Tees Metro

[TrainBrain185]

After reading todays Northern Echo, the Tees Metro got another mention. Seems as though there is still support to try and get this project up and running, but I ask why? It only intends using existing track that Northern Rail currently covers to which I believe is a good service.
I have reservations that a Tees Metro and its costs to get up and running would be a waste of public money and you only need look at the Sunderland extension of Tyne and Wear Metro as proof. Before the Sunderland Metro commenced, a 15 minute service operated by BR trains provided a good enough service and significantly faster between the two cities than the slower Metro service provided now with a couple more stations en route. The South Hylton section has underperformed in expected patronage too.
I much preferred the comfort and quicker journey time of the previous 142/156 units before Metro took over.
To some folk, sure, a brand new Tram heading from Darlington to Saltburn might look appealing but add on more station stops near perhaps undesirable housing estate areas and resultant vehicle vandalism, slower speeds than BR stock, people will soon notice a difference.
I think trams have their place but not as replacements for long sections of rail lines such as Darlington-Boro-Saltburn.
Comments?
Regards:

 

[attics26]

amazed that moving the line from one side of the ecml to the other solves all the problems likely to be encounted at Darlo and all for the paltry in rail terms of 10 million !

That covers cost of new track, platforms, signalling and a link to current station on the other side of the ecml whilst losing any connection with Bishop Auckland branch - only way for it to work is for the current station to be moved to straddle the ecml to enable a proper interchange to be put in place which would cost somewhat more.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Proposed Metro route

As far as i know, all ECML trains will be moved to the west of the station, and the platform to the east is going to be used as the TV Metro.
Here is an article from the BBC:
Tees Valley Metro
No trams, no tunnels, but if you do the Marton Crawl every morning, the prospect of a metro is mouth-watering. It's a long way off, but if you're stuck on Marton Road, so is Middlesbrough centre.

-> There’s one thing we can tell you about this plan. They’re keeping it simple.

"This is in the "very difficult to do" box, there's no doubt about it."
Joe Docherty, Tees Valley RegenerationWe’ve tried to get a Metro network going on Teesside before and it never happened, so this time, they’re looking at a system that won’t need any lines laying and won’t cost the kind of money the government will never give us.

The plan is to use the existing railway tracks from Saltburn to Darlington, make them run faster, make them run every fifteen minutes, and put more stops in. At the moment, it can take you well over an hour to get from Saltburn to Darlington. Under the new plans, they reckon they can get that down to less than 45 minutes. There will also be, to start with, five new stops along the way and shuttle buses linking the service with places like Hartlepool and Nunthorpe.

If it gets the go-ahead, we can expect to see it up and running in the next six years or so.

The estimated cost is £140m, but Tees Valley Regeneration, who are proposing the scheme, say £90m of that is money the rail network would have to fork out for work that needs doing anyway.

NOTICE: This was last updated 22/04/09, so some things may be out-dated.

To view the NORTHERN ECHO article, click HERE.

 

[gordonthemoron]

shuttle buses to Hartlepool & Nunthorpe? Why not use the existing train services and/or make them more frequent?

 

[flymo]

Should be an interesting change of pace at Teesside Airport (Durham Tees Valley Airport) with 4 trains each way per hour calling there instead of one train each way per week. Assuming they all call there in the new plan of course

 

[gordonthemoron]

Should be an interesting change of pace at Teesside Airport (Durham Tees Valley Airport) with 4 trains each way per hour calling there instead of one train each way per week. Assuming they all call there in the new plan of course

wasn't there a plan to reroute the trams closer to the terminal building?

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Should be an interesting change of pace at Teesside Airport (Durham Tees Valley Airport) with 4 trains each way per hour calling there instead of one train each way per week. Assuming they all call there in the new plan of course

The one per week train was called off. Gordon, what you're saying is true, the metro will have a proper terminus at DTV Airport, just to make it more pleasant. They're also talking about adding shops and a business centre around it to attract people.

Buses will run between Hartlepool and Nunthorpe as a METRO Service is being built, but normal services will still commence. When the phase 3 section is completed, it means a 15 minutely service to Middlesbrough will occur from Hartlepool & Nunthorpe.

 

[gordonthemoron]

such nice destinations

 

[attics26]

the ONE train per week in either direction still calls at the airport (sat only)
The idea of all ecml trains using the one platform to the west side of the station is a joke - all passgr trains freight etc including passing trains thru one platform with added delays.

 

[gordonthemoron]

the ONE train per week in either direction still calls at the airport (sat only)
The idea of all ecml trains using the one platform to the west side of the station is a joke - all passgr trains freight etc including passing trains thru one platform with added delays.

Surely the freight trains, and any passenger trains which don't call at Darlo would currently use the station avoiding lines?

 

[attics26]

Surely the freight trains, and any passenger trains which don't call at Darlo would currently use the station avoiding lines?

avoiding lines are to the east of the station which means "metro" would have to cross to access station - that is why plan calls for new platforms east of the ecml etc

 

[TrainBrain185]

A much more adventurous idea. Might cost a bit more, but would perhaps be worth it.
1) Cull the Metro service to Sunderland, upgrade to 25Kv from 1500V. 2) Electrify the Durham Coast Line, refurbish stations.
3) Electrify the Middlesbrough-Darlo Line, refurbish stations.
4) Equip the electrified lines with new 100mph capable EMU stock replacing DMU and Metro units on Sunderland.
5) Alternate ECML stock to operate both via Durham and the Durham Coast.

Maybe a dream?

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

A much more adventurous idea. Might cost a bit more, but would perhaps be worth it.
1) Cull the Metro service to Sunderland, upgrade to 25Kv from 1500V. 2) Electrify the Durham Coast Line, refurbish stations.
3) Electrify the Middlesbrough-Darlo Line, refurbish stations.
4) Equip the electrified lines with new 100mph capable EMU stock replacing DMU and Metro units on Sunderland.
5) Alternate ECML stock to operate both via Durham and the Durham Coast.

Maybe a dream?

Actually, that was in the 3,000 Mile electrification plan.
Northallerton - Middlesbrough
Middlesbrough - Sunderland (via Hartlepool)

But yeah, I should think every Metro Station shoul dhave new computers etc etc

To make it more attractive to ECML Operators, stations such as Hartlepool would need big revamps, with new screens put in place, (the interchange will definately help), a better customer service etc. It would be nice to know we had a local Metro, one that has good stations to go with it and one that we can be proud of.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I can see the sense in putting local platforms to the east of the existing straight-through avoider lines.
Presumably there would be a footbridge/underpass and lifts to allow pax to move between the Saltburn line and the Saltburn line(s).

Going beyond the actual propsals, I completely agree that Hartlepool needs a lot more than a lick of paint - a platform on the up line would be a good start.
But is there any room to extend the platforms at Stockton? It seems odd that this modest but developing town has just 1 tiny station of its own but there's higher capacity & longer platforms at neighbouring Thornaby and Eaglescliffe.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

But is there any room to extend the platforms at Stockton? It seems odd that this modest but developing town has just 1 tiny station of its own but there's higher capacity & longer platforms at neighbouring Thornaby and Eaglescliffe.

Yes, there is PLENTY of space for extending the platforms at Stockton, the platforms could be easily tripled due to the straight between Thornaby Junction & the bridge that links Norton Rd.

But, in Hartlepool, I would recommend opening the Southbound line on the far side, as there is often either a freight or passenger train waiting for a platform, and it is a major cause of delays. I do know that the station is having the roof taken off (entirely), after a recent meeting, live departure boards placed and it is 80% definate that the Southbound platform would be re-opening, but it could be 2015 before all of these are completed, but atleast it's still in place.

 

[Spaceflower]

Middlesbrough would be a bottleneck without major remodelling.
The route from Middlesbrough to Hartlepool is a long one and means stupidly long journey times considering costs and times of alternatives. Frequency also sucks currently.
Darlington, Darlington, Darlington,...(shakes head).
Durham Tees Valley has lost flights and airlines are going out of business.
One ofTeesides biggest employer is closing steelworks and associated plants at Redcar and Darlington.
Credit crunch.

A metro sounds like a great idea!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It seems odd that this modest but developing town has just 1 tiny station of its own but there's higher capacity & longer platforms at neighbouring Thornaby and Eaglescliffe.

Not surprising considering the stations location, not just in the context of its position within the town but also within the context of the wider network and current service patterns.

Hartlepool is earmarked to recieve a bit more than a lick of paint.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

In order for this to work, there needs to be:
- Ticket machines at EVERY station called at, ensuring a quick & easy pickup scheme (these could also be ordered online for like week rangers or something)

- Live departure boards at all stations to ensure we know when the next one is and to keep us updated.

- Dedicated areas of platform (at main stations, IE end of the lines), (like Darlington have for Saltburn-bound trains)

- Easy access trains, with places for wheelchairs and buggies.

Otherwise, this service would not be used or in fact, could be used less than the current service(s) along the lines.

 

[Graeme_r]

Most of you are missing the point. Look at the proposals, look at the lack of consultation and ask if it would make you use the train more than you do at present. Complain to your Councillors about the limitations and demand they call for something better and more relevant, something that will deliver new rail routes in the Tees Valley over and above currently existing ones.
For those that haven't studied the proposals, this uses the same railway lines, serves the same destinations, offering only a few repositioned stations and a few refurbished stations. It is pure spin to call this a Metro - it is a Local Rail service upgrade, but at a hefty £140 Million. Trouble is, lot's of people are supporting this because they have been duped by the Metro tag without studying the detailed proposals. Doesn't connect Guisborough at all, nor Ingleby Barwick or the Wilton Chemical complex which all have huge volumes of car users. Offers nothing new for Hartlepool. Promises extra trains at off peak time when the existing ones are nearly empty. If it goes ahead in this format it will be a huge white Elephant. New lines are needed, with a figure 8 configuration linking places above, the Wynyard hospital etc if this is to actually be a proper Metro.

 

[TrainBrain185]

Most of you are missing the point. Look at the proposals, look at the lack of consultation and ask if it would make you use the train more than you do at present. Complain to your Councillors about the limitations and demand they call for something better and more relevant, something that will deliver new rail routes in the Tees Valley over and above currently existing ones.
For those that haven't studied the proposals, this uses the same railway lines, serves the same destinations, offering only a few repositioned stations and a few refurbished stations. It is pure spin to call this a Metro - it is a Local Rail service upgrade, but at a hefty £140 Million. Trouble is, lot's of people are supporting this because they have been duped by the Metro tag without studying the detailed proposals. Doesn't connect Guisborough at all, nor Ingleby Barwick or the Wilton Chemical complex which all have huge volumes of car users. Offers nothing new for Hartlepool. Promises extra trains at off peak time when the existing ones are nearly empty. If it goes ahead in this format it will be a huge white Elephant. New lines are needed, with a figure 8 configuration linking places above, the Wynyard hospital etc if this is to actually be a proper Metro.

I agree!

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Offers nothing new for Hartlepool. Promises extra trains at off peak time when the existing ones are nearly empty. If it goes ahead in this format it will be a huge white Elephant. New lines are needed, with a figure 8 configuration linking places above, the Wynyard hospital etc if this is to actually be a proper Metro.

As to the Hartlepool bit - there are still quite a few on the Northern & GC Services off-peak... Don't know where you're getting that from. If we got a direct service to Darlington, regardless of the Sunday service, everyones a winner. The airport would see a small (to start) increase in use, Darlington may even have more connections and as for Middlesbrough, there would still be quite a few using this service.

 

[Graeme_r]

As to the Hartlepool bit - there are still quite a few on the Northern & GC Services off-peak..etc.
Yes but they are not full. They will be even less full if more Trrams are put in service. Besides, many are going further afield to Newcastle etc not using the existing system for local journeys
What makes you think there will be a direct link from Hartlepool to Darlington?
The whole flaw of the "Metro" system is that there are NO extra lines ands major communities and emplyment centres remain unconnected- presumably you think that is good, but I do not.

THe Airport stop repositioning could encourage more business Journeys but I can't see mnay families lugging heavy suitcases to existing railway stations and then on to the terminal building for their annnual holiday.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Boost for Tees Valley metro plan

The creation of a metro system in the Tees Valley has moved a step closer. It is hoped that the new network will run between between Darlington and Saltburn, calling at all existing stations and five new stops.

The Interim Regional Transport Board has approved a £30m project, including two new railway stations, and the government has agreed in principle. One station will be at Middlesbrough's James Cook University Hospital and the second in Redcar and Cleveland. Durham Tees Valley Airport's station will also be relocated and new platforms will be installed at Darlington and Middlesbrough stations.

Station improvements will be carried out at Eaglescliffe, Thornaby, and Hartlepool. The government has agreed in principle to the regional programme, subject to affordability and quick delivery.

It would run on existing rail lines and use funding planned for improving and repairing railways. There are hopes for a second phase to the network, with an extension to Hartlepool and Nunthorpe.

Seems it is happening - but the Hartlepool & Nunthorpe section is now going to be in Phase one, too.

 

[TrainBrain185]

As to the Hartlepool bit - there are still quite a few on the Northern & GC Services off-peak..etc.
Yes but they are not full. They will be even less full if more Trrams are put in service. Besides, many are going further afield to Newcastle etc not using the existing system for local journeys
What makes you think there will be a direct link from Hartlepool to Darlington?
The whole flaw of the "Metro" system is that there are NO extra lines ands major communities and emplyment centres remain unconnected- presumably you think that is good, but I do not.

THe Airport stop repositioning could encourage more business Journeys but I can't see mnay families lugging heavy suitcases to existing railway stations and then on to the terminal building for their annnual holiday.

I do not think the project will pay recoup the investment made. The latest cost of this thing has escalated to £220 Million. One positive I suppose is the creation of a station at Teeside Park but will it be enough?
Durham Tees Valley Airport Station? There will have to be a major turn around in fortune there to gain extra passengers with the BMI London link gone, Globespan leaving, WhizzAir stopping,the airport only has RyanAir Dublin/Barcelona, KLM to Amsterdam twice daily and summer Charter flights keeping business going there...
I still think its a very risky project when money could be better spent improving a fairly good service at present on lines in question.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

I do not think the project will pay recoup the investment made. The latest cost of this thing has escalated to £220 Million. One positive I suppose is the creation of a station at Teeside Park but will it be enough?
Durham Tees Valley Airport Station? There will have to be a major turn around in fortune there to gain extra passengers with the BMI London link gone, Globespan leaving, WhizzAir stopping,the airport only has RyanAir Dublin/Barcelona, KLM to Amsterdam twice daily and summer Charter flights keeping business going there...
I still think its a very risky project when money could be better spent improving a fairly good service at present on lines in question.

Im totally at the other end of the stick on this one. People tend not to use DTV because there is no public transport, except the Service 12 from Middlesbrough & Darlington - which is often jam packed for the estates. ONE train a week is not enough for the service. When the Metro comes, people will be able to rely on it a lot more, and within one change from Hartlepool it does seem a lot clearer. £220 Million is for extra platforms, station ugprades etc - which it will need to be a reasonable service. A 15-minute frequency would be great for the economy and local use - a major increase in capacity and in turn, a major increase in usage.

 

[TrainBrain185]

Im totally at the other end of the stick on this one. People tend not to use DTV because there is no public transport, except the Service 12 from Middlesbrough & Darlington - which is often jam packed for the estates. ONE train a week is not enough for the service. When the Metro comes, people will be able to rely on it a lot more, and within one change from Hartlepool it does seem a lot clearer. £220 Million is for extra platforms, station ugprades etc - which it will need to be a reasonable service. A 15-minute frequency would be great for the economy and local use - a major increase in capacity and in turn, a major increase in usage.

I wished I could be as confident about it as you Dave. However, not so. Arriva NE operated a frequent service 737 from Darlington Centre to DTV using specially adapted low floor buses with extra luggage facilities and if the passenger had flight tickets, no fare was charged. The service also called into the Darlington Rail Station en route. The service was axed last year as it was not used. I wished DTV would attract more flights, but the last two years, passenger numbers have dropped. Lineside, there is a fair walk from the DTV platform to the Terminal, so the Airport would perhaps need to find revenue to operate a shuttle service. The Tees Metro is not going to penetrate and serve highly populated areas like Newcastle, Manchester and Sheffield systems do. All these LRT's serve massive leisure and sports complexes too and just looking at terms of local football supporter patronage, I don't think Darlington Arena is going to make big bucks and how far will Tees Metro be away from the Middlesborough football stadium?
It all seems a fine progressive idea for the local area on paper, but in practical terms, I am unsure it will be a resounding success.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Lineside, there is a fair walk from the DTV platform to the Terminal, so the Airport would perhaps need to find revenue to operate a shuttle service. The Tees Metro is not going to penetrate and serve highly populated areas like Newcastle, Manchester and Sheffield systems do. All these LRT's serve massive leisure and sports complexes too and just looking at terms of local football supporter patronage, I don't think Darlington Arena is going to make big bucks and how far will Tees Metro be away from the Middlesborough football stadium?

In regards to your last few questions/theories, a new station is to be built at DTV for the Metro - so the walk shouldnt be as long. The closest to Middlesbrough Football Stadium will either be James Cook Hospital or the Middlesbrough Station - 10 minute walk? The areas have both seen a huge increase in traffic, and Teesside Park would be a great advantage as their is just NO parking spaces, OR Public Transport. Hope these answer some of those!
- Dave

 

[Darandio]

I am baffled as to how it can be built any closer. Apart from the rather large car park that spans away from the terminal, you would then also have the problem of where to lay the track with the fire training accomodation and buildings covering a huge area from the terminal across to where the current track is situated.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

I was at a meeting last night, and I can now confirm that the Metro system IS coming. The funding is coming through, and Hartlepool works have already began. This includes the interchange, with additional screens located in the Town Centre and Church Square to allow people to check the screens from here. The interchange will allow buses, trains,taxis, cyclists & those walking to have one central location. It is currently on schedule, and the Hartlepool Station roof is due to be lifted off the end of this month to make room for the new glass one.

I did say that it would come to light. New Stock, New Stations (Teesside Park, James Cook Hosp), and much more. Services will link together at Thornaby, where two routes will run (Darlington - Saltburn & Nunthorpe - Hartlepool). All these services will call at Teesside Park additionally.

Just thought I should shed some light on this.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Some more updates:
Hartlepool Station Roof is due to be off by the end of the month, with work on the new glass one starting early in November.

The Transport Interchange is on schedule, and so will be ready for the Tall Ships 2010 if all goes correctly.

It's all on the up for Hartlepool right now!

 

[Graeme_r]

To OMGitsDAVE
Unlike you, I don't regard enhancement work on an existing railway station as being part of a component of a Metro system. Stations and rolling stock should be refurbished regularly under their own budgets, not sneaked in to be included as part of a supposed extension of provision of rail services. If we are to have a proper Metro sytem, it's budget should be dedicated to new track going to currently non rail served locations and new platforms, not having some of it being ddiverted to tarting up existing stations.

Your beloved Metro isn't going anywhere near the new Wynyard hospital for the benefit of the people of Hartlepool (But it is going to James Cook). Nor is going to serve Guisborough, nor Ingleby Barwick or most of East Cleveland to name but three more areas. Where it does serve existing towns, the number of platforms won't be consistent with the size of the populatiion

What a huge waste of money this current proposal is.

 

[142094]

Evening all,

Just wondering if anyone knows when Hartlepool was converted to the single through platform only? I remember it being like that around 15 years ago, when the footbridge was still in place. Family in the area can't remember or don't know. Always seemed a very strange set up to me.

Also, is there any other info on British Steel Redcar? It is supposed to be moving, but would this mean it would be open to the public?

Although I welcome the plans for investment, I don't think that trams is the way to go. Metro over on the Penistone line were having major problems, then it all was changed for the experiment to run to Rotherham in phase 1.

Shaun