TeesTrains

[142094]

Secondly, pathing issues through Hartlepool.

What pathing issues? With only 1tph each way run by Northern and the Grand Centrals and a few freights, I'd say there is plenty of room for extra services. The tricky part is through Sunderland where you have to factor in the Metro.

I agree with your other point, Peterlee could do with a station and that should be addressed first.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

I'd say a service to Newcastle Airport could work - taking the metro lines anyone?

Newcastle Airport
Newcastle Central
Gateshead
Heworth
Pelaw
Sunderland
Seaham
East Durham Parkway
Hart Village
Hartlepool
Seaton Carew
Billingham
Old Billingham
Norton
Stockton
Thornaby
Teesside Park
Middlesbrough
Cargo Fleet
South Bank
British Steel Redcar
Redcar Central
Redcar East
Longbeck
Marske
Saltburn

-Anyone?

 

[142094]

1) Gauging issues on the Metro

2) Would Nexus allow you to run on their metals?

Sort both of those out and you might be on to a good idea.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

1) Gauging issues on the Metro

2) Would Nexus allow you to run on their metals?

Sort both of those out and you might be on to a good idea.

Was meant as a joke, but I don't see why some kind of spur could not exist to the Airport - then it gives people the opportunity to run such services.

 

[142094]

Was meant as a joke, but I don't see why some kind of spur could not exist to the Airport - then it gives people the opportunity to run such services.

Hard to tell if it was serious or not.

BR used to run between Benton Junction and Callerton, and the wires were raised along this section specifically to allow goods trains. Not sure how high the wires were constrcuted between Bank Foot and Airport when the extension was opened in 1991, so in theory you might be able to run a service that way. However to use the avoiding line at the depot there are special signalling arrangements that have to be followed.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

It would be fantastic to have such a service though.

Or even one which terminates at the MetroCentre and comes straight back down? Or if worst comes to worst, start/finish in Hartlepool Bay Platform heading southbound.

 

[simonm]

East Cleveland (Loftus etc) and Teesside have had their once high frequency buses cut. I remember some buses ran up to every 5 mins on some routes in Stockton for example, with last buses at 11:35pm, but all stopped now as most people have a car now. I can't see how the market for trains would fare any better. Opening the line to Whitby from Saltburn might be a better prospect but that has about as much chance as me becoming Chief Rabbi....

 

[142094]

It would be fantastic to have such a service though.

Or even one which terminates at the MetroCentre and comes straight back down? Or if worst comes to worst, start/finish in Hartlepool Bay Platform heading southbound.

The only service to use the bay at Hartlepool was the one from Darlo on Sundays - which funnily enough is now extended to the MetroCentre, and comes back again. If extra stock was around, then having two trains per hour from Newcastle to Hartlepool and Middlesbrough would certainly be possible (depends on the pathings between Pelaw and Sunderland though).

 

[tbtc]

Phew, finally someone is addressing the missing link. No, not Blackpool - London, I talk of the lucrative Brotton - Seaham service. About time these towns were linked up.

Seriously though, its interesting to read an Open Access idea that doesn't involve piggybacking on a busy existing flow (e..g London - York), and that suggests a number of new stations etc. Crazy idea, but at least there are some stations on that list I'm in favour of (re)opening.

Out of interest, since Northern only run 142/156s in that neck of the woods, any reason why services down the Durham Coast don't run beyond Middlesbrough/Nunthorpe? I'd have thought that Whitby/ Saltburn/ Redcar had at least as much demand for Sunderland/ Newcastle/ Metro Centre services as for Darlington (with no offence to Darlo)

And, yes, I am now hungry!

 

[s'land]

Hard to tell if it was serious or not.

BR used to run between Benton Junction and Callerton, and the wires were raised along this section specifically to allow goods trains. Not sure how high the wires were constrcuted between Bank Foot and Airport when the extension was opened in 1991, so in theory you might be able to run a service that way. However to use the avoiding line at the depot there are special signalling arrangements that have to be followed.

i'm sure there were plans to have heavy rail passenger services to newcastle airport, i think it said somewhere on the airports future plans/expansion

 

[tbtc]

i'm sure there were plans to have heavy rail passenger services to newcastle airport, i think it said somewhere on the airports future plans/expansion

I presume that the problem would be diesels (with their fumes etc) running through the tunnels under Newcastle - there's a ventilation issue there.

But it couldn't be EMUs, due to the Metro Voltage not being strong enough.

 

[142094]

Out of interest, since Northern only run 142/156s in that neck of the woods, any reason why services down the Durham Coast don't run beyond Middlesbrough/Nunthorpe? I'd have thought that Whitby/ Saltburn/ Redcar had at least as much demand for Sunderland/ Newcastle/ Metro Centre services as for Darlington (with no offence to Darlo)

There are three main self-contained routes out of Middlesbrough with Northern:

1) Hexham - Newcastle - Middlesbrough (with some services going on to Nunthorpe [incidentially it was only at the start of this year that Nunthorpe saw an increase in services])

2) Saltburn - Middlesbrough - Darlington (with some continuing to Bishop Auckland).

3) Middlesbrough - Whitby.

In the morning there are services between Saltburn and Newcastle, but the stock for this normally runs ECS from Heaton to Middlesbrough, then stays in the Newcastle area after the morning peak. So to run any service through to Newcastle from Whitby/Saltburn you'd need to get extra units to eitehr provide these services or cover the other 'normal' services.

i'm sure there were plans to have heavy rail passenger services to newcastle airport, i think it said somewhere on the airports future plans/expansion

Haven't heard about this but it would take a lot of effort.

I presume that the problem would be diesels (with their fumes etc) running through the tunnels under Newcastle - there's a ventilation issue there.

The loading gauge for the Metro is slightly smaller than the UK standard, which is why the tamper had to be specially made for the system. Also the tamper is diesel, so wouldn't have thought any other diesel would have been that much of an issue.

 

[tbtc]

There are three main self-contained routes out of Middlesbrough with Northern:

1) Hexham - Newcastle - Middlesbrough (with some services going on to Nunthorpe [incidentially it was only at the start of this year that Nunthorpe saw an increase in services])

2) Saltburn - Middlesbrough - Darlington (with some continuing to Bishop Auckland).

3) Middlesbrough - Whitby.

In the morning there are services between Saltburn and Newcastle, but the stock for this normally runs ECS from Heaton to Middlesbrough, then stays in the Newcastle area after the morning peak. So to run any service through to Newcastle from Whitby/Saltburn you'd need to get extra units to eitehr provide these services or cover the other 'normal' services.

I was just thinking that it might be more use to extend the hourly Hexham - Metro Centre - Newcastle - Sunderland - Hartlepool - Middlesbrough service to Saltburn in place of one of the two Darlington - Saltburn services (keeping the same frequency between Bishop Auckland/ Darlington/ Middlesbrough, just giving Saltburn one Darlo service and one Hexham service). You wouldn't need any more trains, just a rejigging of the existing ones.

For example, the southbound Hexham service arrives in Middlesbrough around xx.48 each hour. This extends to Saltburn in the path of the xx.56 departure (ex Darlington). It takes roughly an hour to to Boro - Saltburn - Boro, so the Hexham unit has (part of) its layover time at Saltburn instead.

Saltburn/ Redcar etc get a direct link to Sunderland/ Newcastle/ Metro Centre, in certain hours. I reckon that'd work off peak (which is part of the point of the TeesTrains proposal - linking one side of Middlesbrough with the other).

Getting funding for the additional stations they want (inc line to Brotton/ Loftus reopened for passenger service) may be harder to achieve though!

The loading gauge for the Metro is slightly smaller than the UK standard, which is why the tamper had to be specially made for the system. Also the tamper is diesel, so wouldn't have thought any other diesel would have been that much of an issue.

Cheers.

 

[142094]

I was just thinking that it might be more use to extend the hourly Hexham - Metro Centre - Newcastle - Sunderland - Hartlepool - Middlesbrough service to Saltburn in place of one of the two Darlington - Saltburn services (keeping the same frequency between Bishop Auckland/ Darlington/ Middlesbrough, just giving Saltburn one Darlo service and one Hexham service). You wouldn't need any more trains, just a rejigging of the existing ones.

For example, the southbound Hexham service arrives in Middlesbrough around xx.48 each hour. This extends to Saltburn in the path of the xx.56 departure (ex Darlington). It takes roughly an hour to to Boro - Saltburn - Boro, so the Hexham unit has (part of) its layover time at Saltburn instead.

Saltburn/ Redcar etc get a direct link to Sunderland/ Newcastle/ Metro Centre, in certain hours. I reckon that'd work off peak (which is part of the point of the TeesTrains proposal - linking one side of Middlesbrough with the other).

That could possibly work, can't really see a reason why it wouldn't.

 

[alanf]

Probably won't work as it makes complete sense so therefore it wouldnt be implemented

Alan

 

[tbtc]

That could possibly work, can't really see a reason why it wouldn't.

Only problem would be if *all* the Durham Coast services were 156s (and all the Darlington services were 142s), but 142s seem to work at least some duties on all Heaton routes (as far as I can see)

 

[JohnCarlson]

I presume that the problem would be diesels (with their fumes etc) running through the tunnels under Newcastle - there's a ventilation issue there.

But it couldn't be EMUs, due to the Metro Voltage not being strong enough.

But you wouldn't need to go through the tunnels. A train traveling northwards out of Newcastle could get onto the metro system at Benton then stop at the big government offices at Longbenton. Run around the back of the metro depot and then stop at Regent Center and the airport.

Some track work would need to be put in place but it could be done.

If, of course, someone came up with the money.

 

[142094]

Only problem would be if *all* the Durham Coast services were 156s (and all the Darlington services were 142s), but 142s seem to work at least some duties on all Heaton routes (as far as I can see)

Trying to think of which routes are signed by staff - IIRC Newcastle crews will do Carlisle - Newcastle, MetroCentre - Chathill and Newcastle - Middlesbrough, whereas Middlesbrough based ones do Saltburn - Bishop Auckland, Middlesbrough - Whitby and probably also Middlesbrough - Newcastle. In most cases there is a change of crew at Newcastle for Nunthorpe - Hexham trains so there shouldn't be a problem in this sense.

142s are quite ubiquitous in the NE so all routes will see 142 traction apart from Middlesbrough - Whitby which is now always 156s, but again this shouldn't make a difference.

But you wouldn't need to go through the tunnels. A train traveling northwards out of Newcastle could get onto the metro system at Benton then stop at the big government offices at Longbenton. Run around the back of the metro depot and then stop at Regent Center and the airport.

Some track work would need to be put in place but it could be done.

If, of course, someone came up with the money.

The missing bit of the link is the west - south chord at Benton Junction, which probably could be replaced quite easily (then again when Boldon north-east chord was replaced by Network Rail earlier this year it cost a few £million for a very small section of track).

The only major problem would be the height of the wires. As I said previously, BR used to run to Callerton before the Metro was extended in 1991, so unless there have been major changes to the overheads, you could still get as far as Bank Foot. After that, I'm not sure if the wires would be high enough for clearance.

 

[DarloRich]

Sorry to revive a dead post but i have just had a tweet from @TEESTRAINSCIC saying the following:

This week we will set out our proposals to give a genuine reason and context for the reopening of the Leamside Line, watch this space


yeah right - have you just found £200m down the back of the sofa?

 

[martinsh]

Sorry to revive a dead post but i have just had a tweet from @TEESTRAINSCIC saying the following:

This week we will set out our proposals to give a genuine reason and context for the reopening of the Leamside Line, watch this space


yeah right - have you just found £200m down the back of the sofa?

Maybe Dave & Angela Dawes have given them £1.5 million as well ?!:roll: