TFL to launch contactless payments 16 September

[Panda]

Great article here: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/25/tfl-contactless-16-september

 

[bicbasher]

Only on TfL and certain NR services which have TfL fares on Oyster.

Considering how long it took for Oyster to be introduced with the TOC's, this comes as no surprise.

 

[maniacmartin]

I hope that when the live scheme launches, we will be able to load railcard discounts

 

[Be3G]

Apparently bus fare capping won't be supported yet either, sigh. Looks like it'll be a while before I can move away from Oyster.

 

[Mojo]

Apparently bus fare capping won't be supported yet either, sigh. Looks like it'll be a while before I can move away from Oyster.

A document I have here, which came out yesterday, says that one day capping on buses will commence on August 3rd and Monday to Sunday capping from the day after.

 

[MikeWh]

Only on TfL and certain NR services which have TfL fares on Oyster.

Considering how long it took for Oyster to be introduced with the TOC's, this comes as no surprise.

It will work on all existing NR services which accept Oyster. They are continuing to work to extend the Oyster system to other places.

I hope that when the live scheme launches, we will be able to load railcard discounts

You won't. The problem is validation. The payment card will have no idea that a discount will be applied by the back office, so RPIs using the new readers will no know whether to ask to see the railcard or not.

Apparently bus fare capping won't be supported yet either, sigh. Looks like it'll be a while before I can move away from Oyster.

A document I have here, which came out yesterday, says that one day capping on buses will commence on August 3rd.

My contact at TfL confirms that bus capping will happen soon (though she won't commit on Aug 3rd) and that pilot users will also benefit at the same time. The full rollout in September will see everything counting towards the caps.

 

[bicbasher]

It will work on all existing NR services which accept Oyster. They are continuing to work to extend the Oyster system to other places.

Where does it say that? I know it's been accepted on NR services during the trial mind.

 

[MikeWh]

Where does it say that? I know it's been accepted on NR services during the trial mind.

You're right, it doesn't. But I'm 99.9999999% certain that it's a mistake. My contact at TfL has confirmed that the rollout will be to the full pilot scheme with buses included.

 

[furlong]

You won't. The problem is validation. The payment card will have no idea that a discount will be applied by the back office, so RPIs using the new readers will no know whether to ask to see the railcard or not.

The railcard would have been validated when the discount was loaded, so RPIs have no need to check it. (In any rare cases when a railcard is withdrawn for misuse, TfL would just need to be notified to disable it on their system, which is something that ought to be happening already with Oyster anyway.)

 

[paddington]

The railcard would have been validated when the discount was loaded, so RPIs have no need to check it. (In any rare cases when a railcard is withdrawn for misuse, TfL would just need to be notified to disable it on their system, which is something that ought to be happening already with Oyster anyway.)

The RPI will need to see the railcard when it is loaded to a non-photocard Oyster. It was previously possible (and maybe still is) to load a railcard to an unregistered Oyster - I think MikeWh's site had instructions.

I have a friend whose Oyster was withdrawn by an RPI because he failed to produce his railcard, but I don't know if he had a photocard Oyster or not.

 

[Mojo]

The railcard would have been validated when the discount was loaded, so RPIs have no need to check it. (In any rare cases when a railcard is withdrawn for misuse, TfL would just need to be notified to disable it on their system, which is something that ought to be happening already with Oyster anyway.)

What if you are using someone else's card?

 

[PermitToTravel]

The RPIs' machines could be given a list, updated every day, of card numbers where a railcard/priv/etc should be checked. This would work in the same way that the hotlist does, but be somewhat larger

 

[Panda]

Let them walk before expecting them to run (a marathon)!! This is a major step forward as London will become the first city in the world to accept contactless payment using the transit model (there have been trials in other cities, but all on the retail model which is of little use to transport companies with more complex fare structures).

 

[mattdickinson]

You're right, it doesn't. But I'm 99.9999999% certain that it's a mistake. My contact at TfL has confirmed that the rollout will be to the full pilot scheme with buses included.

This says that National Rail is not initially included.

TfL and National Rail continue to work together to develop the programme to expand the system to the suburban rail routes where Oyster is currently accepted.

 

[swt_passenger]

Where does it say that? I know it's been accepted on NR services during the trial mind.

The DfT also said earlier this month that it will apply to all rail services that currently accept Oyster:

The department has reached agreement with TfL and the train operators who currently accept Oyster to allow passengers to use their contactless payment cards as an alternative later this year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...15-million-funding-for-cycle-rail-integration

I suppose the unanswered question is how you define the above bit, 'later this year'...

 

[bicbasher]

I've asked Southern on Twitter if it'll be enabled on Sept 16th, awaiting a reply.

 

[mattdickinson]

I've asked Southern on Twitter if it'll be enabled on Sept 16th, awaiting a reply.

TfL don't know about interavailability...

Will it be available from 16th September on interavailable National Rail services for example Moorgate to Finsbury Park?

that's yet to be confirmed, please check our website and this stream nearer the time, thanks for the tweet

 

[bicbasher]

This tweet from TfL seems to confirm that NR isn't part of the Contactless payment scheme yet.

https://twitter.com/TfLWaystoPay/status/492627587433517057

 

[londonbridge]

re availability on National Rail, in other words if I catch a London Overground train from Canada Water to West Croydon contactless will be valid, but if I change en-route to a Southern train going to East Croydon instead it won't be? Or I could get a Southern from Shepherds Bush all the way to East Croydon, but I couldn't get on an LO at SB and change at Clapham Junction.

Edit: Please disregard second half of above as I realise how I worded it wrongly!

 

[swt_passenger]

Perhaps someone who is "twitter enabled" could ask TfL what they make of DfT's announcement that I posted a few hours ago?

 

[bicbasher]

re availability on National Rail, in other words if I catch a London Overground train from Canada Water to West Croydon contactless will be valid, but if I change en-route to a Southern train going to East Croydon instead it won't be? Or I could get a Southern from Shepherds Bush all the way to East Croydon, but I couldn't get on an LO at SB and change at Clapham Junction.

Something like that, although you won't be allowed to travel from Shepherd's Bush to Clapham Junction on Southern but on LO will be fine unless the TOC's agree to the current arrangement where TfL fares on Oyster are charged on those NR services.

 

[radamfi]

Can we assume the issue about the occasional need to enter a PIN has been resolved?

When will we be able to open an online account to manage contactless payments?

 

[mattdickinson]

Can we assume the issue about the occasional need to enter a PIN has been resolved?

When will we be able to open an online account to manage contactless payments?

Online accounts are available at https://contactless.tfl.gov.uk

 

[MikeWh]

Can we assume the issue about the occasional need to enter a PIN has been resolved?

Yes. TfL and the banks have developed a whole new contactless model which negates the need to enter a PIN. The transactions at the time of touch are zero value so the tally will never rise. The back office system works out the total charge for the day and that is what is requested from the banks.

 

[telstarbox]

Well that part is quite impressive!

 

[Be3G]

A document I have here, which came out yesterday, says that one day capping on buses will commence on August 3rd and Monday to Sunday capping from the day after.

Ah! That is good news, thank you.

 

[island]

Yes. TfL and the banks have developed a whole new contactless model which negates the need to enter a PIN. The transactions at the time of touch are zero value so the tally will never rise. The back office system works out the total charge for the day and that is what is requested from the banks.

That is indeed the theory. It presupposes the banks have programmed the card chips correctly!

 

[drbdrb]

Yes. TfL and the banks have developed a whole new contactless model which negates the need to enter a PIN. The transactions at the time of touch are zero value so the tally will never rise. The back office system works out the total charge for the day and that is what is requested from the banks.

So free rides using a pre-paid contactless debit card with a zero balance, as the money isn't requested until after the event?

 

[infobleep]

I got a free ride the other day because the Oyster reader on the bus wasn't working. These things happen, yet they didn't cancel the bus.

 

[Mike395]

So free rides using a pre-paid contactless debit card with a zero balance, as the money isn't requested until after the event?

I would imagine 'online only' contactless cards (almost exclusively on prepaid cards) wont work - could be wrong though.