Teenage son wants to be a train driver

[colgirl]

My son who is nearly 15 is interested in becoming a train driver. Could someone tell me please what he would need to do/where to apply? And what relevant voluntary work he could do which would help on his cv? Thanks.

 

[First class]

He's got 6 years before he can drive trains.

Ideally:

1) Driving License
2) Clean criminal record/past
3) NVQ Customer Service or equivalent
4) Some sort of mechanical understanding (and basic qualification)
5) Able to pass the Group Bourdon & SCAAT test

To be honest, I'd say it unrealistic for a 21 year old to be a driver, it is very rare. Most drivers are over 25, usually around 30 with previous railway experience.

Need to start at the very bottom and work his way up unfortunately!

Starter-Cleaner/Station Assistant
Progress to-Station Supervisor/Ticket Office/RPI
Then-Guard/Conductor
Then Driver

Some companies have a mandatory requirement to be a guard first with 5 years experience.

 

[the sniper]

My son who is nearly 15 is interested in becoming a train driver. Could someone tell me please what he would need to do/where to apply?

Sorry to be frank, but he'd be massively wasting his time applying at 15. He needs to go college and get a good education. Doing something in engineering/mechanics might help, but tbh, he should choose something which interests him/will lead to another job, as becoming a train driver is notoriously difficult nowadays. It's certainly not something that someone leaving the eduction system can get straight into.

Once he's left the education system he should try and get into a job which holds responsibility, requires concentration and is shift based. For example, being young, if he wishes he could try and enter the railway ladder at a lower grade, like platform staff/train dispatcher, and work his way up from there.

And what relevant voluntary work he could do which would help on his cv? Thanks.

It wouldn't really help getting into the driver grade, but to get into a lower grade, working on a preserved railway can help to an extent. Having done two work experience placements on the railway has helped me personally, so it might be worth perusing one of those.

If he's inclined to do so, when he's 18 he could look at becoming a Special Constable with the British Transport Police. Though he really needs to be keen on the idea of Policing if he wants to go down that route.

 

[colgirl]

Thank you very much for both your replies, they are most helpful, and I shall let him know.

 

[185]

Number 1) is a definate non-essential. My mate who drives 100mph trains can't even ride a bike, let alone a car

 

[First class]

Number 1) is a definate non-essential. My mate who drives 100mph trains can't even ride a bike, let alone a car

That question is now on nearly all automatic applications and answering "no" will nearly always return an automated rejection!

You either need to live very close to the depot or have own transport.

Public transport at 3am in the morning can be non existent.

 

[driver9000]

To be honest, I'd say it unrealistic for a 21 year old to be a driver, it is very rare. Most drivers are over 25, usually around 30 with previous railway experience.

Need to start at the very bottom and work his way up unfortunately!

Starter-Cleaner/Station Assistant
Progress to-Station Supervisor/Ticket Office/RPI
Then-Guard/Conductor
Then Driver

Some companies have a mandatory requirement to be a guard first with 5 years experience.

I was 22 and came straight on as a Trainee Driver. I've known a few trainees come through in their early 20s since then too. There is no need to start at the bottom.

Some TOCs will accept Trainee Drivers aged 20 providing they will be 21 by the time they come to be passed out. Minimum age for Guard is 18.

 

[the sniper]

What had you done previously driver9000, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[driver9000]

What had you done previously driver9000, if you don't mind me asking?

Bus/coach driver.

 

[the sniper]

Bus/coach driver.

Oh cool. A good way to get the required competencies young!

 

[anthony263]

Bus/coach driver.

Maybe i should stick to my job then for a few years, when i find a operator willing to employ me. All because i am under 25

 

[richw]

Sorry to be frank, but he'd be massively wasting his time applying at 15. .

I dont think this was ever the intention, I think the question was trying to find out what does he need to do at 16 qualification wise to give him a good chance when he is a bit older. i.e. what kind of college courses, basic jobs etc now, which will give him a better chance in 5-10 years

 

[Zoe]

2) Clean criminal record/past

Do they run full CRB checks on all drivers then?

 

[scotsman]

Do they run full CRB checks on all drivers then?

No idea, but given the competition for the jobs - anyone who declares a conviction is likely to be ruled out straight away. On being accepted, I imagine a CRB may be run at this stage.

 

[Zoe]

No idea, but given the competition for the jobs - anyone who declares a conviction is likely to be ruled out straight away. On being accepted, I imagine a CRB may be run at this stage.

On some of the forms I have seen, they only required convictions that were not spent to be declared. On a CRB check standard or enhanced all convictions will show regardless of if they are spent or not.

 

[the sniper]

I dont think this was ever the intention, I think the question was trying to find out what does he need to do at 16 qualification wise to give him a good chance when he is a bit older. i.e. what kind of college courses, basic jobs etc now, which will give him a better chance in 5-10 years

Well, the OP did say:

My son who is nearly 15 is interested in becoming a train driver. Could someone tell me please what he would need to do/where to apply?

But if you're interpretation is the correct one, then I say the OP's son should apply to a college that is local to him, he can probably get the forms from the front desk. I've already recommended what you've pointed out to me...

 

[richw]

I missed the where to apply bit.interpratated the what would he need to do as, what college, work experience, life skills etc

 

[driver9000]

Maybe i should stick to my job then for a few years, when i find a operator willing to employ me. All because i am under 25

As I already pointed out, I was under 25 when taken on. Don't let your age put you off as long as you meet the minimum age set out by the group standard then there is nothing to stop you applying.

Don't give up, I had been applying to the various railway companies for all kinds of jobs since I was 16 and although I had many interviews I never quite managed it until I got through the driver selection process. I was lucky as driving was what I always wanted to do.

 

[E&W Lucas]

He's got 6 years before he can drive trains.

Ideally:

1) Driving License
2) Clean criminal record/past
3) NVQ Customer Service or equivalent
4) Some sort of mechanical understanding (and basic qualification)
5) Able to pass the Group Bourdon & SCAAT test

To be honest, I'd say it unrealistic for a 21 year old to be a driver, it is very rare. Most drivers are over 25, usually around 30 with previous railway experience.

Need to start at the very bottom and work his way up unfortunately!

Starter-Cleaner/Station Assistant
Progress to-Station Supervisor/Ticket Office/RPI
Then-Guard/Conductor
Then Driver

Some companies have a mandatory requirement to be a guard first with 5 years experience.

Sorry, but virtually everything you have put there is incorrect. About the only bit that I would concur with is the statement about most drivers being 30+.

If you're starting as a station cleaner, then it is unlikely that you are going to be of a sufficiently high caliber to be a driver. There's no need for nonsense like customer service NVQ's either. Common sense is far more important.

The best thing the young man can do, is to get the best possible education that he can. Get involved with some worthwhile and constructive youth activities, that will teach responsibility and develop maturity.

If he wants to enter the workplace straight from school, then the railway is as good a place to be as any, but only if he can get into something half decent. He really doesn't want to be taking dross jobs like cleaning. You do get 18 year old guards, so if he's mature enough, that's worth a shot.

If the railway doesn't happen for him at 18, or if he wants to go into higher education, etc, then not a problem. A lot of young people will find that the only place they will be able to get jobs is in the service sector. I know those jobs are rubbish to start with, but they do often give the chance to progress upwards rapidly, if you've a "bit about you". I'm thinking of the supermarket or fast food chains, etc. Get a track record of responsibility in another industry, and then he will find that doors open elsewhere.

Please remember that the biggest recruiters of trainee drivers are the suburban unit operators, and the majority of those that are taken on are external candidates. That means a second career for people with a bit of experience of responsibility in the workplace.

Remember, what really matter is a driver's ability to take decisions under pressure.

 

[colgirl]

I've had some really interesting replies on here to my original question, so thank you all very much for taking the time to reply. Yes, he's still very young of course, but we're just thinking ahead to give us some idea of what action he should take when he's older. We live in Colchester, Essex so would it be a case of applying to our local network?

 

[JamesHorrell]

I Will Have to follow this post as i want to be a Train Driver too.

Is it the Same age on Preserved Lines as Mainline?

 

[anthony263]

As I already pointed out, I was under 25 when taken on. Don't let your age put you off as long as you meet the minimum age set out by the group standard then there is nothing to stop you applying.

Don't give up, I had been applying to the various railway companies for all kinds of jobs since I was 16 and although I had many interviews I never quite managed it until I got through the driver selection process. I was lucky as driving was what I always wanted to do.

Same thing with myself, i prefer driving than being stuck in an office.

I deally I would like to drive trains, but I will work driving buses, however that just mean I wont apply for any trainie train driver vacancies if they come up.

 

[Prodigy]

I've had some really interesting replies on here to my original question, so thank you all very much for taking the time to reply. Yes, he's still very young of course, but we're just thinking ahead to give us some idea of what action he should take when he's older. We live in Colchester, Essex so would it be a case of applying to our local network?

Unless he would be willing to re locate.

 

[RJ]

If you're starting as a station cleaner, then it is unlikely that you are going to be of a sufficiently high caliber to be a driver. There's no need for nonsense like customer service NVQ's either. Common sense is far more important.

I don't think that the correlation between job and ability is that rigid - there are a lot of very intelligent people working fairly menial jobs where I am.

 

[CarterUSM]

I know a few ex cleaners myself that are now drivers.

 

[387star]

Please remember that the biggest recruiters of trainee drivers are the suburban unit operators, and the majority of those that are taken on are external candidates. That means a second career for people with a bit of experience of responsibility in the workplace.

Would they not look to internal candiates first to demonstrate they develop their staff? I'm sure there are enough talented people within the TOCs who are quite capable?

I went to uni with retail experience and have had a few offers for railway assessments. I am now entering the industry as a night worker which will involve cleaning but I see it as well placed to progress upwards given I have decent qualifications and a want to learn.

The concentration dot/SCATT test is one of the most important to practice on as it is used for a number of roles and I for one failed it when I attempted to become a guard. There is a useful link you can download. When shapes become involved really study them closely before rushing in as you risk being caught out. Do not rush which is what I did it really isn't as easy as you might think. Another pointer is that the practice material is not identical to the test material so be prepared for things to be different and make sure you really read the instructions carefully and clear your mind.

If your son is not great at Maths maybe help him along. I am growing in confidence in the subject all the time after working hard to acheive a GCSE Grade C in the subject. Do not become used to the calculator. Working at basic adding, multiplying and subtracting under pressure will do wonders for these roles. Most importantly always read the questions carefully.

I have purchased books on mechanical aptitude, psychometric tests and physics which should help.

 

[Beveridges]

It's extremely difficult just to get on a trainee course and I would never have attempted it if I knew what I was getting myself in for. Maybe in the South East it is not too difficult but further north its far, far harder to get in.
25 attempts and counting so far! Been working towards being a Driver for 6 years now, have gained experience as a Shunting Driver & paid for and passed the driver assessments privately. I've even passed all stages of the selection process *twice* now and still not got a job out of it.

I am glad I'm not trying to get on the railway now however from outside. Just getting a Platform / Train Despatcher job can now be incredibly hard as an external applicant. Unfortunately starting lower than this may have to be considered nowadays, I know someone who had to apply to become a permenant night Cleaner and that was someone with University education. He didn't even get that job.
The progression route today would be something like starting off as a permenant night shift cleaner, then applying & waiting time to move on to the more desirable day shift (but still as a cleaner), then become something like a Gateline ticket checker or trolley staff, then after that a Train Despatcher, then a Conductor, then finally after years, a Driver.
Even working for an agency like Carlisle Cleaning or ISS (on permenant nights) has been considered by some, then they have progressed to getting a job with the TOC that the agency works with, with hope to progress to higher grades within that TOC. Starting off in undesirable grades has certainly paid off in the long term for some, I know several who started off as agency night shift carriage cleaners & have progressed to roles like Fitters Assistants/Shunters/Conductors on basic salaries between 25-30k, and maybe some of these may finally progress to Driving eventually.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Would they not look to internal candiates first to demonstrate they develop their staff? I'm sure there are enough talented people within the TOCs who are quite capable?

Short answer is NO!

Having been heavily involved in the training side of a DOO unit operator, the expectation was that the trainees would come from outside. You got some from inside, but not many.

Where I am now, we only train a handful, and they do get advertised internally first, but vacs do not always get filled (You end up recruiting qualified drivers from elsewhere). When you did get a lot of internals was when the likes of GNER & Virgin WC had to replace most of their workforce post privatisation. That's all been done now, so that opening has all but dried up.

Remember, we are talking about giving the parent of a 15 year old a "Plan A" for train driving. We all know the odd cleaner or 21 year old that has made it, but truth is that they are the exception. You cannot stake your future on those odds.

It is such a shame that there is no clear cut route for school leavers anymore.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

One option nobodies mentioned, i don't know where in the country you live but London Underground do operational apprenticeships for 16-18 year olds, while this doesn't lead directly into becoming a train driver it does provide a introduction into how the industry operates as well as an NVQ in railway operations. There are some differences between how the tube and overground operates but overall not many.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/jobs/17156.aspx heres the link onto the website giving more information

 

[E&W Lucas]

I've had some really interesting replies on here to my original question, so thank you all very much for taking the time to reply. Yes, he's still very young of course, but we're just thinking ahead to give us some idea of what action he should take when he's older. We live in Colchester, Essex so would it be a case of applying to our local network?

This thread has certainly got me thinking. The membership of the forum seems to be predominantly younger enthusiasts, but with a few of us that are actually working in the industry, including drivers. I am sure many on here are asking themselves the same questions.

As you will have gathered, there is no guaranteed route into driving; no job in the industry is a prerequisite for it, and none particularly equips you either. All trainees undertake the same training, regardless of what they have done before.

At 15, it's difficult to judge where his aptitudes lie. The selection process is aptitude based, ie you've either "got it", or you haven't. There is also a structured interview (see other threads here), which draws on your experiences to date. That can be very tough for a younger applicant. I wouldn't have passed that at 21. At 28 when I took it, I was just talking about going to work.

There are plenty of other options within the industry that he should consider. Network rail run graduate and apprentice training programmes (engineering mostly), the big transport groups have management training schemes, and you can have a very good and lucrative career in the various maintenance disciplines. Operationally, signaling pays well, and offers an interesting and challenging alternative to driving. If he likes being around people, he may be better off as a guard, which again is a good job in its own right. Many of the best guards that I work with, have no interest in driving. It requires a very different skill set. Driving is something that a lot of us have come into by accident!

If he's an enthusiast, or is just looking for something worthwhile to do in the summer hols, I'd suggest that he has a go at volunteering on a heritage line. The actual "railway experience" won't count a jot, but he will find out if he's any aptitude for railway work, and whether he likes it or not. It's also a good way of learning general workplace skills, and will aid his maturity, as he will have to prove himself in an adult environment. That will help, whatever field he eventually ends up in. I'd recommend one of the more established operations - North York Moors, Ffestiniog, West Somerset, etc. I know there are all a distance from you, but they all have accommodation, and a working holiday (16+) could be very beneficial. It's something that I did as a teenager (and still do), never thinking that I would end up on the footplate for a living.

I've every sympathy for those above who mention talented youngsters stuck in duff jobs. Been there, done it after graduating in the middle of the last recession.