TfW 197 annoucements

[northwichcat]

So I've done two journeys on the new 197s.

The first was Crewe to Chester. On that one it did strange that the annoucements, on a service that doesn't enter Wales, were Welsh first but other than that I didn't observe anything strange.

Yesterday I caught one on the Chester to Liverpool service. So no surprise it also had Welsh first annoucements. However, I did observe:

- At both Helsby and Frodsham the Welsh language annoucement about which station it was and the destination was made while the doors were open. There was a long pause before the English annoucement, which wasn't made until the doors were closed and the train departed! This was then followed by the subsequent annoucements in both languages welcoming passengers on board.

- I went to the toilet and while the signs were both languages, the audible information such as "Toilet door locked" was in English only.

Now I would have thought TfW Rail would have wanted to cater for people who are visual impaired and also Welsh speakers. And I would think it's more understandable to have the "Toilet door locked" annoucement in Welsh and English, than to translate Liverpool South Parkway into Welsh and to annouce that before an English annoucement.

Obviously if the Liverpool service gets extended to Wrexham or Cardiff, then there may be a valid reason for Welsh first for at least part of the journey.

 

[oglord]

Obviously if the Liverpool service gets extended to Wrexham or Cardiff, then there may be a valid reason for Welsh first for at least part of the journey.

IMHO, there is never a valid reason for Welsh first, other than an ideological one.

 

[185143]

Don't get me started. How did we cope on 175s, and how do we cope on 150/153/158 stock.

I appreciate that Welsh and English have equal standing in Wales, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all.

But why Welsh announcements have to be used on a train that doesn't go to Wales is beyond me. And, regardless of wether it's Welsh or English first, neither announcement should be playing for so long that it's common for the doors to be closing by the time it switches to the other language!

 

[CardiffKid]

why Welsh announcements have to be used on a train that doesn't go to Wales is beyond me.

Because it’s one system for the whole fleet.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

But why Welsh announcements have to be used on a train that doesn't go to Wales is beyond me. And, regardless of wether it's Welsh or English first, neither announcement should be playing for so long that it's common for the doors to be closing by the time it switches to the other language!

It’s infuriating.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2024 ==
4

It’s tiresome that 80% of the train (or 99% in England only routes) have to wait until the doors are closed, and the train is moving before they can hear an announcement they understand.

 

[northwichcat]

Because it’s one system for the whole fleet

And I would guess that's why the toilet annoucements are English only - they've not specified a different system to what Northern have. However, if the Welsh politicans are serious about multilingual annoucements they wouldn't have gone to the pound shop to get the system. So many European countries have multilingual annoucements that work well. In Switzerland they can manage three languages well, while TfW Rail can't do two properly.

It’s more tiresome that 80% of the train (or 99% in England only routes) have to wait until the doors are closed and the train is moving before they can hear an announcement they understand.

I wouldn't be surprised if a disability campaigner challenges this in court. It's not acceptable for blind passengers to not hear an English language annoucement until it's too late. I imagine the Welsh politicans would take a different view if Holyhead to Chester services were operated by Irish Ferries and the announcements were all Gaelic first, and you had to wait until the train had departed to hear the English or Welsh version.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wouldn't be surprised if a disability campaigner challenges this in court. It's not acceptable for blind passengers to not hear an English language annoucement until it's too late. I imagine the Welsh politicans would take a different view if Holyhead to Chester services were operated by Irish Ferries and the announcements were all Gaelic first, and you had to wait until the train had departed to hear the English or Welsh version.

Completely agreed, and it just makes it all the worse that everyone that speaks Welsh also understands English anyway, so playing the announcement first does not even benefit Welsh speakers, it benefits no one.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Don't get me started. How did we cope on 175s, and how do we cope on 150/153/158 stock.

I appreciate that Welsh and English have equal standing in Wales, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all.

But why Welsh announcements have to be used on a train that doesn't go to Wales is beyond me. And, regardless of wether it's Welsh or English first, neither announcement should be playing for so long that it's common for the doors to be closing by the time it switches to the other language!

Because it's the law.

It doesn't matter whether the train is operating outside of Wales or not.

It is a Welsh public sector organisation running/managing the train, and therefore Welsh must be treated equally to English.

There is no law that specifically says Welsh must come before English, but it is generally Welsh Government policy that this is the case in anything customer/ public facing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is no law that specifically says Welsh must come before English, but it is generally Welsh Government policy that this is the case in anything customer/ public facing.

I'd love to see what the Swiss do - English first in England, Welsh first in Wales, and a different jingle for each. It's just full of charm in my view.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'd love to see what the Swiss do - English first in England, Welsh first in Wales, and a different jingle for each. It's just full of charm in my view.

Wales and Switzerland are entirely different kettles of fish.

 

[northwichcat]

It is a Welsh public sector organisation running/managing the train, and therefore Welsh must be treated equally to English.

There is no law that specifically says Welsh must come before English, but it is generally Welsh Government policy that this is the case in anything customer/ public facing.

I should have perhaps mentioned the guard made a manual annoucement on the Chester to Liverpool train saying Merseyrail specific tickets are not valid on this service. He didn't attempt to make that annoucement in Welsh and given he had a Merseyside accent I don't know if he would have been able to speak Welsh.

Aren't the "& Borders" part of the operations under an agreement set in Westminster, rather than one set in Cardiff?