Temporary timetable during Wigan-Bolton electrification

[pokemonsuper9]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ation-construction-updates-only-please.224276

Extra station calls by trains will be added for Daisy Hill during the works

How do they plan to do that then?

The Atherton line already has half-hourly service each way which all already stop at Daisy Hill (and losing that perfect half hourly would not be nice)
Although I definitely wouldn't object to the line getting more trains.

 

[WibbleWobble]

How do they plan to do that then?
The Atherton line already has half-hourly service each way which all already stop at Daisy Hill (and losing that perfect half hourly would not be nice)
Although I definitely wouldn't object to the line getting more trains.

Also is there any idea if a Temporary Speed Restriction will be in place past Hindey, what's it like for other similar work sites in the past?

It did go to 3 per hour before Covid as part of Arriva's franchise commitments (which I think could have seen as much as 4 per hour), but was reduced back down to the current 2 per hour + peak fast extras.

The only stations which hasn't really suffered are Hindley and Hag Fold (of all places), in that the semi-fast (Leeds-Wigan) calls at both on most journeys, so that Hag Fold station retains the 2ph it gained as part of the uplift and Hindley has I think 4ph - it never used to call at Hindley due to the spacing between a via Atherton service and a via Bolton service which has since been improved.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Hindley has I think 4ph

Indeed it does, 2tph via Bolton, 2tph via Atherton, until December timetable change the "fast" via Atherton (Which was WGN - LDS) used to skip it.

Hag Fold (of all places),

I think it's good that Hag Fold has more services, not much reason not to, I think it's good for more places to have more service, Moorside is the only station that doens't have half hourly service on Atherton's branch.

It did go to 3 per hour before Covid as part of Arriva's franchise commitments (which I think could have seen as much as 4 per hour), but was reduced back down to the current 2 per hour + peak fast extras.

I'll try to find an old timetable to check that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Mar 2023 ==

It did go to 3 per hour before Covid as part of Arriva's franchise commitments (which I think could have seen as much as 4 per hour),

Indeed there was, and they still only stopped 1 per hour at Hag Fold and Moorside? That mustn't have been nice for the people living there.

 

[WibbleWobble]

I think it's good that Hag Fold has more services, not much reason not to, I think it's good for more places to have more service, Moorside is the only station that doens't have half hourly service on Atherton's branch.

Part of the problem with Moorside is it has a very frequent bus service running from outside the front door - 1 train per hour compared with the up to 15 buses per hour into Manchester (3 x 12 minute services) which was up to 18 buses per hour prior to Covid.

I would imagine the current £2 single fare has made the train even less competitive.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Part of the problem with Moorside is it has a very frequent bus service running from outside the front door - 1 train per hour compared with the up to 15 buses per hour into Manchester (3 x 12 minute services) which was up to 18 buses per hour prior to Covid.

Ah that would definitely lower numbers.

I would imagine the current £2 single fare has made the train even less competitive.

I mean I wouldn't be opposed to a decrease in train fares, but today's changes clearly disagree with that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Mar 2023 ==

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43:30 - Northern's Representative: "We are inserting additional calls in trains that would normally not call at Daisy Hill, so Daisy Hill will see a more frequent service"
Well that's quite impossible, no trains skip Daisy Hill, so there's definitely a mixed message there (unless they're gonna divert a different service (the only diesel I can think of is the Windermere/Barrow ones but that'd be bizarre to send via Atherton instead of Bolton/Chat Moss)

 

[scrapy]

The Atherton line already has half-hourly service each way which all already stop at Daisy Hill (and losing that perfect half hourly would not be nice)
Although I definitely wouldn't object to the line getting more trains.

There are some late evening services Monday to Thursday that would normally run via Bolton are diverted via Atherton line . These would usually call at Westhoughton but have additional calls at Daisy Hill instead.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There are some late evening services Monday to Thursday that would normally run via Bolton are diverted via Atherton line . These would usually call at Westhoughton but have additional calls at Daisy Hill instead.

So all they're doing is removing connections at Westhoughton, and adding them at Daisy Hill?
Also where's the timetable for that, I can't seem to see anything of the sort on RTT.

 

[scrapy]

On mainly evenings (and some full days) where the line via Westhoughton is closed they have no choice but to run trains via Daisy Hill (there will also be days/nights where both lines are shut and trains will run via Chat Moss too). Westhoughton will have replacement buses, but all Northern are saying is that trains that get diverted that would not usually call at Daisy Hill will do so. This means those who live in between the 2 have the option of train to Daisy Hill or replacement bus to Westhoughton. Normally diversions would run non stop Salford Crescent to Hindley.

This is over selected dates over the next 2 years or so. Real time trains usually only show engineering alterations up to 12 weeks or so in advance.

 

[standish1]

Line blocked at Hindley to replace the bridge 24th June till 30th June. Usual bus services and diversions via Chat Moss. Hindley Station should reopen 24th July

 

[NorthWestRover]

Significantly reduced train service

 

[stan claire]

Normally diversions would run non stop Salford Crescent to Hindley.

So does this mean in these diversions with the "additional call" the service will run Hindley - Daisy Hill - Salford Crescent or will they stop at other more used stations on the line such as Walkden?
I know that when the line via Atherton was shut for a weekend the Kirkby - Atherton - Manchester - Blackburn service was diverted to call at Bolton but not at Westhoughton - services showed on RTT as stopping there towards Blackburn but not towards Kirkby, and none of the boards at WHG showed any information about the additional services.

What I think will happen while the line is closed will be as follows:
The Southport - Oxford Road service being diverted to run via Walkden but only calling at Daisy Hill
The Southport - Stalybridge service will be started at Bolton instead of Southport
Alternatively, the Stalybridge service could also be diverted via Walkden and have Rochdale - Clitheroe/Blackburn services calling at the intermediate stations between Salford and Bolton (excluding Clifton as it's a parliamentary stop)

Whatever does happen, I do hope that they end up running 769s on the via DSY services, however seeing as it's only AC between Salford and Vic they're more likely to do the Bolton shuttle option with them.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Looks like (looking at RTT for Monday)
Southport -> Stalybridge
Leaves Hindley xx:12
Arrives Salford Crescent xx:43 (31 mins)
Southport -> Oxford Road
Leaves Hindley xx:44
Arrives Salford Crescent xx:09 (25 mins)
Rainford -> Blackburn
Leaves Hindley xx:25
Arrives Salford Crescent xx:55 (30 minutes)

Surely it's easier to just have the trains stop on the Atherton line (except Moorside) and keep to their original times either side?
Both routes take about the same amount of time, although the fast train might have to skip a few extra stops.
Also them being sent via Atherton might annoy the freight train that comes through in the afternoon.

 

[stan claire]

I know the Southport to Oxford Road service is usually quicker as it runs fast between Bolton and Salford but it seems like the times will be pretty unaffected, just with 5 minutes less layover at each end