towers]

The toilet non-issue has been done to death and now reincarnated by WalesOnline.

London Underground, London Overground, Elizabeth line, DLR and Tramlink in London have 0 toilets between all of their rolling stock. This isn't a big issue and many of the journey times on TfL services are longer than the Valley lines.

None of those comparisons really helps, though.

For a start, none of the other operations that you mention have ever had toilet facilities, whereas the valleys have had them for decades. London metro services aren’t really the same thing as main arterial routes from the valleys into Cardiff, which will see decent levels of end-to-end traffic rather than just lots of short hops. Plenty of folk will be commuting the full length of the route, or close to it, as that’s how they get into Cardiff for work and leisure. How many of TfL’s routes end in central London? This is a rather different beast.

TfW don’t do themselves a great many favours by pointing out that adding a toilet would ‘reduce the capacity’ of the trams, which rather suggests that they expect them to be running around jam packed a lot of the time. That may or may not be the case, but it doesn’t read terribly well. Arguing that the trams were necessary as they ‘can also run on the roads’ seems rather superfluous for people using them up and down the valleys. And then of course, as already pointed out above, the 150s have been replaced with something far superior in the meantime, which will do nothing to please passengers when they are taken away again and replaced with a tram.

 

[Kite159]

It's a bit like how the 16X units were replaced with 387s on Great Western stoppers between Reading & Paddington, only to get replaced with the 345s when TfL took over the stopping services ready for the Elizabeth line.

The key difference between TfL stations and many of the TfW stations which will be served by the trams is some of the TfL stations have toilets.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The toilet non-issue has been done to death and now reincarnated by WalesOnline.

London Underground, London Overground, Elizabeth line, DLR and Tramlink in London have 0 toilets between all of their rolling stock. This isn't a big issue and many of the journey times on TfL services are longer than the Valley lines.

Besides, many places in the valleys are really very rough to be honest, the toilets would only end up trashed and locked out of use like the 150s always were.

 

[John R]

None of those comparisons really helps, though.

For a start, none of the other operations that you mention have ever had toilet facilities,

The Class 165 and 166 which ran the Paddington suburban services until electrification and then subsequent replacement by Elizabeth Line services have toilets.

 

[Envoy]

They don’t even have toilets at Barry Island station - the original Victorian building is all fenced off - indicating that the place must be ‘rough’.

Have they built toilets at the new Cardiff Bay station so that people can empty their tanks before boarding the tram-trains to head north?

 

[800001]

I can see a situation like on the southeastern 707, toilets to be fitted to 398s

 

[CapitalStar378]

They don’t even have toilets at Barry Island station - the original Victorian building is all fenced off - indicating that the place must be ‘rough’.

Have they built toilets at the new Cardiff Bay station so that people can empty their tanks before boarding the tram-trains to head north?

No and they won't be according to the TfW website;

• Only three South Wales Metro stations have toilets currently (Cardiff Queen Street, Cardiff Central and Pontypridd), this will rise to 9 (a 200% increase). We are planning to install universal access toilets at Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare, Treherbert, Caerphilly, Tonypandy and Radyr.

https://tfw.wales/projects/metro/faqs#:~:text=We're%20committed%20to%20ensuring,(a%20200%25%20increase).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Merseyrail trains (old and new) had/have no toilets.
Before electrification was extended, the Rock Ferry-Chester/Ellesmere Port route formerly had DMUs with toilets.
There are toilets at stations in central Liverpool and at some others (eg Hooton) but you have to ask for the key.
Most stations are manned.