TfGM to cut funding for buses

[transmanche]

I was making reference in my posting to your earlier comment on the thread that said ..."and ratepayers. How 1980's"

I would suggest that you look at the whole posting that I made, rather than to abstract just a single part of it and then to proceed to use it totally out of the context in which it was made.

I did. And none of it had any relevance to the jocular comment that I made, about your use of an archaic term. Bringing water rates into the discussion was just a tad bizarre... water rate payers do not fund TfGM!

 

[tbtc]

The ENCTS pass is not just something that is paid for solely out of local authority funding. Is there not a grant contribution from Central Government to local authorities ? There is a time limit upon which these passes are not valid upon near to the end of the day and most certainly not on all-night buses.

Night-time services and their funding is not a comparable matter, unless, of course, you feel that this too should be something that Central Government should make a contribution to.

Have I misunderstood the reasoning behind your posting ?

My post was in response to the comment that "Young people 'going out' clearly already have enough money to go out - older people rarely have that luxury"

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I did. And none of it had any relevance to the jocular comment that I made, about your use of an archaic term. Bringing water rates into the discussion was just a tad bizarre... water rate payers do not fund TfGM!

Two points worthy of clarification.....

1) Your comment..."and ratepayers. How 1980's"...was made by you in response to a posting by Robertj21a...not a posting of mine.

2) My posting that ended with a reference to water rates, which was given a totally separate paragraph to itself in that posting, was made in response to your posting decrying the use of the word "ratepayers" (see item 1 above), as a grammatical example of how the people who pay water rates are indeed deemed to be referred to as "ratepayers", despite your contention that this term is "1980s". It had nothing whatsoever to do with the funding of TfGM.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My post was in response to the comment that "Young people 'going out' clearly already have enough money to go out - older people rarely have that luxury"

As ever, I thank you for that clarification.

 

[transmanche]

2) My posting that ended with a reference to water rates, which was given a totally separate paragraph to itself in that posting, was made in response to your posting decrying the use of the word "ratepayers" (see item 1 above), as a grammatical example of how the people who pay water rates are indeed deemed to be referred to as "ratepayers", despite your contention that this term is "1980s". It had nothing whatsoever to do with the funding of TfGM

I made a jocular response about the use of an obsolete word to describe the local tax payers who fund TfGM. Council tax replaced the community charge in 1993; which itself replaced GB domestic rates in 1989/1990. So there have been no domestic ratepayers in GB since then. Hence the use of: "How 1980s "

And your response is to say that some local councillors still use the ratepayers name as their grouping: so what? Then an instruction to read the dictionary: irrelevant. And finally bringing up the issue of water rates: again irrelevant.

So what was the point of your post in the first place? What point are to trying to prove?

 

[ainsworth74]

Gentlemen I think it's time we move on from this and back to the topic at hand. If you wish to discuss further there is a fully functional PM facility available to you

 

[Greybeard33]

To be fair, I would like to see Manchester's ENCTS proposition revert to bus only, 09:30 to 23:00, and not bus/train/tram including beyond 11pm

As a holder of an ENCTS pass I obviously have a vested interest, but I do wonder if the law of unintended consequences might come into play here? Since TfGM, as an economy measure, withdrew the concession of reduced fares before 09:30, I have rearranged many journeys to start after 09:30, when previously I was willing to pay the concessionary fare. Consequently I now make more free journeys than I did before and get more financial benefit from the pass, not less - clearly not was intended!

Withdrawal of the train/tram concession would undoubtedly trigger a modal shift from rail to bus, but also increase some pass holders' use of their private cars, and so increase road traffic congestion and pollution, contrary to TfGM's objectives. Off peak suburban rail services would cart around more fresh air, and TfGM might have to increase its subsidy to Northern Rail in compensation.

 

[transmanche]

Withdrawal of the train/tram concession would undoubtedly trigger a modal shift from rail to bus, but also increase some pass holders' use of their private cars, and so increase road traffic congestion and pollution, contrary to TfGM's objectives. Off peak suburban rail services would cart around more fresh air, and TfGM might have to increase its subsidy to Northern Rail in compensation.

Up in Tyne & Wear, an ENCTS pass doesn't give free travel on Metro or Trains. But pass holders can 'upgrade' to a Gold Card, which is loaded on to the ENCTS pass. This gives free travel on Metro and the ferry (plus Newcastle-Sunderland trains) after 09.30 Mon-Fri and all day at weekends, on public holidays and throughout July and August. It costs £25 for T&W residents, £35 for those outside T&W.

Perhaps TfGM should consider a similar system for trams and/or trains?

 

[Deerfold]

As a holder of an ENCTS pass I obviously have a vested interest, but I do wonder if the law of unintended consequences might come into play here? Since TfGM, as an economy measure, withdrew the concession of reduced fares before 09:30, I have rearranged many journeys to start after 09:30, when previously I was willing to pay the concessionary fare. Consequently I now make more free journeys than I did before and get more financial benefit from the pass, not less - clearly not was intended!

Whilst there will be those such as you who can change when you travel I suspect this was aimed at not subisidising those who quality for a pass but are still in regular employment.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

May I revert back to the very last line in the quoted section of the very first posting made upon this thread which stated the the GMCA (Greater Manchester Combined Authority) would be considering the implications contained within the 2014/2015 budget proposals at their meeting that was due to be held before the end of this month.

May I ask if any matters that this GMCA meeting decides upon that differs from those budget proposals be reported upon this thread by any forum members who are privy to the matters decided at that meeting.

 

[Greybeard33]

Whilst there will be those such as you who can change when you travel I suspect this was aimed at not subsidising those who qualify for a pass but are still in regular employment.

In fact I am still in regular (part time) employment, but was able to adjust my working hours to commute (by rail) outside the morning peak. Before I became eligible for the pass I used to commute by car. I find it is also often possible to arrange shopping, leisure and social trips to start after 09:30, so as to take advantage of free bus, rail and tram travel.