TFW Class 175

[anamyd]

Currently on 175109 and I must say it is nice. Much better feel to it than that horrible turquoise of ATW.

Do you mean 2-car 175009...?

 

[anamyd]

I love the new TFW livery PRM its got phone chargers on it well 175003 and 175107 hasn't but i didnot know 109 has PRM

175107 and 175003 were wrapped for the TfW launch and were nothing to do with the refurbishment programme.

The list on page 1 of the "Transport for Wales Livery" thread states that 175001/002/006/009/011 are the refurbished ones

I was reluctant to correct you but PRM is Persons with Reduced Mobility modifications, which 175s have never needed.

 

[anamyd]

175003 had one engine out this morning; a fitter had a look at it but it ended up departing around 15 late on the 0555 from Carmarthen (towards Manchester Piccadilly but there was a unit change onto 175011 at Swansea) and I was riding in the "dead" rear vehicle and it was a wierd feeling It got up to 62mph before Burry Port

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P76546/2019-12-14/detailed

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Do you mean 2-car 175009...?

I do indeed! Mistyped.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

I love that "Horrible turquoise". Feels like literally every TOC has a red and white colour scheme these days. Don't you think it's a bit samey?

I know what you mean but I still prefer it over that turquoise/white combo.

 

[Philip]

175s seem to have been increasingly working to Liverpool recently, is this just while the Milford Haven line is closed and less stock needed for the Manchester-South Wales? Would have thought 150s/158s are adequate enough for the Chester-Liverpool.

 

[coradiafan2000]

175s seem to have been increasingly working to Liverpool recently, is this just while the Milford Haven line is closed and less stock needed for the Manchester-South Wales? Would have thought 150s/158s are adequate enough for the Chester-Liverpool.

They're still running as far as Carmarthen, so they'd still need a fair few of them. I have noticed less of them on the Cardiff to Holyhead route though, with more 158s and even 150s (ugh) working it. That's just from what I have observed though.

 

[PHILIPE]

175s seem to have been increasingly working to Liverpool recently, is this just while the Milford Haven line is closed and less stock needed for the Manchester-South Wales? Would have thought 150s/158s are adequate enough for the Chester-Liverpool.

175s now work to Liverpool, together with 158s, due to TFW concentrating 150s more in the South and replacing them with 153s

 

[Sion John]

They're still running as far as Carmarthen, so they'd still need a fair few of them. I have noticed less of them on the Cardiff to Holyhead route though, with more 158s and even 150s (ugh) working it. That's just from what I have observed though.

It is bad they have to put 150s on long journeys nicer if its upgraded tho but Milford haven should be open on Sunday

 

[Sion John]

It makes sense to use 175s on the Chester - Liverpool service, as the 175 Alston depot is in Chester ! Plus the 175s are better suited to the higher line speed on the WCML from Runcorn - Liverpool than 150's are.
The service will eventually be either a Cardiff or Llandudno to Liverpool service later into the franchise with 197's running on it apparently

Yeah lol i seen on RTT when chester to Liverpool is a 175 its in runcorn early

 

[Sion John]

The path times are so tight on that route any delay & your following another service, if you keep time it's a nice run

Ok at least they get some time in Chester even more in Liverpool i think

 

[sw1ller]

the Times aren’t tight at all, you find yourself waiting round all the time, stopped on the curve both ways, held at Runcorn. There’s an absolute ton of time. A 150 can do it with ease. The line speed is 80 tops towards Liverpool and the same on the way back but after halewood, you can do 95 for a few seconds on a 175, seems pointless to me.

 

[JetStream]

Controversial.. I prefer the seats on a 158 to a 175. Feels more like a comfy armchair! (Although the Mk3 coaches are far and away the comfiest as it stands)

 

[craigybagel]

I spent many years as a guard on 175s, and recently I've become a driver on them. As a guard, they were all always my favourite unit to work - a reliable PIS system (at least compared to 158s), the ability to do PAs from the middle of the train rather then the cab, generally more comfortable and faster too then anything else we had in the fleet. And other then (at the time) the lack of power sockets the traveling public seemed to loved them too!

As a driver, I find they're still nice trains to work. I love the infinite control over the brake that makes it much easier to get a smooth stop in the right location, and having a TMS system to warn you of any faults on the train is reassuring. However:

haha. I just hate the aircon in the cab. It’s almost impossible to get the right temperature and when you do you can’t maintain it.

The cab heater is worthless, it either boils you or freezes you. I've never been in a colder cab and I signed all the best trains such as 142/143' and 155's.......

This I'd listened to drivers moan about the cab heaters for years and didn't understand it as it usually works ok in the back cab. But up front, with cold air battering the front of the train at up to 100mph, it really does get freezing cold in winter. I've not driven one on a hot summers day yet though, I await that with interest. By contrast, the heaters on Sprinters are lovely and warm.

I have a specific place towards Telford I like to use to measure performance of various trains. It’s normally to see if I have a decent 158 or a proper sluggish one but we do take 175’s, 150’s and 153’s up there too. The best speed I’ve ever achieved at the point I use is 69mph in a 158. The last 175 I used was 67mph. I will say, I’ve had 158’s doing 56mph at this point too (834 is particularly poor).

I would say that in general, the 175’s are slightly faster, I tend to get more of them to 90 before I need to brake for flint than I do a 158, but there really isn’t that much difference.

I've not had too much experience yet but it seems like 175s are much better at climbing hills. Have you noticed on Chester - Shrewsbury in particular they seem to do a lot better?

the best accelerating train we have is the DVT/Stock. I was shocked at how quickly it gets to line speed.

It takes forever to get going from a stand - but once you're going fast enough to go into notch 8 it flies!

The 175s are 100mph capable right? Are there any places they can actually reach that speed? I would have guessed at maybe between Crewe and Manchester. From my experience that's where they seem the fastest.

I'm not surprised at the the DVT Stock being the fastest. A powerful 67 hauling quite a modest set of coaches.

The do get to 100 between Crewe and Manchester yes. At my depot they get to 100 between Crewe and wolves via Stafford and if you get a clear run, you can get to 100 very briefly towards Birmingham new street. I think Crewe sign via stoke too, so there may be 100mph running there, I know there is near norton bridge. Can’t think of anywhere else sorry.

175s can go any one of 4 different ways between Crewe and Manchester and all 4 will see some degree of 100mph. AFAIK the only other time they do 100 other then those mentioned already is between Bridgend and Port Talbot Parkway.

I've never found the vestibules to be smelly. Then again people say the same about Voyagers and I don't have problems with smells in them either.

Normally they aren't. But if the CET tank is full then unfortunately it can get very whiffy in there....

 

[anamyd]

175003 is back on two engines; seen at Cardiff Central on the 21/12/19

 

[craigybagel]

175003 is back on two engines; seen at Cardiff Central on the 21/12/19

Indeed, I drove it yesterday. You won't see it out and about without all engines for more then a day, it wouldn't leave the depot with a fault like that. A 2 car can't keep time on 1 engine (a 3 car can just about keep to time on 2 engines).

 

[Sion John]

Indeed, I drove it yesterday. You won't see it out and about without all engines for more then a day, it wouldn't leave the depot with a fault like that. A 2 car can't keep time on 1 engine (a 3 car can just about keep to time on 2 engines).

Exactly i been in 175116 with 2 engines and i was in the dead carriage. This was a while ago tho

 

[sw1ller]

@craigybagel, they’re definitely better at higher speeds but theres not much in it. Leaving decoy crossing and climbing the bank, both a 175 and 158 get to about 90 before they start losing speed. The better 175s are better than the best 158s though, if that makes sense. I’d still rather a 158. Once you get to grips with the braking, you won’t need to play around with it anyway, so the fact it has full brake range won’t be as impressive.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I'm interested how the 175s will compare with the 170s when they enter service.

 

[craigybagel]

@craigybagel, they’re definitely better at higher speeds but theres not much in it. Leaving decoy crossing and climbing the bank, both a 175 and 158 get to about 90 before they start losing speed. The better 175s are better than the best 158s though, if that makes sense. I’d still rather a 158. Once you get to grips with the braking, you won’t need to play around with it anyway, so the fact it has full brake range won’t be as impressive.

Interesting, and good to know! I've not really enjoyed my 158 drives too much - but they've mostly been to Birmingham and it's hard to enjoy driving around there anyway I'm looking forward to experiencing the cab air con on them this summer - it doesn't work in the back cab on 158s!

I'm interested how the 175s will compare with the 170s when they enter service.

From a driver's perspective I've heard the Cardiff folks say the 170s aren't as comfortable to drive - the power/brake handle is more stiff and in a more awkward position I believe. I understand the passenger feedback so far has been very good though.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Interesting, and good to know! I've not really enjoyed my 158 drives too much - but they've mostly been to Birmingham and it's hard to enjoy driving around there anyway I'm looking forward to experiencing the cab air con on them this summer - it doesn't work in the back cab on 158s!



From a driver's perspective I've heard the Cardiff folks say the 170s aren't as comfortable to drive - the power/brake handle is more stiff and in a more awkward position I believe. I understand the passenger feedback so far has been very good though.

As a passenger I'd prefer a 175, although I still like the 170s, looking forward to seeing them on the Cheltenham to Maesteg services. Big upgrade over the 150s I normally see working the route- you can even get a pacer if you're unlucky!

 

[Anonymous10]

Controversial.. I prefer the seats on a 158 to a 175. Feels more like a comfy armchair! (Although the Mk3 coaches are far and away the comfiest as it stands)

I agree the 158 seats are nicer

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree the 158 seats are nicer

I find both types of seat a bit *too* reclined, I prefer something a little more upright like the Desiro seat (but not too upright). The Class 175 seat is in my book better because it has "niches" at the outside edges where my knees actually go, rather than one in the middle where they don't. (Those with skinny legs who physically can sit with them fully together may see this the other way of course - the Class 158 as-built seat is very much a forerunner of the FISA LEAN!)

 

[Anonymous10]

I find both types of seat a bit *too* reclined, I prefer something a little more upright like the Desiro seat (but not too upright). The Class 175 seat is in my book better because it has "niches" at the outside edges where my knees actually go, rather than one in the middle where they don't. (Those with skinny legs who physically can sit with them fully together may see this the other way of course - the Class 158 as-built seat is very much a forerunner of the FISA LEAN!)

I'm not sure if its the as built but I find them much nicer Ur head has a all round rest and the seats are comfortable with good padding

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure if its the as built but I find them much nicer Ur head has a all round rest and the seats are comfortable with good padding

If it's TfW we are talking about per the thread, their Class 158s have the Grammer IC3000, which to me is very much the king of UK railway seating (and the only UK-used seat which is good enough to be used on InterCity type services elsewhere in Europe, such as the OeBB RailJet and PKP FLIRT). TfW use the "small headrest" version, too, which I find just as comfortable as the "large headrest" version used by EMT and on the GW HSTs but far less claustrophobic.

I certainly do think the Grammer IC3000 is better than the Class 175 seat, indeed, I have yet to sit in any Standard class UK railway seat (current or past) which is more comfortable to me.

 

[Anonymous10]

If it's TfW we are talking about per the thread, their Class 158s have the Grammer IC3000, which to me is very much the king of UK railway seating (and the only UK-used seat which is good enough to be used on InterCity type services elsewhere in Europe, such as the OeBB RailJet and PKP FLIRT). TfW use the "small headrest" version, too, which I find just as comfortable as the "large headrest" version used by EMT and on the GW HSTs but far less claustrophobic.

I certainly do think the Grammer IC3000 is better than the Class 175 seat, indeed, I have yet to sit in any Standard class UK railway seat (current or past) which is more comfortable to me.

As a poor Welsh teen in West Wales I haven't caught anything really other than tfw but I personally think that that seat should be in all intercity and all long haul regional trains but the cost would never see it happen

 

[Bletchleyite]

As a poor Welsh teen in West Wales I haven't caught anything really other than tfw but I personally think that that seat should be in all intercity and all long haul regional trains but the cost would never see it happen

Indeed, it's an expensive seat (and I believe sadly not certified for 125mph in new stock, though I wish someone would sort that out so we could have it instead of the Fainsa rubbish). I was surprised ATW installed it, to be honest - most of what they did was on the cheap with the exception of the Class 158 and Mk3 refurbs which are really very good, only in my mind beaten by the Inverness 158s which are basically the same but with a nicer colour scheme.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I agree the 158 seats are nicer

Surely the 158 and MkIII seats are the same? or am I missing something?

Having travelled on both many many times. I haven't noticed a difference anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely the 158 and MkIII seats are the same? or am I missing something?

Having travelled on both many many times. I haven't noticed a difference anyway.

We're talking 158 vs 175 (the latter of course being the subject of the thread). The Mk3 interior is near identical to the 158 interior.

 

[Anonymous10]

Indeed, it's an expensive seat (and I believe sadly not certified for 125mph in new stock, though I wish someone would sort that out so we could have it instead of the Fainsa rubbish). I was surprised ATW installed it, to be honest - most of what they did was on the cheap with the exception of the Class 158 and Mk3 refurbs which are really very good, only in my mind beaten by the Inverness 158s which are basically the same but with a nicer colour scheme.

They are worth the cost in my opinion the comfort is incredible