Temporary Speed Restrictions

[Zoe]

What is the official proceadure if the T board is missing at the end of a TSR? I've twice been on trains where we've entered a 20 mph TSR and there has been no T board at the end, in one case it had been twisted round so the T was not visible. Both cases resulted in us going 20 mph for some distance and a delay to the journey.

 

[Bill EWS]

Missing or out of place warning and speed boards should always be reported, at the nearest signalbox or stop. That includes unlit lamps. There is also an incident report that should be filled in at the end of your shift. If an accident ocurred later and a driver hadn't reported it they would leave themselves open to being disaplined also.

 

[Ghostdriver]

What is the official proceadure if the T board is missing at the end of a TSR? I've twice been on trains where we've entered a 20 mph TSR and there has been no T board at the end, in one case it had been twisted round so the T was not visible. Both cases resulted in us going 20 mph for some distance and a delay to the journey.

The location of the tsr will be published in the won's or late notice case. If your route knowledge is as it should be then a missing T board shouldn't be a big issue.

 

[driver9000]

Route knowledge doesn't come into it. The Rulebook contains the specific instruction that missing or incorrect signage for TSR/ESRs is reported immediately, stopping specially if neccessary. I know my route's very well but can't measure them to the nearest chain, and as the WON gives the length in miles and chains the risk of speeding is still there.

 

[TDK]

Route knowledge doesn't come into it. The Rulebook contains the specific instruction that missing or incorrect signage for TSR/ESRs is reported immediately, stopping specially if neccessary. I know my route's very well but can't measure them to the nearest chain, and as the WON gives the length in miles and chains the risk of speeding is still there.

If there is no "T" board for an ESR the driver must maintain the speed for 1 1/4 miles and report the missing "T" board immediatelly to the signaller

 

[driver9000]

If there is no "T" board for an ESR the driver must maintain the speed for 1 1/4 miles and report the missing "T" board immediatelly to the signaller

I was never taught that when I went through the driving school. I was taught to stop immediately, and I can't find any reference to travelling 1 1/4 miles at the speed posted in the rulebook or sectional appendix.

How can a train be permitted to travel 1 1/4 mile and report immediately?

 

[TDK]

I was never taught that when I went through the driving school. I was taught to stop immediately, and I can't find any reference to travelling 1 1/4 miles at the speed posted in the rulebook or sectional appendix.

How can a train be permitted to travel 1 1/4 mile and report immediately?

It is in the rule book, the reason why is if there is an ESR over 1 1/4 miles every train needs to be stopped by the signaller and informed. How long will do 20mph for before stopping?????? It is 1 1/4 miles if there is not "T" board then you stop. See the thing is you are reporting it immediately in a way as you do not know how long the ESR is for, if it is a mile and you stop say after 3/4 mile to report you will be causing unessesary delays.

TSR's are different as in your notices are the mileage so of course once you read your notices you will know how long the TSR is meant to be. In may last post it was not clear,contact the signaller immediately after 1 1/4 miles.

 

[455driver]

Could somebody explain how an ESR will be in the notices?
By its very nature it wont be in the notices as it is an EMERGENCY speed restriction, once it is advertised (in the WON) it is no longer an emergency speed restriction and the first magnet and the dalek will be removed turning it into a TSR!

 

[Railsigns]

It is in the rule book, the reason why is if there is an ESR over 1 1/4 miles every train needs to be stopped by the signaller and informed.

I believe that requirement was removed from the Rule Book two years ago.

 

[driver9000]

I believe that requirement was removed from the Rule Book two years ago.

TDK - I understand your post now, got myself muddled up.

Railsigns - My current copy of SP dated June 2008 doesn't contain the mile/quarter rule, so I think you're right with the date.

 

[O L Leigh]

Interestingly, my edition of Module SP requires that drivers "must tell the signaller immediately, if necessary stopping the train specially, if you see (and you have not already been informed) that a warning board, a repeating warning board or a speed indicator is:

• missing, or

• in a different place from the one published in the Weekly Operating Notice, or
• is more restrictive than that shown in the Weekly Operating Notice." (para 7.1)​

You will notice that it makes no reference at all to missing or otherwise misplaced termination indicator boards ("T" boards). This section also applies to ESR's, as the relevant paragraph refers traincrew back to this instruction (para 11). So presumably missing "T" boards are not required to be reported.​

O L Leigh​

 

[Old Timer]

Don't shoot the messenger, here.

Warning, repeater, and C boards are considered to be safety critical items that require specific rules to be applied.

The T board is considered to be a performance issue as, the Driver will already be travelling at reduced speed, and he should be aware of the extent of the restriction from the WON / Late Notice Case.

A missing T board does not iof itself require immediate action whereas the others do.

Noyt my logic or thinking, personally I think it should be but the approach to the rule book these days is definitely performance based.

 

[TDK]

Don't shoot the messenger, here.

Warning, repeater, and C boards are considered to be safety critical items that require specific rules to be applied.

The T board is considered to be a performance issue as, the Driver will already be travelling at reduced speed, and he should be aware of the extent of the restriction from the WON / Late Notice Case.

A missing T board does not iof itself require immediate action whereas the others do.

Noyt my logic or thinking, personally I think it should be but the approach to the rule book these days is definitely performance based.

So old timer, a scenario, an ESR is implimented at 10.00, you book on at 08.00, you will not see it in the LNC. You come to the ESR at say 20mph and there isn't a "T" board, how far do you travel before resuming line speed? I still think the 1 1/4mile rule is in force myself, I may be wrong, I will check my rule book tonight, this is of course only for an ESR. I also remember if an ESR is longer than 1 1.4miles the signaller has to stop every train to inform them of the mileage of the ESR.

If someone know different let me know!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Interestingly, my edition of Module SP requires that drivers "must tell the signaller immediately, if necessary stopping the train specially, if you see (and you have not already been informed) that a warning board, a repeating warning board or a speed indicator is:

• missing, or

• in a different place from the one published in the Weekly Operating Notice, or
• is more restrictive than that shown in the Weekly Operating Notice." (para 7.1)​

You will notice that it makes no reference at all to missing or otherwise misplaced termination indicator boards ("T" boards). This section also applies to ESR's, as the relevant paragraph refers traincrew back to this instruction (para 11). So presumably missing "T" boards are not required to be reported.​

O L Leigh​

That is correct for ESR/TSR advanced indicators, warning boards and commencement boards but what about "T" boards! Before anyone jumps down my throat I KNOW that a TSR is totally different from an ESR where there isn't an advanced warning board, only one magnet and it is published in your notices! The ESR is what I am ranting on abaout.

I have checked my rule book and this is what it says!

Signaller:

When the equipment has been put in place, you must continue to
tell drivers who will travel over the affected line until you are told
that all drivers passing over the affected route are being informed
by a special advice or notice if the restriction is:
• a speed lower than 20 mph, or
• longer than 2 km (1 miles).

It has been reduced to 1 mile, so,if you haven't been informed and have covered 1 mile and the signaller has not informed you that the restriction is longer than a mile the "T" board must be missing, I think this may now clear this issue up!

 

[causton]

• longer than 2 km (1 miles).

2 kilometers = 1.24274238 miles

1 1/4 miles??

 

[Railsigns]

I have checked my rule book and this is what it says!

Signaller:

When the equipment has been put in place, you must continue to
tell drivers who will travel over the affected line until you are told
that all drivers passing over the affected route are being informed
by a special advice or notice if the restriction is:
• a speed lower than 20 mph, or
• longer than 2 km (1 miles).

Are you sure your Rule Book is up to date? I don't see anything like that in Issue 3 of Module SP, but there's something in Issue 2.

 

[O L Leigh]

That is correct for ESR/TSR advanced indicators, warning boards and commencement boards but what about "T" boards!

My previous post contained the direct quote from Module SP Para 7.1 (Issue 3 April 2008). No mention is made of missing "T" boards because, as has been said, it is not a safety issue but a performance one.

I do understand what you say about very long ESR's being implemented suddenly, but this so very rarely happens. I can confirm that this 1 1/4 mile rule you make reference to does not exist in the current edition of the Rules, though perhaps it may have done previously. Therefore I will continue at the posted ESR speed for as long as it takes for the "T" board to appear and, if it seems to be a long time coming, I might just buzz up the box and enquire of the signaller just where the ESR is supposed to end.

O L Leigh