TFL pass back question.

[sprunt]

No, the hopper definitely does work in the opposite direction.

It's unconditional unlimited bus/tram travel within 62 minutes (advertised as one hour) of first touching in on a bus/tram.

Indeed, when the hopper was introduced this was advertised as one of the benefits - you could get the bus to the shops, do your shopping and get the bus home for a single fare.

 

[greyman42]

Sunderland have an FA Cup tie away at Fulham and the message boards are full of people asking about contactless and Oyster and why does everyone have to have a seperate card, why can’t you just tap a card and then hand it to the person with you for them to tap and put multiple fares on one card, etc. I know how the system works of course, I’m just trying to educate my fellow fans a bit.

Regarding the Underground; the last time i visited Fulham as an away supporter we were held at Putney Bridge, at the bottom of the stairs, after the match till a suitable train arrived and then herded onto the train. There was no opportunity to tap in.

 

[londonbridge]

I’ve had similar in the past, with a concert at Wembley where I couldn’t tap in at Wembley Central for the return journey due to problems with the readers. In those sorts of circumstances journeys will be auto completed by the system.

Also regarding hoppers I once had an appointment with a specialist doctor, took the tram, got there, was seen early, came out and got tram back, later realised I’d managed a hopper and was only charged one fare.

 

[methethpropbut]

My understanding is that you can only touch in once on the same bus making the same journey. The bus computer is reset at the start of each journey. If revenue officers board they download a list of the cards validated on that journey and then get each passenger to present their card for checking. They would absolutely notice and have a huge problem if more than one passenger claimed to be using the same card.

Do you know what happens if a passenger legitimately uses the same bus twice on the same journey? With some long or circuitous routes it must certainly be possible and actually not at all unreasonable - say I take the 205 to Mile End, get the underground to King's Cross, and reboard the same 205?

 

[Haywain]

Do you know what happens if a passenger legitimately uses the same bus twice on the same journey? With some long or circuitous routes it must certainly be possible and actually not at all unreasonable - say I take the 205 to Mile End, get the underground to King's Cross, and reboard the same 205?

Presumably, as there would be an underground journey in between, there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Deerfold]

Presumably, as there would be an underground journey in between, there wouldn't be a problem.

Although interesting as to how this would be recorded on the list of tickets used on the bus.

 

[Haywain]

Although interesting as to how this would be recorded on the list of tickets used on the bus.

I'm guessing that in some way the touch doesn't simply record but looks at what the last touch was - this would have to happen for the hopper fare to be applied and, if that happens, would see the underground touches and deal with the bus accordingly.

 

[Deerfold]

I'm guessing that in some way the touch doesn't simply record but looks at what the last touch was - this would have to happen for the hopper fare to be applied and, if that happens, would see the underground touches and deal with the bus accordingly.

I'm not sure what you mean here. All I'm talking about is the list of cards used that is supplied to an inspector when they board the bus.

 

[Haywain]

I'm not sure what you mean here. All I'm talking about is the list of cards used that is supplied to an inspector when they board the bus.

Well, it would be listed regardless. When you board the bus the second time it would simply overwrite the first record, if it works as I expect it would.

 

[Deerfold]

Well, it would be listed regardless. When you board the bus the second time it would simply overwrite the first record, if it works as I expect it would.

I wasn't saying it wouldn't be listed. I was interested in whether it does do what you assume.

 

[jon81uk]

It’s not necessarily a case of being unaware of it, more a lack of understanding of how it works.

You don't really need to know how it works. Just tap your own card on the reader. One card per person.

 

[Benjwri]

I'm guessing that in some way the touch doesn't simply record but looks at what the last touch was - this would have to happen for the hopper fare to be applied and, if that happens, would see the underground touches and deal with the bus accordingly.

The actual list of tapped in cards is stored by the bus for revenue and top stop pass back is what I think is being talked about, from what I’ve read and seen online it seems you can tap again on the same bus after a few stops.

As for whether the hopper fare will be charged, any journey on rail or underground will break the hopper fare, and if you tap on another bus you will be charged another hopper, even within the time limit. Not sure if that’s the case for contactless though, that’s just how oyster works.

 

[londonbridge]

You don't really need to know how it works. Just tap your own card on the reader. One card per person.

I’ll put it another way, it’s not understanding that the way it works is WHY it needs one card per person…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jan 2023 ==

As for whether the hopper fare will be charged, any journey on rail or underground will break the hopper fare, and if you tap on another bus you will be charged another hopper, even within the time limit.

No, that’s wrong, bus, train, bus all within one hour DOESNT break a hopper.

 

[Benjwri]

No, that’s wrong, bus, train, bus all within one hour DOESNT break a hopper.

Ahhh didn’t realise this had changed, it did at launch.

 

[MikeWh]

Ahhh didn’t realise this had changed, it did at launch.

Yes, the initial implimentation only allowed two bus journeys and was built on the coding used by the tram extension buses in New Addington. The full implimentation came several months later and allowed any number of bus journeys with optional train in the middle.

As to the query about getting on the same bus later on, I'll see what I can find out.

 

[RJ]

My understanding is that you can only touch in once on the same bus making the same journey. The bus computer is reset at the start of each journey. If revenue officers board they download a list of the cards validated on that journey and then get each passenger to present their card for checking. They would absolutely notice and have a huge problem if more than one passenger claimed to be using the same card.

They must have changed the system - I think the ticket machine itself used to only "remember" card information for 90 seconds for passback, PAYG refund and history printing purposes though of course all the validation data is stored elsewhere. Back in the day I used to go to multiple Co-ops in the evening for a hustle. One involved getting on a 386 at Greenwich Co-op, getting off at Shooters Hill Co-op then hotfooting it (or taking an 89) to the Co-op further down Shooters Hill before getting on the same 386 to Herbert Road Co-op. Never had an issue with rejoining the same bus back then!