TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[mayneway]

Do operators have to pay rent for the use of TGFM owned buses? Or do get paid less per mile on TGFM owned buses?

No! However TFGM pay the operator if the operator uses their own vehicles. The figure varies depending on the age of the vehicle.

There are rules regarding the TFGM owned buses though. They cannot be used for commercial activities such as rail replacement work or non bee network work.

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I think Oldham needs more buses than Stockport at this momemt as there are some buses that are really old

The old buses that you refer to are owned by TFGM. They have invested money into buying and refurbishing them, in most cases, so they will want their monies worth, so will continue go be used for as long as possible until they become an issue.

 

[Class 466]

No! However TFGM pay the operator if the operator uses their own vehicles. The figure varies depending on the age of the vehicle.

Which is exactly why the TFGM owned 400MMCs are going from Middleton to Stockport!

In other news, non-bus 323239 has been rolled out in a Bee Network promotional livery.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Which is exactly why the TFGM owned 400MMCs are going from Middleton to Stockport!

In other news, non-bus 323239 has been rolled out in a Bee Network promotional livery.

And as if by magic!!

 

[mangad]

And as if by magic!!

That may be rather overselling what they're planning to do in 2026! But that's a whole different debate

 

[Leyland Bus]

That may be rather overselling what they're planning to do in 2026! But that's a whole different debate

Quite!!

 

[TheSmiths82]

It is a bit ironic that the train they have chosen to launch the livery with is now over 30 years old. That said I always liked the 323's for short to medium journeys.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2025 ==

No! However TFGM pay the operator if the operator uses their own vehicles. The figure varies depending on the age of the vehicle.

There are rules regarding the TFGM owned buses though. They cannot be used for commercial activities such as rail replacement work or non bee network work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2025 ==


The old buses that you refer to are owned by TFGM. They have invested money into buying and refurbishing them, in most cases, so they will want their monies worth, so will continue go be used for as long as possible until they become an issue.

In many ways then the Bee Network is a bit more nationalised than it would first appear then. There must be some incentive for bus companies to use their own buses though, for example if Metroline spent £300k on a new bus, they must know they will get a lot of that money back which will at least cover the depreciation and a good further margin for the duration of their franchise.

 

[JasonL]

It is a bit ironic that the train they have chosen to launch the livery with is now over 30 years old. That said I always liked the 323's for short to medium journeys.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2025 ==



In many ways then the Bee Network is a bit more nationalised than it would first appear then. There must be some incentive for bus companies to use their own buses though, for example if Metroline spent £300k on a new bus, they must know they will get a lot of that money back which will at least cover the depreciation and a good further margin for the duration of their franchise.

It's a bit funny as well as I've seen 323s operate the Manchester Airport to Blackpool North services recently which the 331s are supposed to do.

 

[Leyland Bus]

It's a bit funny as well as I've seen 323s operate the Manchester Airport to Blackpool North services recently which the 331s are supposed to do.

Drifting into a seperate topic but the 323s have been on there a fair while now, with some 331s going over the Pennines to run services in Yorkshire.

 

[mayneway]

It is a bit ironic that the train they have chosen to launch the livery with is now over 30 years old. That said I always liked the 323's for short to medium journeys.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2025 ==



In many ways then the Bee Network is a bit more nationalised than it would first appear then. There must be some incentive for bus companies to use their own buses though, for example if Metroline spent £300k on a new bus, they must know they will get a lot of that money back which will at least cover the depreciation and a good further margin for the duration of their franchise.

Depends which way you look at it!
Queens road gets penalised for allocating the wrong buses to the wrong boards (age limits etc) whereas Oldham depot gets away with it citing issues with the TFGM owned electric buses and chargers.

 

[M60lad]

What's the situation with the MMC200s at Stockport Depot? Are these owned by TfGM or Stagecoach only unless it was mistracking one of them recently was allocated to a duty on 358s.

Also can someone clear something up, its been said TfGM owned vehicles can't be used on Rail etc but I've actually seen Metroline Ultraliners and Diamond Ultraliners out on Rail/Metrolink Replacements in full Bee Netwok livey so is this allowed or not?

 

[Class 466]

What's the situation with the MMC200s at Stockport Depot? Are these owned by TfGM or Stagecoach only unless it was mistracking one of them recently was allocated to a duty on 358s.

The 4 (now 3) at Stockport are TFGM owned and ordered.

 

[Redmike]

The 200MMCs do appear on the 358 quite often at the weekend. I have also seen them on the 378/9 occasionally.

 

[mangad]

What's the situation with the MMC200s at Stockport Depot? Are these owned by TfGM or Stagecoach only unless it was mistracking one of them recently was allocated to a duty on 358s.

I was in New Mills on Saturday and there were two out. It wasn't uncommon pre Bee Network but is now.

 

[mayneway]

What's the situation with the MMC200s at Stockport Depot? Are these owned by TfGM or Stagecoach only unless it was mistracking one of them recently was allocated to a duty on 358s.

Also can someone clear something up, its been said TfGM owned vehicles can't be used on Rail etc but I've actually seen Metroline Ultraliners and Diamond Ultraliners out on Rail/Metrolink Replacements in full Bee Netwok livey so is this allowed or not?

Metroline have only done metrolink replacement not rail which given that it’s for TFGM/Bee Network is perfectly fine.

I believe the Diamond street decks are still owned by diamond.

 

[mattyharding]

Depends which way you look at it!
Queens road gets penalised for allocating the wrong buses to the wrong boards (age limits etc) whereas Oldham depot gets away with it citing issues with the TFGM owned electric buses and chargers.

And because Oldham constantly has a shortage of buses whilst some are getting refurbed like the 16 plate MMCs

 

[M60lad]

Apparently from start of service on Sunday Middleton Depot reopens for service which obviously is going to see a move round of vehicles over the weekend and considering the idea that Middleton is going to be another fully electric Depot I'm not to sure what's going to happen to the current fleet of E200s and Solo SRs that Middleton Depot currently operate.

Apparently a few Tyrers Drivers have been moving EVs from Tyrers Depot in Chorley to Middleton Depot ready for the reopening.

 

[mayneway]

And because Oldham constantly has a shortage of buses whilst some are getting refurbed like the 16 plate MMCs

Oldham doesn’t have a shortage of buses. Infact Oldham is better off than the other stagecoach depots because it has a dedicated school fleet that it’s using on regular services.
Oldham may look to be struggling but in reality it’s because on colder days the electric fleet take longer to charge and use more battery power than on warmer days.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2025 ==

Apparently from start of service on Sunday Middleton Depot reopens for service which obviously is going to see a move round of vehicles over the weekend and considering the idea that Middleton is going to be another fully electric Depot I'm not to sure what's going to happen to the current fleet of E200s and Solo SRs that Middleton Depot currently operate.

Apparently a few Tyrers Drivers have been moving EVs from Tyrers Depot in Chorley to Middleton Depot ready for the reopening.

The Solo SR’s are doing to Oldham and the E200’s will most probably be withdrawn.

There was actually an electric single decker BZL (I think) on the 171 on Thursday evening. I saw it at lime square early evening.

 

[Fox192]

What buses are Middleton getting

 

[toms]

What buses are Middleton getting

BZL SD, BZL DD and solos getting swapped with E100EV so I’ve heard

 

[mattyharding]

Oldham doesn’t have a shortage of buses. Infact Oldham is better off than the other stagecoach depots because it has a dedicated school fleet that it’s using on regular services.
Oldham may look to be struggling but in reality it’s because on colder days the electric fleet take longer to charge and use more battery power than on warmer days.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2025 ==


The Solo SR’s are doing to Oldham and the E200’s will most probably be withdrawn.

There was actually an electric single decker BZL (I think) on the 171 on Thursday evening. I saw it at lime square early evening.

That BZL might have been tracking as something else

 

[darylyates17]

When is 44904 going to move to Diamond is anything freed up at Middleton likely to replace it?

 

[MCRTransitYT]

When is 44904 going to move to Diamond is anything freed up at Middleton likely to replace it?

Well I've heard Oldham's E100EVs are going to Middleton in return for their Solo SRs (to make Middleton fully electric) so I'm not sure whats happening with 44904

 

[mayneway]

Well I've heard Oldham's E100EVs are going to Middleton in return for their Solo SRs (to make Middleton fully electric) so I'm not sure whats happening with 44904

The Solos are partly going to Oldham to work the 415/129 as it’s moving to Oldham. Assuming the electric singles won’t fit under the bridge.

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That BZL might have been tracking as something else

When I drove past it and saw it. Highly unlikely!

 

[mattyharding]

The Solos are partly going to Oldham to work the 415/129 as it’s moving to Oldham. Assuming the electric singles won’t fit under the bridge.

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When I drove past it and saw it. Highly unlikely!

Ah so they're probably already being rolled out

 

[mattyharding]

Oldham doesn’t have a shortage of buses. Infact Oldham is better off than the other stagecoach depots because it has a dedicated school fleet that it’s using on regular services.
Oldham may look to be struggling but in reality it’s because on colder days the electric fleet take longer to charge and use more battery power than on warmer days.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2025 ==


The Solo SR’s are doing to Oldham and the E200’s will most probably be withdrawn.

There was actually an electric single decker BZL (I think) on the 171 on Thursday evening. I saw it at lime square early evening.

It was actually an E100 EV

 

[M60lad]

I'm not having a go here but have all of Oldham's drivers been route learned recently on 129/415s? Especially 129 as while some of Oldham's drivers are well acquainted with 415 having operated it in the past Oldham drivers will never have been the other side of Middleton before, it will be interesting to see how both services (129/415) stand up tomorrow considering the new drivers that will be operating them.

Looking at what's been done recently I'm guessing spare drivers will be sent out with normal drivers to route learn them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2025 ==

Out of interest does compliance also relate to bus destinations when running Bee Network services only yesterday morning I spotted a one of Diamond's Strata's on 356 in Diggle running without blinds working and the usual Hymn number 356 on a piece of paper in the windscreen, I wish now I reported it on X (Twitter) but would have anything have been done about it?

 

[mangad]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2025 ==

Out of interest does compliance also relate to bus destinations when running Bee Network services only yesterday morning I spotted a one of Diamond's Strata's on 356 in Diggle running without blinds working and the usual Hymn number 356 on a piece of paper in the windscreen, I wish now I reported it on X (Twitter) but would have anything have been done about it?

Probably the same vehicle I saw earlier in the week on the 385.

 

[mattyharding]

What's going to happen to the B5LHs that are currently based at Oldham and QR now that Middleton is electric

 

[toms]

What's going to happen to the B5LHs that are currently based at Oldham and QR now that Middleton is electric

MMCs are going to Stockport

 

[mattyharding]

MMCs are going to Stockport apparently

I mean the Oxford and GNW B5s what will happen to them