TFW Class 175

[anamyd]

Its 175107 but just in TfW liverly only and no phone chargers just like you said rebishished on the outside

post 20...

 

[coradiafan2000]

I could have sworn that repainted 175 I saw on Tuesday had the refurbished interior...

Maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me...

 

[sw1ller]

There’s no 3 car 175’s with the interior refurbed yet, but it can’t be far off. I think Alstom have done a very good job given the amount of work they have to do on them. It’s not just a refresh, they’re fixing all the corrosion issues and some of them are very bad apparently. It’s taking 8 weeks for some of them to come back out. There’s no improvement in the cab though which is disappointing. And the HVAC (heating/cooling) is still a right pain and just does it’s own thing. Much rather a 158 over a175 any day.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Much rather a 158 over a175 any day.

That's treason. Explain yourself.

 

[sw1ller]

That's treason. Explain yourself.

haha. I just hate the aircon in the cab. It’s almost impossible to get the right temperature and when you do you can’t maintain it. The PIS needs updating too, if you put in the wrong code for Manchester from Llandudno, it doesn’t shut up and you have the guard come in to tell you to turn it off. There are other examples too. In the dark, some of the in cab lights are far too bright and you need to carry insulation tape with you so you can partially cover them up. The TMS is at a stupid angle and goes too dark in daylight hours and too bright at night. I’m not saying the 158’s are perfect by the way, they have many issues too, but given the choice, I’d rather one over a 175.

 

[coradiafan2000]

haha. I just hate the aircon in the cab. It’s almost impossible to get the right temperature and when you do you can’t maintain it. The PIS needs updating too, if you put in the wrong code for Manchester from Llandudno, it doesn’t shut up and you have the guard come in to tell you to turn it off. There are other examples too. In the dark, some of the in cab lights are far too bright and you need to carry insulation tape with you so you can partially cover them up. The TMS is at a stupid angle and goes too dark in daylight hours and too bright at night. I’m not saying the 158’s are perfect by the way, they have many issues too, but given the choice, I’d rather one over a 175.

I'm assuming you're a driver? I'd have at least thought 175s feel better to drive, with their superior acceleration and speed (at least I think they perform better, feel free to compare their performance- I'm genuinely interested to hear from a driver's perspective how the two feel). From a passenger's perspective, I'd much rather a 175. I really like the 158s, but the 175s are probably my favourite DMU. I couldn't explain why, they just are. Love cruising through the Welsh Marches on them.

 

[sw1ller]

I have a specific place towards Telford I like to use to measure performance of various trains. It’s normally to see if I have a decent 158 or a proper sluggish one but we do take 175’s, 150’s and 153’s up there too. The best speed I’ve ever achieved at the point I use is 69mph in a 158. The last 175 I used was 67mph. I will say, I’ve had 158’s doing 56mph at this point too (834 is particularly poor).

I would say that in general, the 175’s are slightly faster, I tend to get more of them to 90 before I need to brake for flint than I do a 158, but there really isn’t that much difference.

the best accelerating train we have is the DVT/Stock. I was shocked at how quickly it gets to line speed.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I have a specific place towards Telford I like to use to measure performance of various trains. It’s normally to see if I have a decent 158 or a proper sluggish one but we do take 175’s, 150’s and 153’s up there too. The best speed I’ve ever achieved at the point I use is 69mph in a 158. The last 175 I used was 67mph. I will say, I’ve had 158’s doing 56mph at this point too (834 is particularly poor).

I would say that in general, the 175’s are slightly faster, I tend to get more of them to 90 before I need to brake for flint than I do a 158, but there really isn’t that much difference.

the best accelerating train we have is the DVT/Stock. I was shocked at how quickly it gets to line speed.

The 175s are 100mph capable right? Are there any places they can actually reach that speed? I would have guessed at maybe between Crewe and Manchester. From my experience that's where they seem the fastest.

I'm not surprised at the the DVT Stock being the fastest. A powerful 67 hauling quite a modest set of coaches.

 

[sw1ller]

The 175s are 100mph capable right? Are there any places they can actually reach that speed? I would have guessed at maybe between Crewe and Manchester. From my experience that's where they seem the fastest.

I'm not surprised at the the DVT Stock being the fastest. A powerful 67 hauling quite a modest set of coaches.

The do get to 100 between Crewe and Manchester yes. At my depot they get to 100 between Crewe and wolves via Stafford and if you get a clear run, you can get to 100 very briefly towards Birmingham new street. I think Crewe sign via stoke too, so there may be 100mph running there, I know there is near norton bridge. Can’t think of anywhere else sorry.

 

[anamyd]

Maybe it's Alstom tradition...? I find it odd how no-one else has mentioned it. They look really good on the outside and through the windows from outside but that's about it. I'll dig out my paper note, hang on...

175001, 6/12/19 (things are in a random order):

The inverter for the new power sockets...? in Coach A has some messy tape on it
Live/manual PA announcements accompanied by interference (a whine)
Some Alstom passenger door sill badges missing
Hand dryer in accessible toilet not working
Accessible toilet door takes several presses of the close button to close
Some wear to some surfaces remains - marks / gouges on edges of tables and overhead luggage racks, marks on round pieces on armrests, marks on PIS screen casing and ceiling panels, dirt / dust on inside of ceiling light diffusers, and even a hole in a vestibule to saloon door frame panel...

Maybe TfW didn't want an "Arriva 158 in 2011-2012" quality refurb on the 175s because they only have a few years left with them...?

There’s no 3 car 175’s with the interior refurbed yet, but it can’t be far off. I think Alstom have done a very good job given the amount of work they have to do on them. It’s not just a refresh, they’re fixing all the corrosion issues and some of them are very bad apparently. It’s taking 8 weeks for some of them to come back out. There’s no improvement in the cab though which is disappointing. And the HVAC (heating/cooling) is still a right pain and just does it’s own thing. Much rather a 158 over a175 any day.

In addition to the letdowns of 175001's refurb I already mentioned, I left my coat on because the saloon air conditioning was on cold even though it was already cold (outside). Although adding to your point about the corrosion repair I'll add another positive (other than the livery / moquette / carpet / table surface renewal / power socket installation etc) - the vestibules were no longer "smelly". I wonder if this was simply something like a filter change on the ventilation and air conditioning system...?

 

[coradiafan2000]

In addition to the letdowns of 175001's refurb I already mentioned, I left my coat on because the saloon air conditioning was on cold even though it was already cold (outside). Although adding to your point about the corrosion repair I'll add another positive (other than the livery / moquette / carpet / table surface renewal / power socket installation etc) - the vestibules were no longer "smelly". I wonder if this was simply something like a filter change on the ventilation and air conditioning system...?

I've never found the vestibules to be smelly. Then again people say the same about Voyagers and I don't have problems with smells in them either.

 

[anamyd]

I've never found the vestibules to be smelly. Then again people say the same about Voyagers and I don't have problems with smells in them either.

I had not long come off unrefurbished 175106 which had the smelly vestibules. So, it did stand out that something had actually been done about it on 175001, even with all the weak points of its refurb. I suppose it's always going to be a case of some people are more sensitive to smells than others. I should add that the vestibules I'm referring to are the ones near the toilets and not the cab end ones.

 

[sw1ller]

I've never found the vestibules to be smelly. Then again people say the same about Voyagers and I don't have problems with smells in them either.

I’ve Seen some pretty bad states while shunting them about at night, but it’s usually the disabled toilet that stands out most.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I presume the current 175 refurbs retain the existing seats, which are just re-covered?
The 158 ATW refurb replaced the BR seats, which made a big difference, as you can tell if you ride an un-refurbished Northern 158.
You can say the same of the ATW 150 refurb compared to anyone else's.
I wonder what they'll do with the similar seating currently in the Mk3 sets?
Too good to throw away.

 

[Eccles1983]

I prefer the 175 driving wise. It's brakes are superb, the driving position and views and cab layout are all very good. The points above about lights and TMS are correct.

The cab heater is worthless, it either boils you or freezes you. I've never been in a colder cab and I signed all the best trains such as 142/143' and 155's.......

The 158's cab heaters are brilliant. The brakes aren't. It's the only thing that lets it down aside from the standard sprinter seat and view.

Also the 158 with the weird clunkly first gear is a bit awkward to get used to. I don't know the number but it doesn't half give a good jolt.

 

[anamyd]

I presume the current 175 refurbs retain the existing seats, which are just re-covered?
The 158 ATW refurb replaced the BR seats, which made a big difference, as you can tell if you ride an un-refurbished Northern 158.
You can say the same of the ATW 150 refurb compared to anyone else's.
I wonder what they'll do with the similar seating currently in the Mk3 sets?
Too good to throw away.

Yes, the original 175 seats have been kept in the refurbs, just re-covered. When I was on 175001 unfortunately I didn't check for refoaming and I don't want to make a judgement of seat comfort as refurbished based on one seat.

The 158s are actually on their third seats with their current Grammers; the previous seats weren't the original BR ones but rather the Chapman ones which had been installed by Wales and West (which can still be found on Northern 158815-817 and 842 etc). The ex-Central Trains 158s had the original BR seats but had been withdrawn by ATW a few years before the big refurb, along with the ex-Wales & West ones that had gone to Northern.

The change of layout to 2+2 with Chapman seats and tables in the ATW 150s originated from Wales & West, which is why GWR's 150/2s also have that same base interior. I heard that the "current" DfT doesn't want any more of that because it would "reduce seating capacity" which is why there are still other 150s going around with 3+2 seating and no tables.

I don't believe that the Mk3s will be refurbished as it's planned that they won't be remaining in the fleet for long.

 

[387star]

That's a good point. I was wondering about the budget

why did it take so long for WAG to finance the 158 refurbishment then? just like the voyagers ATW 158s were in an appalling state for over a decade

 

[416GSi]

As a reasonably regular user on the Marches Line and the Hope line, I do find the 175 more comfortable than the TFW 158 or the TPE 185 or for that matter the EMR 158. They are a big step up in comfort terms from the CrossCountry Voyagers but don't hold a candle aganst the Mk3 Mallard referbishments that GNER and CrossCountry did with their HSTs.

I not convinced that the lasted updates can be considered a full referbishments. Sure they look better than they did, but it does seen to be a simple new carpet, new seat covering and deep clean, as well as a repaint. (Accepting that they did work which is not too obvious to me). One thing I don't like about the referbished trains is that the have removed the coat hook...minor I know but annoying for me.

 

[anamyd]

One thing I don't like about the referbished trains is that the have removed the coat hook...minor I know but annoying for me.

They had a coat hook?!

 

[coradiafan2000]

They had a coat hook?!

Yeah, although I've never seen anyone use them. I've seen people use the ones in 800s though.

 

[raetiamann]

I've only done one journey on a 175, but I was very impressed. Does make you question why more of the good ones weren't ordered rather than some units running around now. I'd say they compare very well with 170s and its.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I've only done one journey on a 175, but I was very impressed. Does make you question why more of the good ones weren't ordered rather than some units running around now. I'd say they compare very well with 170s and its.

I wish TfW had a larger fleet of them. You don't know misery until you've been all the way from Manchester to Cardiff on a 150, which occasionally happens when a 175 is unavailable.

I really hate how TfW manage their fleet sometimes. They put 150s on Cardiff to Holyhead trains, yet put 158s and even 175s on stopping services to Ebbw Vale and Maesteg.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wish TfW had a larger fleet of them. You don't know misery until you've been all the way from Manchester to Cardiff on a 150, which occasionally happens when a 175 is unavailable.

I really hate how TfW manage their fleet sometimes. They put 150s on Cardiff to Holyhead trains, yet put 158s and even 175s on stopping services to Ebbw Vale and Maesteg.

Just another TOC with a random unit generator - there are many!

 

[darylyates17]

I’m also a big fan of the 175s I wish more were ordered but the unreliability hampered that. One thing that I’m curious about the 175s and 180s as well is the wining sound they make when the engines are idling is it the cooler groups and AC Fans.

 

[PHILIPE]

I wish TfW had a larger fleet of them. You don't know misery until you've been all the way from Manchester to Cardiff on a 150, which occasionally happens when a 175 is unavailable.

I really hate how TfW manage their fleet sometimes. They put 150s on Cardiff to Holyhead trains, yet put 158s and even 175s on stopping services to Ebbw Vale and Maesteg.

TFW at the moment have to put whatever is available at the time to keep the job going

 

[Mk81]

On the subject of comfort & refurbishment or replacement of seats. 1 of the many complaints you hear about on new trains is the thinness of the seat foam. That I understand is down to stricter regulations over fire safety. Does this also apply to old trains undergoing refurbishment? From my experience the thicker the foam the more comfort you get!

 

[anamyd]

On the subject of comfort & refurbishment or replacement of seats. 1 of the many complaints you hear about on new trains is the thinness of the seat foam. That I understand is down to stricter regulations over fire safety. Does this also apply to old trains undergoing refurbishment? From my experience the thicker the foam the more comfort you get!

No, I don't believe that it applies to refurbishment of trains It's just that the operators who have been replacing the entire seats (rather than re-using the existing seats like on the 175s) have gone for the "ironing boards" (ScotRail 156s and Northern 158s). The seat I sat in on refurbished 175001 was no less comfortable than the one I sat in on unrefurbished 175106 a few hours prior. Although, as I mentioned before, I didn't compare different seats for levels of foam deterioration. And yes, that's amazing logic

 

[sw1ller]

Also the 158 with the weird clunkly first gear is a bit awkward to get used to. I don't know the number but it doesn't half give a good jolt.

that’ll be 834, the one that’s woefully slow. If you just throw that one into notch 7 from a stand it’s a bit smoother, it doesn’t rev up like the rest and it pull away really smoothly...... until 26mph when it kicks you into 2nd gear!!

 

[Sion John]

That's treason. Explain yourself.

I prefer 158s because there much more reliable 175s does break down more when ATW had them they didn't look after them but 175s are nice trains there cool inside i do love the upgraded ones nice that they got chargers now also there fast 100mph on the WCML is good i like the 3 cars because there 3s but i live in west wales so i always see 150s and 175s so when i see a 158 it feels like a nice change if you know what I mean

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I’m also a big fan of the 175s I wish more were ordered but the unreliability hampered that. One thing that I’m curious about the 175s and 180s as well is the wining sound they make when the engines are idling is it the cooler groups and AC Fans.

I've noticed that as well, the engines on the 175's seem a tad quieter than the QSK19 engines.