Taxpayers Alliance reckons DfT's HS2 figures must be flawed, too

[snail]

I am convinced that HS2 is needed. I trust that if and when the DfT answers the above questions this will be proved. If not, congestion will get worse.

Did you really have to quote the entire OP just to add a one line comment? What you said is perfectly clear without having to scroll through lines of text to get to it!

As for HS2, I'm not sure that it's needed but I certainly support the concept of HS rail in general. It will take a lot more than the biased ramblings of the Taxpayers Alliance to change my mind.

 

[ainsworth74]

The budget airlines were an unexpected complication though. There isn't anything likely to be competing much with rail in the future and with the real possibility of a significant decline in car travel, a large modal shift to rail is almost inevitable.

And of course budget airlines will probably end up going the way of all things in the not too distant future.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The budget airlines were an unexpected complication though. There isn't anything likely to be competing much with rail in the future and with the real possibility of a significant decline in car travel, a large modal shift to rail is almost inevitable.

Do I therefore take it that the future use of cars with different methods of propulsion to those currently the main source of carbon dioxide emissions will be a "lost hope" and it is fruitless in going forward with any future development of these ?

Perhaps we may all end up emulating the Amish community's chosen mode of travel.

 

[Goldfish62]

OTE=dggar;1226960]I'm a tax payer

the Taxpayers Alliance have never contacted me to see what I think about anything.

It's like the're a self appointed pressure group.[/QUOTE]

It's a far right pressure group with a track record of being anti public transport.

 

[Chapeltom]

Taxdodgers Alliance would be a more accurate name for them. They're just a bunch of rich Tory voters who want to pay zero tax if they think they can get away with it.

Oh dear. Not all those who support right wing economics (I'm a minarchist myself and would shrink taxes for all to virtually nil) are tax dodging Conservatives. I'm a student. I feel that a citizen of this country I have a right to know where MY money goes. Government has nothing, so it has to take consent to take money off me in the form of taxation. Taxation is just a redistribution of our funds which I do not agree with although minimal taxation is a necessary evil.

The economic argument behind HS2 needs to be discussed, are we getting value for money?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

OTE=dggar;1226960]I'm a tax payer

the Taxpayers Alliance have never contacted me to see what I think about anything.

It's like the're a self appointed pressure group.

It's a far right pressure group with a track record of being anti public transport.[/QUOTE]

I'd call them right wing (as that's what they are on the economic side of the political compass) rather than far right which most people associate with authoritarian states.

 

[dggar]

OTE=dggar;1226960]I'm a tax payer

the Taxpayers Alliance have never contacted me to see what I think about anything.

It's like the're a self appointed pressure group./QUOTE]



It's a far right pressure group with a track record of being anti public transport.

Just thought I'd make it clear that the bit in italics was an ironic comment.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's a far right pressure group with a track record of being anti public transport

Sounds to be an organization that a certain John Redwood would have given his total support to.

 

[johnnychips]

It is a minority group that the BBC have to dig out to comment, to counter accusations of left-wing bias. They do the same in education with some fundamentalist Christian who seems to represent nobody but himself, but his 'group' has a name. He's called Steve something.

 

[HSTEd]

I do believe that HS2's specifications are flawed in the extreme..... I think they overestimate the cost to an enormous extent with regards to the project price nearly doubling due to "risk factors".

Why would this project cost so much more per kilometre than any other major high speed railway project anywhere in the world?
Even Japan builds lines for considerably less than this and they have all the city centre stations and the like.

By inflating the capacity ocst of the Y network from below £20bn to above £30bn they seriously endanger the project as a whole. That comes in at more than £100m per mile over the entire network, and more than £150m over the Phase 1 section. This is approaching the cost an inner city tube line.

(Also they seem to project 105 200m captive sets on the network and I am having some difficulty seeing how that many woudl be needed even if they were to run every train doubled up... which begs the question as to why have 200m sets in the first place).

EDIT:
Accounting for inflation HS1 comes out at close to £100m/mile... which just seems far more expensive than any route elsewhere in the world, even in Japan they build lines for less than this.

 

[HH]

Why would this project cost so much more per kilometre than any other major high speed railway project anywhere in the world?

McNulty could tell you...

 

[starrymarkb]

Go on ... I give up. What exactly does that acronym in your quote actually stand for.

The best that I came up with was "Many overpriced and regional"...:roll:

It doesn't stand for anything, it's just a way of writing 'more' with enthusiasm by dodgy people online. In lexyboy's case he was using it sarcastically

A common refrain in the seedier sectors of the 'net, MOAR (always capitalized, often used with pictures of rioting Koreans) is a cry of lust intended to elicit more of whatever stimulated the lust.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It doesn't stand for anything, it's just a way of writing 'more' with enthusiasm by dodgy people online. In lexyboy's case he was using it sarcastically

Thanks for that....every day is a day to add more to ones knowledge..

 

[LexyBoy]

And we're supposed to trust your calculations?

I'd hoped the last sentence would make it clear that I was being sarcastic

As we say in science: "Data?! You can prove anything with data!". If you set out to demonstrate something, you can have all your numbers right and still come to the wrong conclusion (well, whatever you wished to prove) if your premises are wrong.

As for "moar", you need to get out less, you clearly don't waste enough time in the internet

 

[gordonthemoron]

they should be called the Tax Avoiders Alliance.

In anycase, the sooner IC services are removed from WCML south of litchfield, the sooner we can have a decent local service. The trent valley stopping service (Euston-Crewe) is woeful, no departures from Euston in the evening peak mean it's virtually impossible for residents of Litchfield, Tamworth or Nuneaton to commute to Northampton or MK by train