TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[MCRTransitYT]

Does anybody know if Stagecoach 44904 has moved to Eccles yet?

 

[toms]

Minor question - anyone happen to know what's going on with getting the destination blind configuration to match up between Bee Network operators? They seem to have updated a few E400s at Sharston and then just stopped.

Although now I think of it, are those older E400s planned to get the new Mobitec controllers installed soon? They'll need them before October to meet the new accessibility regulations

If you are talking about the select E400Hs and BYDs with Metroline which took a similar configuration and font similar to Go North West, they went back on that idea and went back to the Stagecoach style blind. There is no set font as of now that operators have to abide by, so all is a bit messy atm. First have switched to paged via points as opposed to the scrolling via points they were using for the first almost 2 years of Bee Network operation. The problem with fonts is that there is two different systems used for blinds and audio visuals, which is ultimately causing problems with the AVAs because both systems are now slightly different (announcements). With their being Mobitec and Hanover, it’s hard to keep the fonts completely the same, other than Go Ahead who seem to have mastered this and all buses have the same font reguardless of system. There’s also problems with Stagecoach retrofitted buses with Hanover blinds and Mobitec controllers not showing via points

 

[mayneway]

1> What's happened to the Middleton Depot ex Northeast E400Hs have they been disposed of yet or are they in reserve?

2> What's the latest with Evora 21424 that was involved in the incident with the Diamond Bus MMC200 in Eccles last year?

3> Why is E300 27954 now at Oldham Depot ex Queens Road Depot and has anything replaced it at Queens Road?

The ex north east Hybrids are reportedly in storage pending sale/use by other authorities going to the franchise model (Merseyside).

 

[darylyates17]

The ex north east Hybrids are reportedly in storage pending sale/use by other authorities going to the franchise model (Merseyside).

Can’t see Merseyside wanting them unless they are stop gaps.

 

[DDJohn]

The Hybrids & Enviro400 from Middleton (that have not yet moved from Manchester) and the Hybrids from Stockport (That are not being used) are currently at the depot that Middleton used while the main Middleton Depot was being electrified. Just around the corner from Hollinwood Tram Stop (Next to the Morrisons)

 

[W176 XMA]

Does anybody know if Stagecoach 44904 has moved to Eccles yet?

Still at queens

 

[mayneway]

Can’t see Merseyside wanting them unless they are stop gaps.

believe they are stop gaps while vehicles are prepped and painted.
There was talk of them replacing the B9’s at Hyde road but don’t think this is happening now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Feb 2026 ==

The Hybrids & Enviro400 from Middleton (that have not yet moved from Manchester) and the Hybrids from Stockport (That are not being used) are currently at the depot that Middleton used while the main Middleton Depot was being electrified. Just around the corner from Hollinwood Tram Stop (Next to the Morrisons)

The site is leased by TFGM and is being used as a storage yard.

 

[py_megapixel]

If you are talking about the select E400Hs and BYDs with Metroline which took a similar configuration and font similar to Go North West, they went back on that idea and went back to the Stagecoach style blind. There is no set font as of now that operators have to abide by, so all is a bit messy atm.

Are you sure they've actually switched any of them back to the Stagecoach-style setup? Only a few were updated in the first place and I saw one a week or two ago.

The BYDs are fitted Mobitec controllers as part of the interior refresh which I believe most/all of them have now received.

First have switched to paged via points as opposed to the scrolling via points they were using for the first almost 2 years of Bee Network operation.

First's blinds were a mess. Different routes had completely different layouts, and some had e.g. destinations in all caps or the route number on the wrong side of the display, both of which are discouraged for readability reasons.
Good if they've fixed that now.

The problem with fonts is that there is two different systems used for blinds and audio visuals, which is ultimately causing problems with the AVAs because both systems are now slightly different (announcements).

Yes. For reasons I don't understand they decided to standardise on Mobitec after ordering several batches of new buses, many of which came with Hanover equipment!

To my mind it would have made more sense to pick an option to standardise on and then spec all the new buses with the same, to avoid the situation they're now stuck in where they'll now have to maintain both for quite some time.

Admittedly I'm not expert and there might be good reasons for doing it the way they have (perhaps they wanted to trial both options before making a decision)

 

[mattyharding]

Are you sure they've actually switched any of them back to the Stagecoach-style setup? Only a few were updated in the first place and I saw one a week or two ago.

The BYDs are fitted Mobitec controllers as part of the interior refresh which I believe most/all of them have now received.


First's blinds were a mess. Different routes had completely different layouts, and some had e.g. destinations in all caps or the route number on the wrong side of the display, both of which are discouraged for readability reasons.
Good if they've fixed that now.


Yes. For reasons I don't understand they decided to standardise on Mobitec after ordering several batches of new buses, many of which came with Hanover equipment!

To my mind it would have made more sense to pick an option to standardise on and then spec all the new buses with the same, to avoid the situation they're now stuck in where they'll now have to maintain both for quite some time.

Admittedly I'm not expert and there might be good reasons for doing it the way they have (perhaps they wanted to trial both options before making a decision)

I more prefer the Hanover blinds as they show more than the Mobitec blinds

 

[mattb7tl]

Yes. For reasons I don't understand they decided to standardise on Mobitec after ordering several batches of new buses, many of which came with Hanover equipment!

To my mind it would have made more sense to pick an option to standardise on and then spec all the new buses with the same, to avoid the situation they're now stuck in where they'll now have to maintain both for quite some time.

Admittedly I'm not expert and there might be good reasons for doing it the way they have (perhaps they wanted to trial both options before making a decision)

The industry still seems to struggle to keep next stop announcements and on bus screens working reliably I suspect that is a big driver behind the move away from Hanover.

One of the few operators where you can almost always board a bus and have both audio and screens functioning is Transdev, and they use Mobitec. That said, correlation is not causation, it may be less about the badge on the kit and more about integration, maintenance standards, and how seriously faults get chased.

But from my own observations. Hanover equipped fleets also seem to have a higher failure rate and poorer performance when they do work. Laggy displays, long load times, and basic states not switching. On my local operator, for example, the "this bus is reversing" screen can genuinely take close to a minute to appear, leaving passengers staring at a black screen in the meantime. Once my operator has managed to get audio and screens functioning they usually break within less than a week.

 

[py_megapixel]

The industry still seems to struggle to keep next stop announcements and on bus screens working reliably I suspect that is a big driver behind the move away from Hanover.

In reality I think it has more to do with how well the operator manages it.

I travel often by bus in Sheffield, where First and Stagecoach both use identical Hanover kit but it behaves quite differently between the two operators.

Stagecoach, when it works, it works well, but they don't seem bothered (and/or don't have the staff with the ability) to keep it up to date. For example, the 52 route was cut back about 5 months ago (!!) and the announcements still can't announce the new terminus. It's a bit embarrassing really, especially as the inability to announce the terminus apparently prevents the announcements working for the whole journey, which means one of the busiest routes in Sheffield has live information in one direction only.

First are almost the opposite. They seem to change the software all the time but it is a complete mess. It would take far too long to list all the faults they have!

In Manchester I don't notice much difference in the failure rates of the two systems. They seem to fail in different ways though. The most common things I see on Mobitec are either never advancing beyond the first stop (e.g. on a journey out of Piccadilly Gardens it shows "Charlotte Street" for the whole journey) or it apparently not registering that the doors are opening/closing (which means it either never announces the route number at all, or announces it at every stop regardless of whether the bus has actually served it or not). On Hanover it's more common to see a completely blank display, which is arguably better as at least it's not then displaying incorrect information, but it causes a problem on the newest E400s (both electric and diesel) as they don't have conventional "bus stopping" lights and rely on the display for that.

 

[toms]

Are you sure they've actually switched any of them back to the Stagecoach-style setup? Only a few were updated in the first place and I saw one a week or two ago.

The BYDs are fitted Mobitec controllers as part of the interior refresh which I believe most/all of them have now received.


First's blinds were a mess. Different routes had completely different layouts, and some had e.g. destinations in all caps or the route number on the wrong side of the display, both of which are discouraged for readability reasons.
Good if they've fixed that now.


Yes. For reasons I don't understand they decided to standardise on Mobitec after ordering several batches of new buses, many of which came with Hanover equipment!

To my mind it would have made more sense to pick an option to standardise on and then spec all the new buses with the same, to avoid the situation they're now stuck in where they'll now have to maintain both for quite some time.

Admittedly I'm not expert and there might be good reasons for doing it the way they have (perhaps they wanted to trial both options before making a decision)

A couple of the older E400s that had the Go North West style blind were pictured months ago with that type of blind on Flickr and then were pictured again more recently using the Stagecoach style. I think a couple E400 and BYD + B5LH are still going around with it. None of the other fleet ever had it introduced for some reason

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2026 ==

In reality I think it has more to do with how well the operator manages it.

I travel often by bus in Sheffield, where First and Stagecoach both use identical Hanover kit but it behaves quite differently between the two operators.

Stagecoach, when it works, it works well, but they don't seem bothered (and/or don't have the staff with the ability) to keep it up to date. For example, the 52 route was cut back about 5 months ago (!!) and the announcements still can't announce the new terminus. It's a bit embarrassing really, especially as the inability to announce the terminus apparently prevents the announcements working for the whole journey, which means one of the busiest routes in Sheffield has live information in one direction only.

First are almost the opposite. They seem to change the software all the time but it is a complete mess. It would take far too long to list all the faults they have!

In Manchester I don't notice much difference in the failure rates of the two systems. They seem to fail in different ways though. The most common things I see on Mobitec are either never advancing beyond the first stop (e.g. on a journey out of Piccadilly Gardens it shows "Charlotte Street" for the whole journey) or it apparently not registering that the doors are opening/closing (which means it either never announces the route number at all, or announces it at every stop regardless of whether the bus has actually served it or not). On Hanover it's more common to see a completely blank display, which is arguably better as at least it's not then displaying incorrect information, but it causes a problem on the newest E400s (both electric and diesel) as they don't have conventional "bus stopping" lights and rely on the display for that.

The problem is there’s only one person that I know of but I could be wrong that is actually updating the software in Manchester. There’s two systems in Manchester with Mobitec primarily harder to update.

Hanover has more clearer and faster announcements without long pauses whilst Mobitec, for Go North West and Diamond for example will announce “this is the.. X.. service to.. Bolton” and for Stagecoach and Metroline will announce “this is a.. X.. service to.. Piccadilly”. In terms of technical glitches and overall problems, some might interpret there being a problem but there actually isn’t it’s actually driver fault.

Driver Problems I notice is:

if this driver is has overshot or is too far away from the stop and has opened the doors, the door announcement will not play.

Drivers particularly on the 163 will just put the system into diversion to kill the announcements.

Particularly with Stagecoach, drivers are only setting the display and not the announcements (could be training error)

Software issues:

Mobitec AVA freezing on previous route and not updating for next service

Mobitec AVA freezing on one screen, showing the bee network logo then going back to route info and continuously doing it whilst other screens properly displaying.

Hanover not loading route info, and showing “HANOVER”

Hanover AVA freezing on “Thanks for Travelling with us” and not updating for next route.

Go North West Hanover equipment (only BYDs and E200MMCs have this) the AVA has door announcements disabled.

Go North Wests E200MMCs announcements speakers are way too quiet.

Stagecoach 69/20 MMCs dot matrix displays for AVA flickering, not showing anything, freezing and doing reverse of the actual route it’s doing although this has been a known issue for a long time and are being replaced with Mobitec so does not matter.

Stagecoach Mobitec retrofitted with Hanover only showing final destination on blinds. (Known issue)

Metroline ex Stagecoach BYDs with Mobitev retrofit showing all route info but no announcements.

 

[Statto]

One thing i do loath about the Manchester screens, is the scrolling, they'll display next stop, then any travel info (like Piccadilly blockade), then go to an advert, one thing i do like is they show next train departures when the bus is passing a Station, but you have little time to read as it scrolls to the next screen far too quickly for my liking.

 

[mattyharding]

One thing i do loath about the Manchester screens, is the scrolling, they'll display next stop, then any travel info (like Piccadilly blockade), then go to an advert, one thing i do like is they show next train departures when the bus is passing a Station, but you have little time to read as it scrolls to the next screen far too quickly for my liking.

I notice that sometimes on the 348 (when it's a modern bus) that they'll show departures for Stalybridge station but I agree it's too short

 

[TheSmiths82]

I have noticed on the 86 the displays always get stuck on Charlette Street, I did tell the person who's job it is to update them and he said he would investigate. A year later it is still doing exactly the same thing. It is very strange how it always gets stuck at the same point.

 

[mayneway]

couple of the older E400s that had the Go North West style blind were pictured months ago with that type of blind on Flickr and then were pictured again more recently using the Stagecoach style. I think a couple E400 and BYD + B5LH are still going around with it. None of the other fleet ever had it introduced for some reason

This is to more to do with controllers being taken from VOR buses and fitted to other buses but not having an update.
So a while ago one of the Stagecoach E400’s at Queens road appeared out on the road with GNW style blinds on the 98. The controller had been robbed of a B9 and not updated.

Assuming controllers are still being borrowed at Hyde road from VOR B9’s hence the different set ups.

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

This is to more to do with controllers being taken from VOR buses and fitted to other bids but not having an update.
So a while ago one of the Stagecoach E400’s at Queens road appeared out on the road with GNW style blinds on the 98. The controller had been robbed off a B9 and not updated.

As can be seen here:

 

[mayneway]

As can be seen here:

Thanks.
To be fair it actually looks really smart in my opinion and I’ve said for a long time Go North West do it the best way with clear concise displays.

 

[mattyharding]

Thanks.
To be fair it actually looks really smart in my opinion and I’ve said for a long time Go North West do it the best way with clear concise displays.

I have seen a few GNW buses out and about and they are very easy to read but the Stagecoach ones are a bit hit or miss

 

[Statto]

The vehicles still in the operators original livery with Bee Network logos plastered on looks really odd & ugly, i know they're going to be repainted, with some being withdrawn due to age, but still.

 

[Redmike]

There were 6 different liveries on the 11 service at one point last week with the Beachball, Hybrid, Stagecoach local, Magic Bus, Stagecoach new livery and Bee network liveries all in evidence. There don’t seem to have been many repaints as part of Tranche 3.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

There were 6 different liveries on the 11 service at one point last week with the Beachball, Hybrid, Stagecoach local, Magic Bus, Stagecoach new livery and Bee network liveries all in evidence. There don’t seem to have been many repaints as part of Tranche 3.

I can't help but feel that vehicles that aren't being retained long term - which has to include all classic E400s (including hybrids) - aren't being repainted/refurbished. After all, with nearly 300 new vehicles due this year (58 for GNW, then the announced 220 to complete electrification of Oldham and Hyde Road), what's the point?

 

[mayneway]

I can't help but feel that vehicles that aren't being retained long term - which has to include all classic E400s (including hybrids) - aren't being repainted/refurbished. After all, with nearly 300 new vehicles due this year (58 for GNW, then the announced 220 to complete electrification of Oldham and Hyde Road), what's the point?

The B9’s have been knocking about in GNW colours now for 2 years, it would have made more sense to paint them given the amount of money spent on them for other reasons.
Likewise why mothball the E400 hybrids from Middleton that are in Bee network yellow when they could replace similar type vehicles in other colours.

I understand one of the big issues has and still is the fact buses have to be sent away for repaint and interior conversion rather than it being done in half the time ‘in house’.

 

[Leyland Bus]

The B9’s have been knocking about in GNW colours now for 2 years, it would have made more sense to paint them given the amount of money spent on them for other reasons.
Likewise why mothball the E400 hybrids from Middleton that are in Bee network yellow when they could replace similar type vehicles in other colours.

I understand one of the big issues has and still is the fact buses have to be sent away for repaint and interior conversion rather than it being done in half the time ‘in house’.

Well, that's the problem. TfGM are too rigid in how they want/expect things done, won't install the necessary toolage to do it their way so end up paying through the nose to do it outside at vastly more expense and time...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Feb 2026 ==

Well, that's the problem. TfGM are too rigid in how they want/expect things done, won't install the necessary toolage to do it their way so end up paying through the nose to do it outside at vastly more expense and time...

Those B9s were supposed to be done but for whatever reason, were not

 

[mayneway]

Well, that's the problem. TfGM are too rigid in how they want/expect things done, won't install the necessary toolage to do it their way so end up paying through the nose to do it outside at vastly more expense and time...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Feb 2026 ==


Those B9s were supposed to be done but for whatever reason, were not

Yeah it’s crazy. I remember a small repair being done on a bus and it was painted with canned spray paint and didn’t look bad at all. TFGM Insisted it wasn’t right and off it went for weeks to be repainted.

I remember you saying about the plans for the B9’s. I was told ‘some would be done’ while at Stagecoach but not sure why they were not. They had a fortune spent ‘tidying’ them up when it would have made more sense to just paint them.

 

[M60lad]

An odd one (or might not be) I found at weekend is Oldham Depot ex Oxford B5LH 13178 which for some reason is the only one of its kind at Oldham Depot that hasn't had the full Bee Network refurbishment, its been repainted but still carries its Oxford seating moquette and grey interior poles.

Before anyone says about the ones at Queens Road not being refurbished I know about these but I always thought all the ones at Oldham had been done but obviously this isn't the case.

 

[CN12 AWU]

Hello

Does Diamind only have 2 depots eg Eccles and Bolton or 3?

What routes operate from each depot
Noticed via bus times they have extensive network but looks abit much for 2 depots

Thanks in advance

 

[MCRTransitYT]

Hello

Does Diamind only have 2 depots eg Eccles and Bolton or 3?

What routes operate from each depot
Noticed via bus times they have extensive network but looks abit much for 2 depots

Thanks in advance

Bolton, Leigh, and Bury is Folds Road, Bolton operated.
South MCR eg 87, East Manchester like in Stockport, and the 126/132 are Eccles based

 

[CN12 AWU]

Bolton, Leigh, and Bury is Folds Road, Bolton operated.
South MCR eg 87, East Manchester like in Stockport, and the 126/132 are Eccles based

So it's only 126/132 at Eccles

Doesn't help on Bustimes isn't reliable for each vehicle like some operators are

Unless bus times is right depot wise

 

[MCRTransitYT]

So it's only 126/132 at Eccles

Doesn't help on Bustimes isn't reliable for each vehicle like some operators are

Unless bus times is right depot wise

Everything not in Bury, Bolton and Leigh (except 126 132) is Eccles

Be careful with the operator you use on bustimes when checking depots, as a lot of GNW Bolton routes show as "HEY" but as far as im aware, Diamond *should* be ok on there

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2026 ==

Speaking of GNW Bolton, does anybody know an exact date when the Nelson Street depot will open and the Heywood depot will close?