Tax your mobile

[cjp]

Are you ready for this new payment to the government?
mobile-networks-fivefold-increase-renting-spectrum

Mobile networks are facing a fivefold increase in the cost of renting spectrum from the government, amid warnings that the price hikes will be passed on to customers and hamper investment in 4G.

Annual licence fees will be ramped to £309m a year, up from the current annual total of £64.4m, under proposals published on Thursday by the telecoms regulator Ofcom. The fees apply to spectrum that was given away by the government in the early years of the mobile phone industry, before the 3G auction attracted bids worth billions.

The extra £250,000,000 the government wants will not come from the companies' pockets but will be passed straight on to us. And they know it.
Thanks Mr Cameron etal.

Anyone have any good news?

 

[bb21]

There is only so much they can realistically reduce public spending by, and the rest of the shortfall will have to come from somewhere.

Money doesn't fall out of the sky. No doubt the government will blame the telecoms industry for price increases, just like what they are doing with the energy suppliers.

 

[455driver]

The Government isnt running out of money, they must still have loads spare because how else can they keep increasing the foreign aid budget year on year?








Sits back and picks up popcorn!

 

[IanXC]

I read "The fees apply to spectrum that was given away by the government in the early years of the mobile phone industry" to mean this refers to spectrum the operators are supposed to be giving up in due course anyway? Surely it'll just hasten the move of the whole networks onto 3G spectrum?

 

[cjp]

Money doesn't fall out of the sky. No doubt the government will blame the telecoms industry for increases in prices, just like what they are doing with the energy suppliers.

It more as less does - printing more money or Quantitative Easing, as it now coyly known.
:cry:

 

[tbtc]

The extra £250,000,000 the government wants will not come from the companies' pockets but will be passed straight on to us. And they know it.
Thanks Mr Cameron etal.

I'm no fan of Cameron, but are you saying that it'd be better for the mobile phone companies to have the £250,000,000 (which, of course won't be used for profits - especially profits in foreign areas that Vodafone doesn't want to pay tax in)?

Where should the Government cut budgets by £250,000,000 in that case?

£250,000,000 could pay for a lot of CP5!

 

[SS4]

I'm not sure if the networks can afford to given the mobile market is practically saturated already and I've no problem as long as the increases only apply on 4G contracts. Unless the networks act like the energy industry and near simultaneously raise prices of course.

I reckon they'll recoup the money through bundling expensive contracts with the latest handsets and leave the bottom end of the market alone

 

[richw]

I've no problem as long as the increases only apply on 4G contracts.

The fees apply to spectrum that was given away by the government in the early years of the mobile phone industry, before the 3G auction attracted bids worth billions

So the increase will effect those using antique phones in theory. EE use very old spectrum from what I can gather for their non 4G services.

 

[jon0844]

It's an increase on old spectrum for 2G, which might one day be refarmed anyway isn't it?

And given the markups, the extra cost to the networks isn't likely to be that much and certainly won't add much to the end user cost when people are on tariffs that give nn minutes and texts anyway.

The big con will come when the EU bans roaming charges and the operators will up all of their UK charges to ensure they can compensate. Obviously they'll do this almost simultaneously, due to them being so competitive (sarcastic!).

 

[Clip]

I'm no fan of Cameron, but are you saying that it'd be better for the mobile phone companies to have the £250,000,000 (which, of course won't be used for profits - especially profits in foreign areas that Vodafone doesn't want to pay tax in)?

Where should the Government cut budgets by £250,000,000 in that case?

£250,000,000 could pay for a lot of CP5!

A very good point which people fail to remember. Vodaphone have a very long history of not paying a decent amount of tax in this country so why shouldnt they be hit with a higher increase on the bandwidth they got for FREE all those years ago

 

[bb21]

A very good point which people fail to remember. Vodaphone have a very long history of not paying a decent amount of tax in this country so why shouldnt they be hit with a higher increase on the bandwidth they got for FREE all those years ago

Do you really believe that these increases will not filter down to the end users?

 

[jon0844]

The operators already have a good thing going with increasing tariffs for 4G and all aimed to keep the avenue revenue per user steady, or increasing.

I doubt prices will go up much from this, if at all. Especially as increases above a certain amount would allow everyone in a contract to end the contract early.

 

[Clip]

Do you really believe that these increases will not filter down to the end users?

The amount of money that it equates to per user per provider is so small you wouldn't notice it anyway. And as said above any major increase would see people switch provider anyway due to clauses in the contract for both parties.

Are you really going to be bothered by 20pee per month on your bill?

 

[jon0844]

Indeed. As soon as an operator increases charges by a certain amount, they automatically allow people to cancel and NO operator would want to do that when people are signed up for up to 24 months.

It has happened when operators have messed up, in fact earlier this year it happened with Orange misjudging the RPI and increasing charges above it - allowing some eagle eyed subscribers to get out of contracts with many months left to run. They could then sign up for a far cheaper SIM-only contract instead, keeping their extremely expensive mobile phone.

Yes, they might adjust the tariffs from now on - but if they want to remain competitive then it's a gamble. Sure, the big boys might get together cartel style, but the likes of Three and the MVNOs suddenly get even more appealing.

I think that we're pretty fortunate in having VERY good competition in the UK for mobile phones, even if many people are lazy and stick with the big boys and pay through the roof (especially when buying an iPhone). I've always been disappointed that people don't properly shop around, especially when Three has the fastest data speeds and many MVNOs have excellent coverage because of the operator they use to run the network - but far cheaper calls/texts.

 

[anme]

The big con will come when the EU bans roaming charges and the operators will up all of their UK charges to ensure they can compensate. Obviously they'll do this almost simultaneously, due to them being so competitive (sarcastic!).

The day the EU bans roaming charges will be a very happy day!

 

[richw]

The day the EU bans roaming charges will be a very happy day!

I think I've commented previously but maybe not. When I did some Roaming on mine, I had to take a seat when I opened my bill and saw the roaming costs. £0.00 was charged Tesco took the amounts off of my allowance.

 

[jon0844]

The day the EU bans roaming charges will be a very happy day!

Yes, but I do then expect we'll see an increase in UK charges to compensate, as well as many bundles of minutes/texts/data only applying to the UK.

So when roaming, you won't pay more - but will pay the normal tariff rate (a rate that most people won't pay if they don't exceed their bundles) and I bet these go up quite a bit.

Like Ryanair, I expect the operators will seek every loophole and way to keep one step ahead - knowing the EU will be slow to act. I also think that every operator already knows and accepts the inevitable, but it's all about making the most of it.

It's good that Three has at least axed roaming charges (with some caveats) wherever it has a network, even though you don't actually have to roam ON the Three network in that country, and T-Mobile in the USA has how axed roaming worldwide - which is a VERY big deal, although I don't know the full ins and outs of this.

(Three does disallow tethering when roaming, as well as limiting you to 25GB per month - although I doubt the latter will particularly affect many people)

I think I've commented previously but maybe not. When I did some Roaming on mine, I had to take a seat when I opened my bill and saw the roaming costs. £0.00 was charged Tesco took the amounts off of my allowance.

Yes you did, and I'm still amazed to this day. It had to have been a mistake, as you'd have expected the media AND Tesco to have made a big deal of this!

 

[bb21]

The amount of money that it equates to per user per provider is so small you wouldn't notice it anyway. And as said above any major increase would see people switch provider anyway due to clauses in the contract for both parties.

Are you really going to be bothered by 20pee per month on your bill?

That is if they would only pass on the actual cost to the customers. Customers who are switched on only ever represent a small proportion anyway.

I guess I am just the sceptical kind when it comes to trusting certain businesses.

I've always been disappointed that people don't properly shop around, especially when Three has the fastest data speeds and many MVNOs have excellent coverage because of the operator they use to run the network - but far cheaper calls/texts.

No, thank you. Not after experiencing Three's appalling customer services.

 

[jon0844]

No, thank you. Not after experiencing Three's appalling customer services.

It's a shame that a poor previous experience would prevent you from benefitting from what is clearly the best data network (contrary to what EE might want you to believe, although EE is probably a fairly close second) in any area that has Three coverage.

I can't think of any real reason to need to speak to customer services on any network these days. Most things can be done online, or even via Twitter and email, so having some dodgy call centre in Mumbai where people can't actually help you are things of the past.

People also moan (moaned) about TalkTalk, but my fixed broadband has been fine. When the speed dropped, I went on their forum and had someone sort out the profile and then keep checking it was okay for the next days (before offering to switch to a faster, but less reliable, profile if I wanted). When local workers cut through the phone line, they were able to get an engineer out the very same day and communicate via text.

Again, why would you bother with calling customer services?

 

[richw]

Three are brilliant as long as you don't need to speak to them, that is where it all goes wrong.

 

[jon0844]

Three are brilliant as long as you don't need to speak to them, that is where it all goes wrong.

As said above, hopefully you'll never need to - besides perhaps calling to cancel your contract.

Network faults can be dealt with via Twitter - usually giving your postcode is enough (but sometimes you'll be asked to give your phone number via a private message).

Upgrades and add-ons can be processed via My3, as well as top-ups for prepay.

(The same hopefully applies to the other networks too, and I'd be wary of signing any contract that doesn't let you deal with things in any way other than going on hold for hours, or having to write letters etc).

 

[richw]

Yes you did, and I'm still amazed to this day. It had to have been a mistake, as you'd have expected the media AND Tesco to have made a big deal of this!

Agree they would have published it. Just looking I am on a capped contract, which appears to have very different T+Cs to their normal contract.

It does seem an error, as according to their website I shouldn't have been able to use any thing without topping up my capped contract first.

Pay monthly Capped customers who joined before 8th August 2013
You can only use your phone abroad if you have top-up on your account. You can top-up in the UK or abroad by calling 4444 free from your Tesco Mobile phone.

My only thought to this is that I have at some point a top up added, but I have no recollection unless its been there since I went to France in September 2012.

 

[Roverman]

The fees apply to spectrum that was given away by the government in the early years of the mobile phone industry, before the 3G auction attracted bids worth billions.

As far as I can see that its the Government's loss if they were too THICK to see the business potential in the Mobile Phone Industry pre 3G. Maybe instead of filling the House of Commons with their chums they should fill it with people who know something about business?

They should just write off these 'losses' (I don't agree that they are a loss in the true sense) and instead concentrate on making sure they get the best possible price for future contracts. This would involve appointing someone who knows about tendering and buying?

 

[jon0844]

It does seem an error, as according to their website I shouldn't have been able to use any thing without topping up my capped contract first.

My advice is that from now on you never mention having got free roaming again!!

As far as I can see that its the Government's loss if they were too THICK to see the business potential in the Mobile Phone Industry pre 3G. Maybe instead of filling the House of Commons with their chums they should fill it with people who know something about business?

They should just write off these 'losses' (I don't agree that they are a loss in the true sense) and instead concentrate on making sure they get the best possible price for future contracts. This would involve appointing someone who knows about tendering and buying?

I don't think anyone could have predicted the massive growth of mobile phones in the 80s and 90s. For one thing, they were hugely expensive and massive, so hardly mass market.

Even when prepay came out, it took a while to explode - and most of that was SMS, which is something that few people ever saw being that important or popular. Indeed, SMS was free on Orange when the network launched in April 1994 (followed by a nominal monthly fee to have SMS sending turned on).

Can you imagine the outrage if any Government (I doubt it's just the UK) had priced things much higher? For one, it might have prevented consumer tariffs and pay as you go from ever being launched - or certainly massively delayed.

We'd then be talking about mobile phones being tools just for the rich, used only by those who can afford to travel on HS2...

Anyway, when the spectrum is refarmed for use for 3G or 4G, I can't see any issue in re-evaluating the cost.

 

[richw]

My advice is that from now on you never mention having got free roaming again!!

I'm doing a delivery to France out Thursday night back Friday night end of this week. I will see what happens on my bill when I come back. Another observation last month I phoned an 0845 number for about 20 mins, and they haven't charged for that neither

 

[island]

The day the EU bans roaming charges will be a very happy day!

It's already cheaper to text while roaming than while at home on several networks.

 

[bb21]

Again, why would you bother with calling customer services?

It was about a faulty phone. They first refused to acknowledge that it was faulty, then agreed to send me a replacement, which never arrived, and after many phonecalls, sent me a reconditioned one. After much protesting and threats to take them to trading standards, they finally agreed to send me a replacement new phone, which again broke down less than two months later.

When it came to cancelling the contract at the end of the period, it also took lots of effort from my end to get it done.

After that, I swore not to use them again. In the last few years I have had vodafone, O2 and Orange contracts, and none of their customer service department were as inept as Three.

Of course I can only speak from experience, but my experience and some of my colleagues' strongly suggest that Three is a company to steer clear of.

 

[jon0844]

It was about a faulty phone. They first refused to acknowledge that it was faulty, then agreed to send me a replacement, which never arrived, and after many phonecalls, sent me a reconditioned one. After much protesting and threats to take them to trading standards, they finally agreed to send me a replacement new phone, which again broke down less than two months later.

Fair enough - I hadn't considered that as a reason to call a network as I never buy phones on contract. Always cheaper to buy SIM-free and go for a SIM only contract. (Cheaper as in total cost of ownership, not the up front cost, obviously).

Of course, that does mean having to deal with whoever you bought the phone from - although, touch wood, I've never had a phone fail on me.

 

[Clip]

As far as I can see that its the Government's loss if they were too THICK to see the business potential in the Mobile Phone Industry pre 3G. Maybe instead of filling the House of Commons with their chums they should fill it with people who know something about business?

They should just write off these 'losses' (I don't agree that they are a loss in the true sense) and instead concentrate on making sure they get the best possible price for future contracts. This would involve appointing someone who knows about tendering and buying?

Did you think before you wrote that at all? As has been said no one could have imagined the rise of the phone as it is and surely clawing back money from the companies that have been getting nicely fat is a good idea rather than giving them more?

 

[D365]

Did you think before you wrote that at all? As has been said no one could have imagined the rise of the phone as it is and surely clawing back money from the companies that have been getting nicely fat is a good idea rather than giving them more?

Isn't what some others are saying, that the phone companies will charge more to 'compensate' themselves?
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Three are brilliant as long as you don't need to speak to them, that is where it all goes wrong.

I can understand...