Terminology request

[BobCH]

Hello. Wonder if anyone can help me. I’m translating a railway text into English and have problems with two terms. Have spent two days going round in circles on Internet and am not happy with any of the results.

First term is for a kind of spiral tunnel to gain altitude where the train moves through an arc of maximum 270 degrees and leaves the tunnel travelling in the opposite direction from that on entry.

Other term is for a viaduct that runs fairly flat along the face of a mountain slope to avoid cutting into the hillside.

Would be very grateful for any suggestions and wish everyone a happy Easter. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[dvboy]

I can't think of any example of the kind of tunnel mentioned in the UK, so there probably isn't a specific term for it in English, in use in the UK at least.

Can't think of the second but it's definitely not a viaduct.

 

[RozzaDownunder]

G'day from Downunder,


With regards to the Spiral loop tunnel, in NSW, Australia, there are two of these tunnels, one at "Cougal" and one at "Bethungra".They are simply referred to as the "Cougal Spiral" and "Bethungra Spiral" respectively.

Bethungra spiral is actually a series of cuttings and tunnels arranged in a spiral formation, whereas Cougal spiral is a cutting which descends into a tunnel over itself.

As can be expected, one of them has acquired a colloquial name, Cougal Spiral is often referred to as "Border Loop", in that it occurs just inside the NSW/Queensland Border.


Hope this helps.


Sincerely,


Roy.

 

[Welshman]

Hello. Wonder if anyone can help me. I’m translating a railway text into English and have problems with two terms. Have spent two days going round in circles on Internet and am not happy with any of the results.

First term is for a kind of spiral tunnel to gain altitude where the train moves through an arc of maximum 270 degrees and leaves the tunnel travelling in the opposite direction from that on entry.

Other term is for a viaduct that runs fairly flat along the face of a mountain slope to avoid cutting into the hillside.

Would be very grateful for any suggestions and wish everyone a happy Easter. Thanks in advance for your help.

And a very happy Easter to you, also.

A possible synonym for your first feature could be a "corkscrew" and for the second, possibly a "terrace"

 

[asylumxl]

Could also be worth posting which language it is and possibly even the words as there may well be someone on the forum who will know.

 

[David Barrett]

I have seen the term "Retaining Arch" used to describe the structure supporting the Railway along the side of a slope.

 

[30907]

I wonder if the username gives us a clue as to the original language?

I think "spiral tunnel" is accurate enough - it is the term consistently used by (e.g) CJ Allen in his classic "Switzerland, its railways..." even though not all are true spiral locations and none of them complete 360 degrees in tunnel.

For the second term, I don't think there's a direct English term for what the OP is describing - they are common in mainland Europe but I can't think of any examples in the UK.
I think "arched retaining wall" or "arched embankment" is understandable but not quite correct. "Terrace" suggests a solid wall supporting earth, like the stone embankments on the Festiniog. I'm sure I've seen "side-viaduct" in a book but when I read it the meaning wasn't obvious and it didn't "sound right."
Best I can come up with is "half-viaduct."

PS David Barrett's suggestion of "retaining arch"(es) is good too.

 

[David Barrett]

I wonder if the username gives us a clue as to the original language?



For the second term, I don't think there's a direct English term for what the OP is describing - they are common in mainland Europe but I can't think of any examples in the UK.

There are a few, Chalford approximately half way between Stroud and Kemble on the Swindon to Gloucester Line springs to mind.

 

[snowball]

The Ffestiniog railway loops and passes over itself to gain height, but isn't in a tunnel. I think it's called the Dduallt spiral or Dduallt loop.

 

[themiller]

The Loetchberg was originally single track on the north and south ramps. When it needed to be doubled on the south ramp, the existing trackbed was between the rock face and a steep slope. The railway ran the additional track away from the rock wall by cantilevering the second formation out over fresh air supported by concrete pillars. This gives one of the scenarios described.
There are several places in Switzerland where tunnels turn more than 180degrees e.g. around Wassen on SBB, Andermat on RhB, and around Blausee Mitholz on BLS. I believe that they are just referred to as spiral or helical tunnels in english.

 

[snowball]

Here's a Google Streetview view of a half-viaduct near Colwyn Bay carrying the A547 road, half over the edge of a quarry, seen from the A55.

This structure probably dates from when the road now known as A547, being then the A55 trunk road, was widened. Later it was bypassed by the present A55.

However I'm not sure whether this is what the OP was asking about. That may just have been a low viaduct on sidelong ground.

 

[BobCH]

Many thanks to everyone who has replied to my question. All the comments on the tunnel were very helpful. Below is a link to an illustration of what I was talking about. Scroll down to the last series of plans. Under the Wassener-Anlagen there are two examples of what I need: the Leggistein-Kehrtunnel and the Wattinger-Kehrtunnel, where the train comes out going in the opposite direction from how it went in. Unlike the Pfaffensprung, where it turns full circle and carries on in same direction on exit.
http://www.oberegger2.org/enzyklopaedie/gotthard.htm
I think my description of the viaduct was poor. Sorry. It’s not cantilevered; it’s a free-standing viaduct running parallel to the slope. Can’t find a decent photo of a railway version but if you look at
http://www.karl-gotsch.de/Album/CH_AB.htm
And scroll down to “Obere Hangbrücke in der Piottinoschlucht” there’s a good shot of one carrying a motorway.
I didn’t post the expressions in the source language as we’d already tried that with a local rail forum and the folk just fed the terms into Google and came out with a lot of misleading material I’d already gone through myself. There’s definitely good stuff out there but it’s like panning for gold.
Thanks again to you all and if you have any other ideas, I’d be grateful. Cheers BobCH

 

[30907]

Thanks for the clarification:

1. Kehrtunnel. I don't think there would be any confusion using "spiral tunnel" as a translation - if German uses the same word for a variety of situations (180deg upto 360deg), I think it's adequate in English.

2. Hangviadukt. The motorway example you link to is simply a "viaduct" in English use - you could say "a viaduct on the mountainside" for clarity. What I thought you had in mind was something like the Puenderich Hangviadukt in the Moseltal http://www.panoramio.com/photo/61166940.

 

[BobCH]

Thanks 30907. Seems to be various opinions in German about different tunnels. My client has "Spiraltunnel" which does a full 360 and carries on in same direction ("spiral tunnel" seems logical here - after hours of reading Google hits "helical tunnel" appears dubious) and "Kehrtunnel" which does max. 270 as described in my original post and comes out in opposite direction. So that's why I needed a different word. Had already done exactly what you suggest for the viaduct. Many thanks. BobCH

 

[snowball]

If your audience consisted of mathematicians, they would consider "helical" preferable to "spiral", but "spiral" might be more readily recognised among most railway people.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Is the purpose of the Kehrtunnel in question to gain height? Or is it used just to describe a tunnel which isn't straight. That might influence your decision on translation if it's for an individual tunnel. Is it the Gotthard ones from your earlier link?
And I'd agree with snowball on helical versus spiral. Helical for mathematicians and smarta*** on QI, spiral for the rest of us.
No harm in a wordy explanation (e.g. "spiral tunnel to gain height", "curved tunnel") rather than a one- or two-word translation depending on the context.
If I was explaining the Gotthard situation, I might say "the line uses spiral and curved tunnels to gain height as it passes through the valley" and then go on to mention that the direction of travel changes 180°.
Explain it and don't get hung up two German terms - after all a Spiraltunnel is only a Kehrtunnel that kept going. The ever-reliable German Wikipedia has and entry for "Wendetunnel (Kehr- und Spiraltunnel)" under Eisenbahntunnel

 

[BobCH]

Sorry didn't see latest posts. My principal has decided in his wisdom that
Spiraltunnel = spiral tunnel
Kehrtunnel = helical tunnel
I understand Snowball and eastwestdivide (thank you both very much for your efforts) to be saying that spiral tunnel and helical tunnel are the same thing. Which seems obvious to me simply from the meaning of the words.
eastwestdivide is quite right about the sensible way of expressing the German terms but unfortunately I have to have two different terms for these tunnels (managed to get away with the viaduct expression).
Have put a lot of un-cost-effective work into trying to solve the problem and this is my last fling before defaulting to "the customer is always right". Am attachng a GIF-File showing principal's final version.
Does it make sense like this (it doesn't for me). I suggested - given the diagram and the logic of the word - "loop tunnel" even if the term does not exist (research and all the comments here on the forum lead me to infer that there just isn't an appropriate short term).After all what's schadenfreude?
Any help appreciated. Thanks a million.

 

[snowball]

To me, both the terms "helical" or "spiral" would suggest something like diagram 2. I don't know a specific term for diagram 1.

However I don't have an extensive railway background.

[I'll just comment on mathematical terminology, though this may not be relevant in practice. To a mathematician, "spiral" usually means a flat curve that winds inwards (or outwards), whereas "helix" means a 3D curve like a screw thread or a coiled spring. In everyday parlance, "spiral" could cover either a 2D or a 3D curve. "Helix" has become better known to the general public in recent decades because of the DNA double helix.]

 

[asylumxl]

I'd say directly translated one is a hillside viaduct and the other a loop tunnel.

Googling loop tunnel does seem to bring up similar structures in Japan and America. In fact, looking through several pages about helix tunnels and spiral tunnels, I saw many describe them as loops...

 

[snowball]

I'd say directly translated one is a hillside viaduct and the other a loop tunnel.

Googling loop tunnel does seem to bring up similar structures in Japan and America. In fact, looking through several pages about helix tunnels and spiral tunnels, I saw many describe them as loops...

Have you looked at his diagrams in post #17? One of them is different from anything discussed previously in the thread.

 

[asylumxl]

Have you looked at his diagrams in post #17? One of them is different from anything discussed previously in the thread.

Yes but America has several of these and they seem to have no issue calling them loops/loop tunnels.