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TfW 153s to Brum

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Mordac

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I've noticed occasionally we've been getting some 153s (usually a pair of a full-PRM unit with a /9) coming to Brum, usually coupled with a 158. Is this diagrammed, or is it just a case of a last minute sub?

If it is diagrammed, can someone post the diagrams, please?
 
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Sheridan

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I’d be very surprised if it’s diagrammed, usually 153s are short-notice stand-ins for missing 158s or extras on routes where a 2-car on its own would struggle. I believe a few of TfW’s 158s were nearing exam requirement all at the same time so this may be the reason they had to substitute 153s in.
 

Mordac

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I’d be very surprised if it’s diagrammed, usually 153s are short-notice stand-ins for missing 158s or extras on routes where a 2-car on its own would struggle. I believe a few of TfW’s 158s were nearing exam requirement all at the same time so this may be the reason they had to substitute 153s in.
That's what I suspected too. None seem to be operating today but if I notice another one I'll post the service here

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Sorry for the double post, but here's two odd ones today:

1I26 1826 Holyhead to Birmingham International https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y90659/2022-06-05/detailed#allox_id=0
1D33 2240 Birmingham International to Chester https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y90287/2022-06-05/detailed#allox_id=0

pair operated by 153353 and 153910.

Even odder

1I24 2033 Shrewsbury to Birmingham International https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y90656/2022-06-05/detailed
1J35 2211 Birmingham International to Shrewsbury https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y90735/2022-06-05/detailed

pair operated by 175007! I didn't even know 175s were cleared to come to Birmingham.
 
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Watershed

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pair operated by 175007! I didn't even know 175s were cleared to come to Birmingham.
Yes; there was a diagrammed move early in the morning (can't recall the exact time/headcode) until fairly recently.
 

sonic2009

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Yes; there was a diagrammed move early in the morning (can't recall the exact time/headcode) until fairly recently.

Possibly the services than ran via Crewe and Stafford from Chester to Birmingham, certainly do remember a 175 on that route.
 

craigybagel

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That's what I suspected too. None seem to be operating today but if I notice another one I'll post the service here

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Sorry for the double post, but here's two odd ones today:

1I26 1826 Holyhead to Birmingham International https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y90659/2022-06-05/detailed#allox_id=0
1D33 2240 Birmingham International to Chester https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y90287/2022-06-05/detailed#allox_id=0

pair operated by 153353 and 153910.

Even odder

1I24 2033 Shrewsbury to Birmingham International https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y90656/2022-06-05/detailed
1J35 2211 Birmingham International to Shrewsbury https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y90735/2022-06-05/detailed

pair operated by 175007! I didn't even know 175s were cleared to come to Birmingham.
According to Genius 1I26 is actually booked for a 175. Not sure about 1I24 - it was started at Shrewsbury vice Chester owing to lack of traincrew and it doesn't show the allocation.
Yes; there was a diagrammed move early in the morning (can't recall the exact time/headcode) until fairly recently.
It was the first Shrewsbury to Birmingham International in the morning, about 0520 IIRC. It's return trip was through to Llandudno. That service is booked for 2 158s now as it splits at New Street and forms two separate services back towards Shrewsbury.
Possibly the services than ran via Crewe and Stafford from Chester to Birmingham, certainly do remember a 175 on that route.
The Sunday service was booked for a 175. On weekdays it had to be a 158 as the diagram involved the Cambrian.

There was also a second 175 diagram on a Sunday evening - you actually ended up with two 175s at International at the same time.
 
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Andy Pacer

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They sometimes run the Shrewsbury to Brum end, and then depart appearing to go to Aberystwyth but then set swap at Shrewsbury with the set coming in from from coast, and then the dog box formation return to Brum.
 

Rich McLean

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As other have said, if there is a shortage of 158s, they will split the Cambrian Trains at Shrewsbury, and run a 150 or 153 attached to a 158 on the Shrewsbury to Birmingham Section. Happens more often than you think.
 

Andy Pacer

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Yes; there was a diagrammed move early in the morning (can't recall the exact time/headcode) until fairly recently.

Possibly the services than ran via Crewe and Stafford from Chester to Birmingham, certainly do remember a 175 on that route.
It was the first Shrewsbury to Birmingham International in the morning, about 0520 IIRC. It's return trip was through to Llandudno. That service is booked for 2 158s now as it splits at New Street and forms two separate services back towards Shrewsbury..
I recall an early one from Birmingham (7am ish) always being a 175 a few years ago, I think it went all the way through to Holyhead back then.
 

craigybagel

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I recall an early one from Birmingham (7am ish) always being a 175 a few years ago, I think it went all the way through to Holyhead back then.
That was the service I was referring to. The 175 stabled overnight in Shrewsbury, formed the first International service of the day and then went back through Birmingham to Llandudno.
 

NSEFAN

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A pair of 153s worked in place of the 67 and mark 4s on Cardiff-Holyhead last week, so they seem to be quite a generic stand-in set when planned stock is not available.
 

craigybagel

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A pair of 153s worked in place of the 67 and mark 4s on Cardiff-Holyhead last week, so they seem to be quite a generic stand-in set when planned stock is not available.
A role formerly filled by 150s - until the demise of the Pacers meant that most of those units up on the Valleys, since no other units in the fleet are permitted to run North of Radyr.

153s may not be the most comfortable or speedy units, but there is sufficient traction knowledge and route clearance that they can be used almost everywhere (the only places they can't go are the aforementioned Valleys and on the Cambrian) and it's better than a cancellation.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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A role formerly filled by 150s - until the demise of the Pacers meant that most of those units up on the Valleys, since no other units in the fleet are permitted to run North of Radyr.
The 153s do bring an advantage over the 150s in that they have longer carriages with doors at each end. I find they have more of a long distance feel.
 

Watershed

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The 153s do bring an advantage over the 150s in that they have longer carriages with doors at each end. I find they have more of a long distance feel.
The legroom, especially at tables, is absolutely abymsal though. Given that the 153s currently have no planned replacement on the HoWL, they really should redo the layout with one or two fewer rows, to give adequate legroom.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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The legroom, especially at tables, is absolutely abymsal though. Given that the 153s currently have no planned replacement on the HoWL, they really should redo the layout with one or two fewer rows, to give adequate legroom.
The PRM toilet already takes up an enormous amount of space.
 

Mordac

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A role formerly filled by 150s - until the demise of the Pacers meant that most of those units up on the Valleys, since no other units in the fleet are permitted to run North of Radyr.

153s may not be the most comfortable or speedy units, but there is sufficient traction knowledge and route clearance that they can be used almost everywhere (the only places they can't go are the aforementioned Valleys and on the Cambrian) and it's better than a cancellation.
Yes I definitely remember pre-pandemic 150s making into New Street, and I think there might have even been a Sunday service where they were diagrammed, but I'm less sure about that.
 

Andy Pacer

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Yes I definitely remember pre-pandemic 150s making into New Street, and I think there might have even been a Sunday service where they were diagrammed, but I'm less sure about that.
Was it pre Pandemic that they only ran in as far as Wolverhampton on a Sunday? Seem to recall some 150+153 combinations diagrammed there.
 

diffident

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Yes I definitely remember pre-pandemic 150s making into New Street, and I think there might have even been a Sunday service where they were diagrammed, but I'm less sure about that.

150's pop up regularly at New Street, I'm often on one en-route to Wrexham!
 

craigybagel

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The 153s do bring an advantage over the 150s in that they have longer carriages with doors at each end. I find they have more of a long distance feel.
It can be a hindrance as well though. With the reduced top speed Sprinters already struggle to match 175 timings. 150s usually fare better than 153s however as the dwell times are a lot shorter - which is another reason why the 197s should be a big game changer when they arrive.
Was it pre Pandemic that they only ran in as far as Wolverhampton on a Sunday? Seem to recall some 150+153 combinations diagrammed there.
There was a 2 hourly all stops Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury service on a Sunday, booked for a TfW 153. This ended when WMR introduced a Sunday service on the route.
 

Jez

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The 153s do bring an advantage over the 150s in that they have longer carriages with doors at each end. I find they have more of a long distance feel.
I agree, The 153s do have a more long distance feel and I prefer them over a 150 when travelling long distance.

ATW did a decent refurbishment of the 153s around a decade ago and then TFW improved them again recently.

With TFW keeping 8 153s for the HOW line its possible we could see them occasionally being used on Manchester-South Wales/Shrewsbury to Birmingham etc for some years yet.
 

craigybagel

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With TFW keeping 8 153s for the HOW line its possible we could see them occasionally being used on Manchester-South Wales/Shrewsbury to Birmingham etc for some years yet.
Not all that likely to be honest - it depends on how far outside the HOWL depots (Drivers from Carmarthen and Shrewsbury, guards from those two depots plus Crewe) traction knowledge for 153s will be retained. Crewe drivers may well keep them on their cards for the Crewe - Shrewsbury local services and potentially to get them on and off Arriva Train Care for servicing, but the likelihood of a Cardiff retaining competency is slim, and even more so for Chester.

Also, whilst the exact details haven't been listed yet, it is expected that there will be a lot more interworking and coupling of units with the 197s - and 153s aren't compatible (except in dire emergencies for rescue only).
 

diffident

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Not all that likely to be honest - it depends on how far outside the HOWL depots (Drivers from Carmarthen and Shrewsbury, guards from those two depots plus Crewe) traction knowledge for 153s will be retained. Crewe drivers may well keep them on their cards for the Crewe - Shrewsbury local services and potentially to get them on and off Arriva Train Care for servicing, but the likelihood of a Cardiff retaining competency is slim, and even more so for Chester.

Also, whilst the exact details haven't been listed yet, it is expected that there will be a lot more interworking and coupling of units with the 197s - and 153s aren't compatible (except in dire emergencies for rescue only).

Are the 175's compatible with the 153's?
 

Parallel

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I was at Smethwick Galton Bridge in 2018 and this turned up on the Aberystwyth & Pwllheli service, with the front coach apparently going to Pwllheli and the rear coach going to Aberystwyth according to the station CIS at the time. That would’ve been interesting! I recall it was also packed and was set-swapped at Shrewsbury for a 2 coach 158, with customers for the Pwllheli line stations then having to change again at Machynlleth.
 

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Jez

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I was at Smethwick Galton Bridge in 2018 and this turned up on the Aberystwyth & Pwllheli service, with the front coach apparently going to Pwllheli and the rear coach going to Aberystwyth according to the station CIS at the time. That would’ve been interesting! I recall it was also packed and was set-swapped at Shrewsbury for a 2 coach 158, with customers for the Pwllheli line stations then having to change again at Machynlleth.
Makes you wonder why they bother to tell people to travel in a portion of the train knowing the 150s are unsuitable beyond Shrewsbury and everyone will have to get off anyway! It just confuses passengers even more.
 

D.K.TAYLOR

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153320 + 153922 + 158827 On the 12-06 Birmingham International to Aber/Pwhelli today
 
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