Temporary Timetable 13th Dec - 7th Jan

[Starmill]

Yes they were specifically told that the planning was being done.

Oh dear. Oops!

 

[Bald Rick]

Is this a hint that there's a deeper plan in play here given this form of action generally isn't notifiable (for example, announcing the overtime ban, then announcing cancellation, then undertaking one anyway)? Or more just general frustration and exhaustion at long hours and very tough circumstances?

Sorry, not sure what you mean - long day!

 

[Starmill]

Sorry, not sure what you mean - long day!

No worries, I'll just take it as an expression of frustration at the uniquely challenging elements of work at the moment and leave it at that! For this you certainly have my sympathy.

 

[JonathanH]

Yes they were specifically told that the planning was being done.

Is it perhaps feasible that the RMT didn't appreciate the enormity of what an overtime ban for the Christmas period meant in terms of disruption?

 

[Starmill]

Is it perhaps feasible that the RMT didn't appreciate the enormity of what an overtime ban for the Christmas period meant in terms of disruption?

This is definitely what I was thinking of when I was asking the question. But it would appear Bald Rick has already given their answer here.

 

[The Middle]

Basically, all the planning for this overtime / rest day ban period has just gone in the bin, back to square one. Thanks RMT!

Just par for the course now though isn't it following the last two rollbacks, admittedly one caused by the death of the queen.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Basically, all the planning for this overtime / rest day ban period has just gone in the bin, back to square one. Thanks RMT!

One of the reasons that as a planner in the late 70's, and still an active NUR member due to my previous signalling career, I soon found myself at odds with the two main unions at that time. Some on here will remember the strikes and work to rules (ASLEF included) of those times, but basically those of us in planning found ourselves on a no win merry go round of very short term emergency planning scenarios, often then being cancelled. Again, the back room work situation in these trying times is regretably not always appreciated......sorry, slight winge....

 

[Bald Rick]

Is it perhaps feasible that the RMT didn't appreciate the enormity of what an overtime ban for the Christmas period meant in terms of disruption?

Oh they knew alright.

 

[Mathew S]

One of the reasons that as a planner in the late 70's, and still an active NUR member due to my previous signalling career, I soon found myself at odds with the two main unions at that time. Some on here will remember the strikes and work to rules (ASLEF included) of those times, but basically those of us in planning found ourselves on a no win merry go round of very short term emergency planning scenarios, often then being cancelled. Again, the back room work situation in these trying times is regretably not always appreciated......sorry, slight winge....

Nothing to apologise for. I had the pleasure of a tour of a planning department at NR in Milton Keynes a few years ago. The complexity of the task is boggling; I don't think anyone who has seen it first hand would begrudge those involved more than a little frustration.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

One of the reasons that as a planner in the late 70's, and still an active NUR member due to my previous signalling career, I soon found myself at odds with the two main unions at that time. Some on here will remember the strikes and work to rules (ASLEF included) of those times, but basically those of us in planning found ourselves on a no win merry go round of very short term emergency planning scenarios, often then being cancelled. Again, the back room work situation in these trying times is regretably not always appreciated......sorry, slight winge....

The back room planning teams across the industry have been flat out for months and i do hope the industries senior leaders have acknowledge their efforts to keep some reasonable level of services running during this.

 

[Bald Rick]

The back room planning teams across the industry have been flat out for months

2 years, 9 months and counting.

i do hope the industries senior leaders have acknowledge their efforts to keep some reasonable level of services running during this.

Yes they have, and very specifically so. Although there’s only so many times you can say it / hear it before it loses its power.

 

[Bikeman78]

Oh, believe me, there is. The £27bn roads budget sails on, miraculously uncut. There is infinite money for Ukraine - not that I'm saying this is a bad thing, but nonetheless it's there. And there will be a magical tax giveaway for selected swing voters in next year's budget "thanks to our prudent stewardship of the economy" or some such guff.

We are a rich, low-tax country with ample opportunity to raise revenue. When people say "there is no magic money tree", they mean "spending should be on things that benefit me, not you".

Is that for building new roads or does it include the maintenance of the existing network? I wouldn't bother building any new roads. It just moves the traffic jam to the next pinch point. The short new dual carriageway in Cardiff Bay is a good example. The traffic on Rover way is far worse now.

 

[infobleep]

As I've said before, I'm surprised the mainstream media haven't noticed it.

I have certainly been informing some friends. I think I even pointed from of them here.

 

[Horizon22]

Just par for the course now though isn't it following the last two rollbacks, admittedly one caused by the death of the queen.

Still I feel sorry for planners who already in the past few years have been constantly left in the lurch by Covid and timetable replanning and now strikes, much of which is short-notice. And when it’s too short for even planning, then controllers have to step in with mixed results.

I imagine many planners are shattered, as indeed is quite a bit of the industry.

 

[yorksrob]

The pandemic has been over for over a year. We could have had stable timetables by now were it not for the DfT/Treasury playing games.

 

[zwk500]

The pandemic has been over for over a year. We could have had stable timetables by now were it not for the DfT/Treasury playing games.

There's a lot of backlog that built up over 1.5-2 years that can't be got rid of quickly. And it's not like people have stopped getting ill.

 

[43066]

And it's not like people have stopped getting ill.

Not that many ever really started getting ill(!) But that’s probably off topic…

 

[Starmill]

There's a lot of backlog that built up over 1.5-2 years that can't be got rid of quickly. And it's not like people have stopped getting ill.

I don't think anyone is saying there wouldn't be challenges, but if there were an agreement on rest day work and the pay claims weren't outstanding I think everyone can agree we would have made more progress.

Of course that's the government's main leverage so they are unlikely to give it up.

 

[zwk500]

Not that many ever really started getting ill(!) But that’s probably off topic…

It doesn't need many people to be ill to start causing disruption. I'll leave discussion of severity to another time

I don't think anyone is saying there wouldn't be challenges, but if there were an agreement on rest day work and the pay claims weren't outstanding I think everyone can agree we would have made more progress.

True, but I also think that even if there was no industrial dispute, the training backlog would still be a problem, even if less severe than now. Also the general staffing numbers would only be partially helped by proper pay settlements and the like.

 

[43066]

It doesn't need many people to be ill to start causing disruption. I'll leave discussion of severity to another time

True. And of course many people were forced to take time off work by pings/ +ve Covid tests who were perfectly fit to work, and in many cases totally asymptomatic.

I’m not disputing disruption caused was huge, albeit more by the measures than the disease, and the effects are indeed still being felt.

 

[Parjon]

Quiet quitting (as much as one can in these sorts of jobs) may also be going on. It's mentally difficult to keep trying to care about doing your best if everything else around you is falling apart. The whole thing seems to need a reboot, but is never able to catch an opportunity to do so.

Perhaps something for the unions to consider, re their role in the system falling apart. "Staff well-being" is made up of more than just the £ in your pocket.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The pandemic has been over for over a year. We could have had stable timetables by now were it not for the DfT/Treasury playing games.

No. The understanding I have is that there was always an over reliance on overtime with drivers. Then Covid stopped training. Two to three years worth of retirements have happened. If its like what I see in other industries then some drivers also left for other reasons - I mean took early retirement (had noticed an easier life or to avoid future chances of infection), retired having worked beyond retirement age or (like me) have a relative with long Covid to look after and shield a bit.

Now the lever the unions have is withdrawing from Rest Day Working which is not an actual strike.

I don't think anyone is saying there wouldn't be challenges, but if there were an agreement on rest day work and the pay claims weren't outstanding I think everyone can agree we would have made more progress.

Of course that's the government's main leverage so they are unlikely to give it up.

True. And, your right, the government must logically be looking for efficiencies.

True. And of course many people were forced to take time off work by pings/ +ve Covid tests who were perfectly fit to work, and in many cases totally asymptomatic.

I’m not disputing disruption caused was huge, albeit more by the measures than the disease, and the effects are indeed still being felt.

Asymptomatic but the fear was of course, with them actually being positive, that they were spreading Covid. So a lot of spreaders might easily have been invisible.

Quiet quitting (as much as one can in these sorts of jobs) may also be going on. It's mentally difficult to keep trying to care about doing your best if everything else around you is falling apart. The whole thing seems to need a reboot, but is never able to catch an opportunity to do so.

Perhaps something for the unions to consider, re their role in the system falling apart. "Staff well-being" is made up of more than just the £ in your pocket.

Morale must be low but also I was happy to leave the insane world of work behind. Brexit and Covid were making life hell. I will probably go back to an easier job when I get bored and my better half is a bit better or I can manage better (need to get out more !).

All at risk of being off topic.

I have noticed more on the BBC news this morning but not mentioning a blanket 12 hour day for weeks on end. I found myself expecting that to get mentioned looking at the dates the BBC were reporting. They did go into explaining more than I expected about causes and effects. Including flagging up the lost opportunity for engineering works over the Christmas break. That's going to cause disruption later in the year(s).

 

[Bald Rick]

The pandemic has been over for over a year.

It hasn’t. You might remember the Omicron variant, and the Governement advice re same last December / January etc.

 

[Mag_seven]

We will bring this one to a close now as its now uncertain as to whether such a temporary TT as described in the OP will come to pass given the RMT overtime ban has been called off.

There will of course be strike timetables and if anyone has any queries on these then they are welcome to start a new thread in the Trip Planning and Reports section.