Tesco Train - Why Diesel under the wires?

[Llandudno]

How many Tesco trains are there?

And where do they run to and from?

 

[matt]

How many Tesco trains are there?

And where do they run to and from?

Not sure the total but the majority run to/from DIRFT (Daventry International Railfreight Terminal) near Rugby

 

[Llandudno]

Not sure the total but the majority run to/from DIRFT (Daventry International Railfreight Terminal) near Rugby

I have seen the massive Tesco site near Daventry but where do the Tesco trains run to?

cheers!

 

[55002]

I have seen the massive Tesco site near Daventry but where do the Tesco trains run to?

cheers!

Mossend near Glasgow, South Dock near Middlesbrough amongst others.

 

[furnessvale]

Mossend near Glasgow, South Dock near Middlesbrough amongst others.

Plus Wentloog, South Wales and Purfleet, London.

Other Tesco based services operate in Scotland.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Off topic somewhat, but apart from the sleepers, do 92's haul any regular freight services?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Bit ironic that the containers have 'LESSCO2' in the style of 'TESCO' on their sides....

 

[robbeech]

Bit ironic that the containers have 'LESSCO2' in the style of 'TESCO' on their sides....

Perhaps, although it still is less CO2 than the equivalent journey by road.

 

[DBS92042]

Off topic somewhat, but apart from the sleepers, do 92's haul any regular freight services?

A few operate freight on HS1 and through the Channel Tunnel but there is no regular 92 hauled freight on the rest of the UK network at the moment

 

[Deepgreen]

Almost all electric locos in the UK seem to be Bo-Bos, whereas diesel freight locos tend to be Co-Cos, so the latter will have better tractive effort. That may be a pertinent factor where 2000+ tonne trains are required.

 

[edwin_m]

Almost all electric locos in the UK seem to be Bo-Bos, whereas diesel freight locos tend to be Co-Cos, so the latter will have better tractive effort. That may be a pertinent factor where 2000+ tonne trains are required.

For their length container trains aren't that heavy. A single Class 90 can handle one over Shap and Beattock with the aid of reasonably modern traction control systems, whereas the older 86s need to be in pairs (except for the one that was re-geared for 75mph). A 93 with modern AC motors should do even better. For bulk freight it might be a different matter, but at present there are approximately zero such flows that are wired end to end, so an electric Co-Co isn't really necessary.

 

[trainmania100]

Does Asda still have railfreight ? I remember there being intermodals in Asda branding, seems all Tesco now..

But I think one of the reasons they use diesel is because of no electric at terminals for convenience saving having to switch locos. I know Felixstowe uses an 08 or something to move wagons around when electrics bring the vehicles in.

 

[Freightmaster]

Does Asda still have railfreight ? I remember there being intermodals in Asda branding, seems all Tesco now..

The Aberdeen train still conveys Asda containers:

4A13

Class 68017 with a full load en route to Aberdeen Craiginches at Carmont

www.flickr.com

MARK

 

[Rail Ranger]

Does Asda still have railfreight ? I remember there being intermodals in Asda branding, seems all Tesco now..

But I think one of the reasons they use diesel is because of no electric at terminals for convenience saving having to switch locos. I know Felixstowe uses an 08 or something to move wagons around when electrics bring the vehicles in.

Fairly sure that Ipswich to Felixstowe is not electrified.

 

[dk1]

Fairly sure that Ipswich to Felixstowe is not electrified.

No wires beyond East Suffolk Junction.

 

[Grumpy Git]

The wires into the chemical works branch to the west of Runcorn station were actually removed some years ago, which really is a retrograde move if I ever saw one.

 

[jfollows]

No wires beyond East Suffolk Junction.

Absolutely, but the last time I saw the Trafford Park to Felixstowe train it had a pair of 86s on the front (it was pre-Covid!) because they change engines at Ipswich. So not having the branch electrified is an inconvenience but it doesn't prevent electrically-hauled freight trains from operating completely.

There's presumably an economic argument related to this too. In the 1970s passenger trains would change locomotives at Crewe on the Manchester-Cardiff route, for example, which just wouldn't happen today, just to ensure electric locomotives were used as much as possible over electrified sections. Likewise nothing used diesel engines on the leg between Birmingham and Manchester on cross-country services, and there were even some locomotive changes at Coventry for some services over the single line between Coventry and Leamington. This all changed to using diesel engines under the wires extensively before the stock changed over to multiple units.

 

[edwin_m]

Absolutely, but the last time I saw the Trafford Park to Felixstowe train it had a pair of 86s on the front (it was pre-Covid!) because they change engines at Ipswich. So not having the branch electrified is an inconvenience but it doesn't prevent electrically-hauled freight trains from operating completely.

There's presumably an economic argument related to this too. In the 1970s passenger trains would change locomotives at Crewe on the Manchester-Cardiff route, for example, which just wouldn't happen today, just to ensure electric locomotives were used as much as possible over electrified sections. Likewise nothing used diesel engines on the leg between Birmingham and Manchester on cross-country services, and there were even some locomotive changes at Coventry for some services over the single line between Coventry and Leamington. This all changed to using diesel engines under the wires extensively before the stock changed over to multiple units.

To be fair I think XC were still doing loco changes at New Street right up to the introduction of Voyagers, as their services on the WCML northwards were short Mk2 formations.

In the 1970s locomotives were more plentiful, as they were used on passenger trains too and were mostly treated as "common user". Along with perpetuation of traditional practices, this probably explains why they were swapped for relatively short runs under the wires. These days there's less freight anyway, and it's divided between multiple operators, so to make a loco change a FOC has to have one of its own locos available at the right time and place to do a swap, or come to some complicated hire deal with a competitor. Some of them are small enough that if they had electrics, there'd be a significant risk of not finding another use for them if they lost the contracts for the few services that were suitable for them. The chances of all this aligning to allow a loco change en route are pretty low.

Another potential factor, though probably more impeding future use of electrics rather than reducing their use now, is the re-routeing of freight off the busiest main lines. Some trains between Felixstowe and the Midlands and North West now run via Ely instead of the electrified route through north London, and much of the freight between Peterborough and Doncaster now uses the non-electrified line through Lincoln.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Things have gone backwards in east London too, as access to the new terminal at Tilbury is not (yet?) electrified like the old one.
Nevertheless, you do see 90/92/88 freight haulage on the WCML, including to Daventry, Trafford Park, Ditton and Mossend.
You might even see the incongruous sight of a short nuclear flask train with 2x88 on the front.
But you might see electric haulage one day and diesel the next.

 

[dave59]

They're at it again today DB FL and DRS using diesels on Daventry Mossend and London Gateway-Coatbridge. Those promoting additional electrification to government are seriously undermined by the actions of these companies

 

[zwk500]

I know Felixstowe uses an 08 or something to move wagons around when electrics bring the vehicles in.

Electrics won't be getting very far beyond Ipswich. Felixstowe uses an 08 to shunt and marshal the wagons as required for their next workings (e.g. if a set needs to be removed for attention). Not sure how Trafford Park manages Electric-hauled but Lawley Street use the goods loop outside the yard to get the Electric on the north end and push the train back into the terminal.

 

[The Planner]

Electrics won't be getting very far beyond Ipswich. Felixstowe uses an 08 to shunt and marshal the wagons as required for their next workings (e.g. if a set needs to be removed for attention). Not sure how Trafford Park manages Electric-hauled but Lawley Street use the goods loop outside the yard to get the Electric on the north end and push the train back into the terminal.

Lawley St? Errr....

 

[zwk500]

Lawley St? Errr....

Good point! It does put the loco on the north end but obviously not electric ones! Oops