TfGM Bus franchising

[noddingdonkey]

It’ll be interesting to see if it keeps the same route in West Yorkshire

When First transferred it from Oldham to Huddersfield operation last year (which at the time was thought be so it was kept outside of the Bee Network) they diverted it off the main road in two places to serve Hard End and Linthwaite replacing service 183 which was withdrawn.

As a result you would now have the Bee Network providing a local round the houses service in West Yorkshire

I look forward to seeing how this pans out. Hopefully with the 184 going back to its traditional route (ideally also losing that silly fiddly bit at Greenacres) and the 183 reinstated to serve local journeys. I may have a vested interest as I live on the section that the 184 was diverted away from which now just has what's left of the 185 service.

 

[Mollman]

It’ll be interesting to see if it keeps the same route in West Yorkshire

When First transferred it from Oldham to Huddersfield operation last year (which at the time was thought be so it was kept outside of the Bee Network) they diverted it off the main road in two places to serve Hard End and Linthwaite replacing service 183 which was withdrawn.

As a result you would now have the Bee Network providing a local round the houses service in West Yorkshire

We have that in Lancashire with the 362 which provides the main bus service between Coppull and Chorley.

 

[SLTRegular]

As someone that lived 5 minutes from the 395 corridor it's insane Wigan-Skelmersdale is half hourly. It used to get full and standing loads only 6 years ago.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Despite exhortations in Bee Network publicity for bus travellers to say Yellow to the Bee Network buses, those buses still stubbornly refuse to answer the greeting given to them....

 

[Citibus]

All of Transdev/Ray Stenning's silly route renumbering & brands around Bury & Rochdale get undone (Bury Bolts/Rochdale Runners/Trax).

Newly announced on https://tfgm.com/the-bee-network/bus-services is the list of services joining in tranche 2. This includes the renumbering of the Bury & Rochdale locals as follows:

6: (will change to 406): Rochdale - Queensway - Kirkholt circular
B1 (will change to 477): Bury - Summerseat - Peel Brow - Ramsbottom
B2 (will change to 487): Bury - Limefield - Nangreaves
B3 (will change to 433): Bury – Ferngrove - Heywood – Nordon
B4 (will change to 475): Heywood - Heap Bridge - Bury
R1 (will change to 434): Rochdale - Rochdale Infirmary - Syke
R2 (will change to 461): Rochdale - Shawfield Circular
R3 (will change to 447): Wallbank - Rochdale
R4 (will change to 451): Rochdale - Peppermint Bridge - Rochdale
R6 (will change to 450): Rochdale - Peppermint Bridge - Rochdale
R7 (will change to 434): Rochdale - Kirkholt - Castleton - Middleton
R8 (will change to 442): Rochdale - Bamford - Norden
R9 (will change to 435): Rochdale - Milnrow - Buckstones - High Crompton - Rochdale
R10 (will change to 436): Rochdale - High Crompton - Buckstones - Milnrow - Rochdale
R11 (will change to 437): Rochdale – Lane Head

seems to be two future 434 services (R1 and R7) as it stands

 

[johncrossley]

seems to be two future 434 services (R1 and R7) as it stands

Maybe they are being combined into one route?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Maybe they are being combined into one route?

Middleton to Syke is not a journey that would readily spring to mind.

 

[Andyh82]

From the list above, this must mean that in terms of Rosso services

402, 403 will be run by Stagecoach (Oldham)
Lake Line, Trax & Rochdale Runners will be run by First (Rochdale)
Tottington Line 469 will be run by Stagecoach (Middleton)
Bury Bolts will be run by Stagecoach (Queens Road)

 

[johncrossley]

Middleton to Syke is not a journey that would readily spring to mind.

Does it have to be? Buses crossing a town centre aren't a weird thing.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why was there a need for the changes at the bus stands at Rochdale bus station that have appeared on the website of the controlling organisation?

 

[M60lad]

Why was there a need for the changes at the bus stands at Rochdale bus station that have appeared on the website of the controlling organisation?

From what I was told a while back from one of the Bee Network (TfgM) Supervisors at Rochdale its in preparation for the Mellor Strata's that will be used on some routes in/around Rochdale as due to the layout of Rochdale Bus Station only some stands can actually accomodate them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Certain people have aspirations that would see car owners move en bloc to bus travel. If that should ever occur, how many extra buses would need to be provided to cater for these extra passengers and would the queues at bus stops be more fuller as a result?

 

[Leyland Bus]

Certain people have aspirations that would see car owners move en bloc to bus travel. If that should ever occur, how many extra buses would need to be provided to cater for these extra passengers and would the queues at bus stops be more fuller as a result?

I'm assuming you're thinking aloud rather actually wanting answers as your question has so many permutations it's unanswerable?

Although the last one is rather obvious, if more people use the bus then ofcourse the queues would be bigger...

 

[Deerfold]

I'm assuming you're thinking aloud rather actually wanting answers as your question has so many permutations it's unanswerable?

Although the last one is rather obvious, if more people use the bus then of course the queues would be bigger...

Until the frequency of the bus service improves.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Until the frequency of the bus service improves.

Would extra buses be needed to achieve that?

 

[Deerfold]

Would extra buses be needed to achieve that?

Usually, yes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Usually, yes.

As far as anyone knows, is it a stated aspiration from Bee Network to increase the frequency of bus services and have made allowance for this when planning new orders for buses?

 

[Deerfold]

As far as anyone knows, is it a stated aspiration from Bee Network to increase the frequency of bus services and have made allowance for this when planning new orders for buses?

I'm not sure, but presumably if they're successful in achieving modal shift, the busiest routes may need extra buses at higher frequencies. I doubt this will occur suddenly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2024 ==

Newly announced on https://tfgm.com/the-bee-network/bus-services is the list of services joining in tranche 2. This includes the renumbering of the Bury & Rochdale locals as follows:

6: (will change to 406): Rochdale - Queensway - Kirkholt circular
B1 (will change to 477): Bury - Summerseat - Peel Brow - Ramsbottom
B2 (will change to 487): Bury - Limefield - Nangreaves
B3 (will change to 433): Bury – Ferngrove - Heywood – Nordon
B4 (will change to 475): Heywood - Heap Bridge - Bury
R1 (will change to 434): Rochdale - Rochdale Infirmary - Syke
R2 (will change to 461): Rochdale - Shawfield Circular
R3 (will change to 447): Wallbank - Rochdale
R4 (will change to 451): Rochdale - Peppermint Bridge - Rochdale
R6 (will change to 450): Rochdale - Peppermint Bridge - Rochdale
R7 (will change to 434): Rochdale - Kirkholt - Castleton - Middleton
R8 (will change to 442): Rochdale - Bamford - Norden
R9 (will change to 435): Rochdale - Milnrow - Buckstones - High Crompton - Rochdale
R10 (will change to 436): Rochdale - High Crompton - Buckstones - Milnrow - Rochdale
R11 (will change to 437): Rochdale – Lane Head

seems to be two future 434 services (R1 and R7) as it stands

The R1 has been corrected on that page. It will be the 440.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm not sure, but presumably if they're successful in achieving modal shift, the busiest routes may need extra buses at higher frequencies.

Was recently reducing the Saturday 368 service that serves Stockport-Edgeley-Cheadle Hulme-Heald Green-Wythenshawe to 3 buses an hour from 4 buses an hour a good example of that "modal shift"?

 

[py_megapixel]

Was recently reducing the Saturday 368 service that serves Stockport-Edgeley-Cheadle Hulme-Heald Green-Wythenshawe to 3 buses an hour from 4 buses an hour a good example of that "modal shift"?

That bus is a commercial Stagecoach route and has nothing to do with the Bee Network for now.

 

[Deerfold]

Was recently reducing the Saturday 368 service that serves Stockport-Edgeley-Cheadle Hulme-Heald Green-Wythenshawe to 3 buses an hour from 4 buses an hour a good example of that "modal shift"?

You were asking what would happen if, hypothetically, there were a lot more people catching the buses. I've made no comment on how likely they are to achieve that.

 

[sprunt]

Tottington Line 469 will be run by Stagecoach (Middleton)

Fingers crossed it gets better than it is now.

(Fingers on other hand crossed it gets extended back to Rammy at some point in the future)

 

[Tim33160]

Advance notice of Bee Network route number changes from 7 April - reverting Wigan 1 - 10A to 601 - 611, plus removing some of the duplicated numbers

1 / 2 (will change to 601 and 602): Wigan Highfield - Grange Circular
3 / 4 (will change to 603 and 604) : Wigan - Kitt Green Circular
5 / 6 (will change to 605 and 606): Wigan - Beech Hill Circular
7 (will change to 607): Bolton - Wigan
8 (will change to 608): Leigh - Wigan
9 (will change to 609): Higher Folds - Wigan
10 (will change to 610): Leigh - Wigan
10A (will change to 611): Wigan – Leigh

129 (will change to 553): Higher Green - Boothstown - Farnworth
362 (will change to 632): Chorley - Wigan
590 (will change to 589): Leigh - Lowton Circular

https://tfgm.com/the-bee-network/bu...ee-Network-services--since-24-September-2023-

 

[johncrossley]

Edited: no need to look at X (see post below)

 

[Tim33160]

On the Bee Network X (Twitter) page they have started putting graphs of punctuality comparing current punctuality with the equivalent period pre-Bee Network and non-Bee Network routes. All graphs I have seen so far show a slight improvement.

Also started being listed at https://tfgm.com/ways-to-travel/bus/punctuality-report presume this will grow weekly - also mention of Monthly performance reports

 

[tomoufc]

It claims to be based on Traffic Commissioner data (which I'm sure it is). Does anyone know if that data is publicly accessible?

 

[Man of Kent]

It claims to be based on Traffic Commissioner data (which I'm sure it is). Does anyone know if that data is publicly accessible?

I can't see any such claim reading the details on https://tfgm.com/ways-to-travel/bus/punctuality-report (sorry, can't copy it all, certain parts open up and close down others). In fact, it says "Punctuality is calculated based on the difference between the time a bus actually leaves a bus stop timing point (based on Automatic Vehicle Location (AVL) tracker information) and the departure time on the bus timetable" which as far as I know, means the ticket machine.

It does however refer to the standard as "The Senior Traffic Commissioner (responsible for licensing and regulating bus services) classes services running between one minute early and five minutes late as ‘on time’. This allows for road traffic conditions, which can affect bus running times."

In actual practice, that might be achievable at the start of a journey, but most operators for which I have seen data have an overall figure in the 80s% - as indeed are these Bee Network results.

 

[GusB]

The posts concerning the Etihad Stadium routes have been moved to a dedicated thread:

Manchester City and TfGM to introduce trial services to Etihad Stadium

There is a new network of dedicated buses to the Etihad stadium from across Greater Manchester (and a bit beyond) on matchdays. This is a trial until the end of the season. The obvious joke here is that a similar network would be pointless for Old Trafford as those fans don't live locally! (I...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[tomoufc]

I can't see any such claim reading the details on https://tfgm.com/ways-to-travel/bus/punctuality-report (sorry, can't copy it all, certain parts open up and close down others). In fact, it says "Punctuality is calculated based on the difference between the time a bus actually leaves a bus stop timing point (based on Automatic Vehicle Location (AVL) tracker information) and the departure time on the bus timetable" which as far as I know, means the ticket machine.

It does however refer to the standard as "The Senior Traffic Commissioner (responsible for licensing and regulating bus services) classes services running between one minute early and five minutes late as ‘on time’. This allows for road traffic conditions, which can affect bus running times."

In actual practice, that might be achievable at the start of a journey, but most operators for which I have seen data have an overall figure in the 80s% - as indeed are these Bee Network results.

Well spotted, and thanks.

I assume that this isn’t publicly available though. Some Burnham dislikers are claiming this is made up data, which is ridiculous (much more likely that bad results simply wouldn’t have been released).

As far as I know , the traffic commissioner does log performance data, but it is never publicly released (although I believe transport authorities have access).

Anyway, if anyone knows more about this subject, I would be grateful for your input. Cheers

 

[GCH100]

It has been mentioned in the Manchester Evening News, that later in the year Night Buses are to be trialled in the Wigan and Bolton area's on routes to/from Manchester, but no formal details yet.

Here is the link:-

MSN