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Strada

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Dear all,

I would be very grateful for advice & help.
  • The stations where you started (Gants Hill) & finished (Bank)
  • If you presented a ticket (Family member’s freedom pass).
  • I have been out of work for 2 years due to Mental health reasons. I finally managed to get back to work but stupidly picked up the wrong Oyster card at home. I used it for around 8 weeks, not realising. I was so fix sated on trying to stay in work, that I made a mistake.
  • I was stopped by a Revenue Inspector who took down notes and cautioned me. Mentioned the above to the inspector.
  • The details of any paperwork with which you were issued:
  • I then received a letter from TFL asking my side of the story. I wrote a statement to them & posted by recorded delivery, I included my medical notes also. Apologised profusely as I am truly remorseful & said I would pay any fines deemed appropriate along with TFL restitution costs. I requested to settle out of court.
  • I didn’t received any response back to my statement.
  • 3 months later I have now received a summons to a Magistrate court under Byelaw section 17.
  • I have consulted a solicitor who has advised to plead guilty.
  • I am guilty and agree, however I am so scared how this will affect my job in Financial Services
I am so distressed, and would really appreciate some advice.

Thank you in advance.
 
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mikeg

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The good news is a bylaws offence shouldn't create a criminal record. It's still not too late to approach TfL for a settlement but they are quite averse to them.
The bad news is as the by law in question is strict liability, yes you are guilty of the offence and they don't have to settle.
 

Fawkes Cat

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As far as its impact on your job, you probably need to ask people who know your specific circumstances.

In the first place, assuming that you are still talking to your doctor about your mental health, ask them if there are any support services you can talk to.

Then it would be good to find out what your employer is likely to say. If you are in a union (or if there is a staff association which can offer confidential advice) then talk to them. But depending on quite what your job involves you may have to be prepared for the worst.

None the less, when it comes to talking to your employer, you need to be fully honest with them. Given that you have had mental health difficulties and you say you mistakenly picked up the wrong card, then your employer may be sympathetic to the full truth. But if you try to cover things up, then when your employer finds out they are quite likely to say 'You didn't think you could trust us with all the facts so why should we trust you with our financial information?'. As so often, honesty is difficult but the best policy.
 

bb21

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No one is going to believe "... stupidly picked up the wrong Oyster card at home. I used it for around 8 weeks, not realising ..." A few days perhaps, but 8 weeks?

You need to face up to what you did, and not keep making excuses, especially to yourself. When it comes to talking to your employer, they are not stupid. If you are not totally honest then your employer will not believe that you have learnt your lesson.
 

Strada

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Thanks for coming back to me.
So my court date is in 3 months.

I understand a non recordable offence won’t show up in DBS.
I don’t have a union.

My company is really nice to work for. & I am finally settled and happy.
I am too scared to tell the employer.
My mental health was finally approving & this is causing me a lot of distress

Should I speak to TFL directly & try and agree an out of court settlement. I thought it was too late as I have a court date.
I am also not convinced they read my initial Statement which also had my medical notes.
Finally they have my wrong D.O.B on their court summons document. I guess an admin error as gave the correct details and showed the Revenue inspector my ID.
 

Spurs

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26 Jan 2015
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Thanks for coming back to me.
So my court date is in 3 months.

I understand a non recordable offence won’t show up in DBS.
I don’t have a union.

My company is really nice to work for. & I am finally settled and happy.
I am too scared to tell the employer.
My mental health was finally approving & this is causing me a lot of distress

Should I speak to TFL directly & try and agree an out of court settlement. I thought it was too late as I have a court date.
I am also not convinced they read my initial Statement which also had my medical notes.
Finally they have my wrong D.O.B on their court summons document. I guess an admin error as gave the correct details and showed the Revenue inspector my ID.

There's no harm in asking TFL again. It's not too late until the literal last moment - if it comes to it, you can even turn up to court early, ask where the prosecuter is, and try to reach a settlement with him/her on the spot. But the odds are against you - TFL are one of the less likely companies to settle, they like to make an example of people to put others off, they know the impact of a conviction can be much greater than just a financial penalty, and this is a fairly serious case. You're actually fairly fortunate they're only prosecuting under by-laws, because a more serious offence which would show on a DBS probably applies here.

I'm sure they've read your statement - but I really can't imagine what kind of mental health issue would mean you're competent to work in financial services, but were somehow incapable of realising for eight weeks that your Oyster belonged to somebody else and that you were never having to top it up or buy a travelcard. Even then it would beggar belief that the family member also somehow didn't notice. Frankly, even if this incredibly far-fetched scenario is the genuine and honest truth, I'd drop it anyway - it sounds ridiculous, TFL clearly don't believe you, the court very likely will not believe you and it doesn't help you even if they did, and your employer will either not believe you and you'll be in trouble for lying or will believe you in which case your capability to work would be massively in question.

Assuming that TFL won't settle, you need to be brave and approach your employer. Firstly because leaving this hanging over you will, from what your saying, be extremely detrimental to your mental health - you will never know whether your employer will find out somewhere down the line and put your livelihood at risk when you least expect it. And secondly because telling the truth is by far your best bet here. Presumably they know about your mental health and have been understanding enough to give you a chance and employ you regardless, in which case they may also be understanding about this lapse in judgement at a very stressful time in your life.
 

Fawkes Cat

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I don’t have a union.
In that case, my suggestion would be to try and find a work colleague to confide in. Ideally you want to find someone who won't speak to management without your knowledge, who has seen something like this before, and who you can trust. That's a lot to ask for, so you may not be able to find someone.
My company is really nice to work for. & I am finally settled and happy.
I am too scared to tell the employer.
My mental health was finally approving & this is causing me a lot of distress
In that case, you really need to be in touch with your doctor or whoever is helping you with your health. As I have suggested before, as well as helping you with your medical problems, they may be able to direct you to someone who can help with the legal issue.

Should I speak to TFL directly & try and agree an out of court settlement. I thought it was too late as I have a court date.
I am also not convinced they read my initial Statement which also had my medical notes.
Finally they have my wrong D.O.B on their court summons document. I guess an admin error as gave the correct details and showed the Revenue inspector my ID.

Definitely try to contact TfL. Don't ask for their sympathy because you might lose your job; instead, apologize and make clear that you have learnt the importance of making sure that you are using the right ticket. Let them know that you are willing to pay the cost of any fare that you didn't pay, and the costs of TfL's investigation. It may not work - but this is one of those times when if you don't ask you won't get.
 

some bloke

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Perhaps before notifying your employer or a colleague, it would be worth looking at requirements and the detail of the correspondence.

Are there specific requirements in your employment contract, or due to other considerations such as regulation by the FCA, to disclose a conviction that isn't for dishonesty?
Does the following apply to you?
https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/approved-persons/disclosing-criminal-convictions

If you upload the correspondence obscuring the identifying details and without the medical notes, people on here may spot things of relevance.

(I see @tony_mac is asking similar questions)
 
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Trackman

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We've had one of these before.
They received a court summons but then contacted TfL and spoke to a prosecutions manager.
Anyway, in the end they received an out of court settlement.
This one was worse, they had been using it for months.
As people have said on here, contact TfL.
 

Trackman

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No one is going to believe "... stupidly picked up the wrong Oyster card at home. I used it for around 8 weeks, not realising ..." A few days perhaps, but 8 weeks?
An Oyster card and a Freedom pass don't even remotely look the same too
 

najaB

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An Oyster card and a Freedom pass don't even remotely look the same too
At the risk of giving a guilty person an out, it's possible that they put it in a ticket wallet/case that they subsequently never opened. Though, as pointed out above, the OP still has to explain how their "Oyster card" worked for eight weeks without a top-up.
 

Clip

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At the risk of giving a guilty person an out, it's possible that they put it in a ticket wallet/case that they subsequently never opened. Though, as pointed out above, the OP still has to explain how their "Oyster card" worked for eight weeks without a top-up.

Its a good point, however if you have auto top-up on your card you will never have to use a POM as it gets sent straight to the reader I do believe when you next touch in, so its a possibility but not a very good one.

Ensuring you use the correct travel documents is essential so not checking and only realising when caught is a very silly mistake to make but one that has been made. I do hope the OP can settle out of court but if not then get some free advice from a solicitor with the whole work declaring and stuff
 
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cuccir

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Ensuring you use the correct travel documents is essential so not checking and only realising when caught is a very silly mistake to make but one that has been made.

I agree with this and don't see why it's quite so unbelievable that someone should do this by accident. What's important though is that for this prosecution, the fact that it was by accident doesn't matter.

Telephone TfL; the worst they're going to do at this stage is say no to a request to settle.

In terms of your employer: tony mac and some bloke's questions are appropriate. If your employer requires you to tell them, either through your contract or because of regulation by the FCA, then clearly you're risking your job by not telling them. Of course it's up to you to decide if that's a risk you're willing to take given that this is non-recordable BUT for many many employers, prosecution under a non-recordable Bylaws offence is not going to result in a job loss; not fulfilling your contractual obligations by not revealing a conviction could be much more serious.

Equally if there is nothing compelling you to tell them, my inclination would be to not disclose this: it will not appear on DBS checks and if your employer doesn't ask you to disclose it, there's no reason why you should.
 

some bloke

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I didn’t received any response back to my statement.
3 months later I have now received a summons...
You could first ask TfL by email, or phone if you think that's appropriate, whether you should have received another letter in the meantime. Admin errors and losses in the post do happen.

If you upload the correspondence obscuring the identifying details and without the medical notes, people on here may spot things of relevance.
Also relevant may be exactly what you told the inspector.

Those - or suitable summaries - may help people advise you on what to say to TfL.


In case they're useful at any point, Unlock and Nacro have helplines and help by email.

https://hub.unlock.org.uk/contact/

https://www.nacro.org.uk/resettlement-advice-service/support-for-individuals/

https://www.nacro.org.uk/resettleme...sing-criminal-records/criminal-record-checks/

Also:

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/dbs-checks-and-your-mental-health/

https://shop.mind.org.uk/help/mind_in_your_area?&shop=0
 
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