Telling the difference between a HST and 800 on RTT

[Peter C]

I use RealTimeTrains (RTT) for when I go trainspotting and whenever I travel by train. As I live in the old Western Region, HSTs are a thing and I like to see them if I can. When I look on RTT, it tells you the style of refreshment service available on the trains. I know that the Class 800 don't have buffets, and the HSTs do. RTT can distinguish between the two, but it isn't always correct as sometimes a Class 800, apparently with a "buffet", will turn up instead of a Class 43!
Any help on identifying the Class 800s and HSTs would be much appreciated, even if not on RTT!
Thanks.
-Peter

If there is already a thread on this topic, please let me know!

 

[cactustwirly]

I use RealTimeTrains (RTT) for when I go trainspotting and whenever I travel by train. As I live in the old Western Region, HSTs are a thing and I like to see them if I can. When I look on RTT, it tells you the style of refreshment service available on the trains. I know that the Class 800 don't have buffets, and the HSTs do. RTT can distinguish between the two, but it isn't always correct as sometimes a Class 800, apparently with a "buffet", will turn up instead of a Class 43!
Any help on identifying the Class 800s and HSTs would be much appreciated, even if not on RTT!
Thanks.
-Peter

If there is already a thread on this topic, please let me know!

They use the same timing loads, and the buffet information is inaccurate.
Your best bet is to look at the Frequently Requested diagrams thread, also, services that start or finish at St Phillips Marsh, with a HST timing load, will be HSTs!

 

[Peter C]

They use the same timing loads, and the buffet information is inaccurate.
Your best bet is to look at the Frequently Requested diagrams thread, also, services that start or finish at St Phillips Marsh, with a HST timing load, will be HSTs!

Thank you very much.
On a slightly different note, do you know how I could get access to the TRUST system like many others on this forum do? I have a request pending with NR on the website but I think I might be doing something wrong.

 

[cactustwirly]

Thank you very much.
On a slightly different note, do you know how I could get access to the TRUST system like many others on this forum do? I have a request pending with NR on the website but I think I might be doing something wrong.

You need to be a TOC employee to get access to it.

 

[Peter C]

You need to be a TOC employee to get access to it.

Oh ok. But then how do RTT and OTT work?

 

[nat67]

Oh ok. But then how do RTT and OTT work?

You could use TigerIris it gives you MOST of the time the number of coaches that train has.

 

[cactustwirly]

Oh ok. But then how do RTT and OTT work?

They use publically available data feeds, TRUST is private and gives out much more private information than RTT/OTT

 

[Darandio]

Oh ok. But then how do RTT and OTT work?

They use freely available open data, nothing to do with TRUST.

 

[_toommm_]

TRUST gives you real info on cancellations, including specifics, and can often place blame quite quickly with the data being 'live', hence why it's not public info.

 

[Peter C]

They use freely available open data, nothing to do with TRUST.

Oh ok. I must have got mixed up!
How would one access this "freely available open data"?

 

[cactustwirly]

Oh ok. I must have got mixed up!
How would one access this "freely available open data"?

There's an API somewhere, either on the NR or NRE website.

 

[_toommm_]

There's an API somewhere, either on the NR or NRE website.

Although there's a long wait and only limited tokens to access it IIRC?

 

[FGW_DID]

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/who-we-are/transparency-and-ethics/transparency/open-data-feeds/

Open data feed access is limited to 500 people, the page linked to will show you what feeds are available, there is a link to case studies of developers who have used the data feeds to produce sites like Open Train Times.

What exactly are you expecting to be ‘able to see’ if you gained access.

On another note, are you confusing TRUST with TOPS? TRUST is all about train running so you won’t get any more info on specific services than you do on RTT etc. It’s only if there is a connection to TOPS that you would get the specific rolling stock allocations which I suspect that’s what you are actually after.

 

[Peter C]

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/who-we-are/transparency-and-ethics/transparency/open-data-feeds/

Open data feed access is limited to 500 people, the page linked to will show you what feeds are available, there is a link to case studies of developers who have used the data feeds to produce sites like Open Train Times.

What exactly are you expecting to be ‘able to see’ if you gained access.

On another note, are you confusing TRUST with TOPS? TRUST is all about train running so you won’t get any more info on specific services than you do on RTT etc. It’s only if there is a connection to TOPS that you would get the specific rolling stock allocations which I suspect that’s what you are actually after.

Ah ha! That's what I'm after - TOPS!
I have an account pending on the NR website and I'm in a queue of ~800.
I'm looking to be able to see what units are on what diagrams, if possible.

 

[PHILIPE]

Ah ha! That's what I'm after - TOPS!
I have an account pending on the NR website and I'm in a queue of ~800.
I'm looking to be able to see what units are on what diagrams, if possible.

I don't think that TOPS is on the Open Data list

 

[_toommm_]

Ah ha! That's what I'm after - TOPS!
I have an account pending on the NR website and I'm in a queue of ~800.
I'm looking to be able to see what units are on what diagrams, if possible.

The only way to do that is to message in our TOPS request thread and someone who has access to it will reply to you if you can - although it is human powered so not all requests can/do get answered of course.

 

[FGW_DID]

Ah ha! That's what I'm after - TOPS!
I have an account pending on the NR website and I'm in a queue of ~800.
I'm looking to be able to see what units are on what diagrams, if possible.

I’m afraid you’ll be sorely disappointed! That info is not in the open data feeds available to the public. Best way forward for yourself is to follow toomms advice and post a request here:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ns-traction-etc-instructions-in-post-2.86602/

 

[Freightmaster]

Ah ha! That's what I'm after - TOPS!
I'm looking to be able to see what units are on what diagrams, if possible.

As per the replies above, the public Open Data feeds only provide the schedules/timings of trains;
information on the location of specific units/locos is only available from 'internal' railway computer
systems such as TOPS, Genius, etc.

I have an account pending on the NR website and I'm in a queue of ~800.

Even if by some miracle, the data feeds *did* provide TOPS data, you would have to be able
to write your own software to download the raw data from the NROD server, decode it and
store it in a database, plus more software to interogate the contents of the database and
display the results.

I wonder how many of the ~800 people in the queue realise this??


MARK

 

[Peter C]

I’m afraid you’ll be sorely disappointed! That info is not in the open data feeds available to the public. Best way forward for yourself is to follow toomms advice and post a request here:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ns-traction-etc-instructions-in-post-2.86602/

As per the replies above, the public Open Data feeds only provide the schedules/timings of trains;
information on the location of specific units/locos is only available from 'internal' railway computer
systems such as TOPS, Genius, etc.


Even if by some miracle, the data feeds *did* provide TOPS data, you would have to be able
to write your own software to download the raw data from the NROD server, decode it and
store it in a database, plus more software to interogate the contents of the database and
display the results.

I wonder how many of the ~800 people in the queue realise this??


MARK

Thank you very much for your input. I'm certainly not good enough at computer programs to make one that works, let alone do everything that I'd need it to do!
I'll just ask around on the forums when I'd like to find out what units are on what service.
May I ask, who or what is "toomms advice"?

Thanks in advance,

-Peter

 

[_toommm_]

Thank you very much for your input. I'm certainly not good enough at computer programs to make one that works, let alone do everything that I'd need it to do!
I'll just ask around on the forums when I'd like to find out what units are on what service.
May I ask, who or what is "toomms advice"?

Thanks in advance,

-Peter

That's my advice, about posting in the TOPS request thread, see up thread or below:

The only way to do that is to message in our TOPS request thread and someone who has access to it will reply to you if you can - although it is human powered so not all requests can/do get answered of course.

 

[Peter C]

That's my advice, about posting in the TOPS request thread, see up thread or below:

Oh sorry!

 

[tiptoptaff]

Access to TOPs is limited to those who need it. My TRUST log in doesn't give me full access to TOPS.

Its fair to say you will not be given access by NR. Ever. Unless you become an employee of them or a TOC/FOC. And even then, you'll only get access if your job requires it. I will lose mine when I leave my current role in the summer.

If its allocations to spot you're after, then post in the TOPS request thread.

But, as an off-topic point, whatever happened to proper spotting? Just going out to somewhere and seeing what the luck of the draw sent your way!?

 

[Peter C]

Access to TOPs is limited to those who need it. My TRUST log in doesn't give me full access to TOPS.

Its fair to say you will not be given access by NR. Ever. Unless you become an employee of them or a TOC/FOC. And even then, you'll only get access if your job requires it. I will lose mine when I leave my current role in the summer.

If its allocations to spot you're after, then post in the TOPS request thread.

But, as an off-topic point, whatever happened to proper spotting? Just going out to somewhere and seeing what the luck of the draw sent your way!?

Thank you very much for the information. After waiting for so long on the NR website and reading up on the subject over the weekend, I gathered that I would not be able to access any TOPS system.
In response to your spotting comment, yes, I agree that specifically looking for a certain engine or unit isn't "proper spotting", but it can be very useful if you're like me and you can't go out spotting as much as you'd like - going out spotting a few times a month but being able to see the units that you know you haven't seen can be more rewarding in my opinion than going out every week but seeing the same few units every time, like I seem to!*

*I don't want to start an argument or anything here, as I seem to be good at doing that on these fourms!

 

[66Yorks]

When using TigerIris what is people's preference of viewing? Mine is staff view.

 

[Peter C]

When using TigerIris what is people's preference of viewing? Mine is staff view.

Same here.

 

[cactustwirly]

When using TigerIris what is people's preference of viewing? Mine is staff view.

Summary, tells you the no of coaches quickly

 

[trainmania100]

If you want access to tops the best thing to do would be to buy a @Freightmaster online subscription the best tool in the enthusiast industry, I understand the forum has regular tops printouts

Also on rail-record.co.uk I try to update each service code with the assumed traction at a route-level, see here at the bottom it show 166
https://www.rail-record.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/260085/06/03/19

 

[yorkie]

I use RealTimeTrains (RTT) for when I go trainspotting and whenever I travel by train. As I live in the old Western Region, HSTs are a thing and I like to see them if I can. When I look on RTT, it tells you the style of refreshment service available on the trains. I know that the Class 800 don't have buffets, and the HSTs do. RTT can distinguish between the two, but it isn't always correct as sometimes a Class 800, apparently with a "buffet", will turn up instead of a Class 43!
Any help on identifying the Class 800s and HSTs would be much appreciated, even if not on RTT!
Thanks.
-Peter

If there is already a thread on this topic, please let me know!

Sites such as RealTimeTrains can only show what is in the open data feed. The timing load information is not always the same as the booked traction; see an explanation on timing loads by @D6700 made 6 years ago for more information on the limitations of this data.

Actual allocation data is certainly not in open data feeds, and there is no indication as to when it might be.

Signing up to gain access to the API is not going to be of any use to you unless you are a computer programmer looking to develop your own version of a website such as OTT, RTT etc.

 

[Peter C]

Thank you all very much for your input.