• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Taking The Mick!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ferret

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2009
Messages
4,131
As a means of tempering the 'Rail Staff did wrong' type threads, I thought I'd share with you the stories of three incidents I've encountered this week!

Yesterday, I was working a morning train, heading north. I was doing my first ticket check when I came to a man. He blatantly admitted he had no ticket, and no means to pay and just offered his name and address for an Unpaid Fares Notice. It's as if the railway now does a 'travel now, pay later' service - like the deals that DFS do or something. When challenged, he admitted he 'does this lots'. Well, his luck as run out this time! I still can't believe the barefaced cheek though - try doing that on the buses or the airlines!

Just when I thought barefaced cheek had reached it's limits, along comes a fine pair today. First of all, apparently if you have a baby and pushchair, you're entitled to an upgrade to First Class. It says so on the website apparently! Now, if there's one thing I hate in life, it's a liar. 'There's no seats'. Well, they hadn't looked very hard - there were about 30 vacant seats on the train at this point. And if anyone can find me where it says on any TOC website that having a baby means a free first class upgrade then I'll happily eat my hat. Why do people think they can use their children in this way? Here's a top tip - don't try bullying your way into First Class like that - it'll only lead to a Byelaw prosecution. What made it worse, was the women concerned were well dressed and well spoken! But still bullying liars who threw a hissy fit when they couldn't get their own way.

And then, the coup de grace. As the train was getting busier, following some cancellations courtesy of bad weather, a family of four decided they'd occupy someone else's reserved seat. Of course, the rightful occupants of those seats were another family - and they wanted their seats. So, allow me to describe blatant liar number 2. I had an assistant today - he'd checked a couple of carriages of tickets for me as we were busy. When the family with reservations boarded my train, they asked lying Navy man if he'd kindly move. This guy refused to move saying 'the Guard told me to sit here'. So, somewhat put out, the reservation holders come and find me and my colleague. They tell me what has been said, and my colleague is aghast. So, off I go and ask them to move. He repeats his allegation about having been told to sit there! It was only when my colleague got involved that this bloke realised he was flogging a dead horse. I felt sorry for the reservation holders, who were clearly embarassed despite having done nothing wrong. But what really annoyed me was that this liar was a member of our Armed Forces. Now, I really expect better from the people who serve our Country. His conduct was an utter disgrace, and yet he has the cheek to lecture me on how he thinks I shouldn't be a Train Manager. In the end, I informed him that I wasn't prepared to talk to him any longer, and walked off to leave him with his own impotent rage. I'm afraid I had something else to deal with - ah yes, an unpaid fares notice for yet another gent who claimed to have forgotten his railcard.

I've remarked to colleagues recently that the general public seem to be getting worse. They all agree!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

YorkshireBear

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
9,665
i dont work in rail yet but i do hospitality part time and public do my head in.

I dont think ill work in this part of rail industry ever just because if that happened to me id loose my temper. Good on you for just keeping calm and telling them to move..
 

scotsman

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2010
Messages
3,252
Well said that man!

Don't ask me what makes them think it's any different on Steam Railways!

Again, a well dressed, well spoken woman and her son board with their bikes 40 minutes prior to departure from a station with a booking office.

I go through to check upon departure. "Tickets please" "I don't have one" - she soon did! My excess book didn't have a bike option, I just scored it out and wrote 'BIKE' on top - there was no way she was getting away with those either!

I'm given a tenner, I go to get change and the train stops at her stop while I'm getting it - she comes down and says, "Can you give me a hand with my bikes when you're finished with that?"

Some people make me wonder....
 
Joined
8 Sep 2010
Messages
304
Location
Hornchurch
Ill admit that i've had the odd penalty fare notice, before i worked for NEXA, but that was the old days - I really do hate people like this these days.
 

ralphchadkirk

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
5,754
Location
Essex
o get change and the train stops at her stop while I'm getting it - she comes down and says, "Can you give me a hand with my bikes when you're finished with that?"

Some people make me wonder....

That's fair enough. It's a customer service industry, and if a customer asks for a hand with their luggage, or indeed bikes, then you should oblige unless it interferes with safety-critical duties.
 

scotsman

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2010
Messages
3,252
That's fair enough. It's a customer service industry, and if a customer asks for a hand with their luggage, or indeed bikes, then you should oblige unless it interferes with safety-critical duties.

Aye, I would have too. It just surprised me that she expected help with her bikes when she had no intention of purchasing a ticket unless challenged.
 

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,806
That's fair enough. It's a customer service industry, and if a customer asks for a hand with their luggage, or indeed bikes, then you should oblige unless it interferes with safety-critical duties.

Why?

We are specifically told NOT to lift anything belonging to passengers, as if we injure ourselves, it's our own fault. The TOC will not back us up if we injure our back / fall over carrying a 60-80 lb suitcase full of books for some student with a hangover.

If a passenger can't lift it themselves, they shouldn't have brought it. (I am excluding the elderly / infirm / disabled from this, but even these need to think about what they are packing and asking someone to lift on their behalf. Two small cases may be more manageable than one massive heavy one)
 

Ferret

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2009
Messages
4,131
We're not all bad, as usual there's a minority ruining it for the rest of us :|

I should point out that these 3 are the worst of the minority! I can say I've encountered some lovely people this week. The old adage is true though - it's the worst that you remember....
 

MidnightFlyer

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,856
Ferret, what was the outcome of the mother/baby first class event?

I do know SWT will give expectant mothers an upgrade to First for free if the train is full and standing, but I'm 100% that what she said was rubbish too!

Do you mind me asking what company you work for? (If you'd rather not say in public, just PM me, or tell me to mind my own business, I'm just curious :D).

Any people nowadays (as opposed to just 'chavs' etc) seem to try to get away with stuff, like your first two examples, and unfortunately people trying to fool Guards etc, or fare evade seems to be becoming more common.
 

Squaddie

Member
Joined
6 Dec 2009
Messages
1,072
Location
London
I've remarked to colleagues recently that the general public seem to be getting worse. They all agree!
Perhaps there is a correlation between the behaviour of the general public on board trains and the way in which train companies treat their customers? Just a thought.
 
Joined
21 Oct 2010
Messages
1,040
Location
Leeds
Why?

We are specifically told NOT to lift anything belonging to passengers, as if we injure ourselves, it's our own fault. The TOC will not back us up if we injure our back / fall over carrying a 60-80 lb suitcase full of books for some student with a hangover.

If a passenger can't lift it themselves, they shouldn't have brought it. (I am excluding the elderly / infirm / disabled from this, but even these need to think about what they are packing and asking someone to lift on their behalf. Two small cases may be more manageable than one massive heavy one)

Yep, 'if u cant hack it dont pack it'
 

33056

Established Member
Joined
12 Nov 2007
Messages
2,424
Location
On a train somewhere in Europe
Saw a guy get chinged 40 Euros for a short local journey on a train in Germany on Monday - no excuse as there were plenty of notices stuck in various places pointing out the penalty fare.

Got the impression that he got caught out by the fact that the trains are normally modern DMUs which run round DOO, unfortunately this was a loco-hauled substitute which has to have a guard and most German guards are usually quite keen when it comes to checking tickets :lol:

My German is not too good but I got the impression that he asked for the normal fare to wherever it was he was going but was told that he had to pay the 40 Euro (which he hadn't got) so out came the ID card from which his details were obtained. I have no idea whether DB give the miscreant a chance to pay the fine or whether the matter goes straight to a court.
 

Squaddie

Member
Joined
6 Dec 2009
Messages
1,072
Location
London
The phrase 2 wrongs dont make a right comes to mind here.
I agree, and I would never behave in the way that the OP describes.

But if the TOCs didn't treat their customers with utter contempt the way they do, with sky-high fares, impenetrable conditions, squalid and overcrowded trains and frequently unpleasant staff, then the customers might just be more inclined to behave a little better.
 

ralphchadkirk

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
5,754
Location
Essex
Why?

We are specifically told NOT to lift anything belonging to passengers, as if we injure ourselves, it's our own fault. The TOC will not back us up if we injure our back / fall over carrying a 60-80 lb suitcase full of books for some student with a hangover.

If a passenger can't lift it themselves, they shouldn't have brought it. (I am excluding the elderly / infirm / disabled from this, but even these need to think about what they are packing and asking someone to lift on their behalf. Two small cases may be more manageable than one massive heavy one)

I'm not talking about from a TOC's point of view ;) Scotsman works on a heritage railway where people don't usually have luggage, or 80lb backpacks.
 

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,806
To be fair, the vast majority of passengers are no hassle, a few can be a pleasure to meet (in any circumstances), and there are a few who have major personality problems and shouldn't be allowed out. They are people after all.

Those of us who work in the rail industry also know that there are some of our colleagues who are not the shining customer-centred paragons of virtue that we would like them to be.

Sounds like you had a bad day, Ferret. Just remember, "you shouldn't have joined if you can't take a joke", as my old Sergeant used to say. Tomorrow is another day, and think that the majority of tickets you clipped today were correct, and the reason you were looking at them was to find the ones you found.

Keep smiling!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
But if the TOCs didn't treat their customers with utter contempt the way they do, with sky-high fares, impenetrable conditions, squalid and overcrowded trains and frequently unpleasant staff, then the customers might just be more inclined to behave a little better.

To take apart your post:
- A lot of advanced tickets are ridiculously cheap -I wouldn't call £10 Cardiff-London, or £4 Gatwick - Swindon sky high. Sure, that comes with conditions, but you get what you pay for.
- The conditions are simple enough that thousands of passengers who I deal with manage to understand them and comply with them. There are plenty of staff available to ask questions of if there is any uncertainty, and most of them actually know what they are talking about (even if the answer is not the one the passenger wished to hear).
- My TOC has recently spent millions refurbishing it's sets, and outside of peak times there is plenty of spare capacity. Even in peak times, people tend to cluster in certain carriages, rather than sperading through the train.
- The TOC has just spent millions on Customer Care courses for it's staff, and personally I have had many letter of commendation from customers.

Despite all of this, in the past six months I have been assaulted, threatened, spat at and subjected to verbal abuse, and have had to deal numerous passengers of the type that Ferret described.

Some people are nasty, rude and arrogant, and some are scum that shouldn't be allowed out. Stop making excuses for them, Squaddie. They manage to make enough excuses of their own.
 
Last edited:

Geezertronic

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2009
Messages
4,124
Location
Birmingham
I was chatting to a Virgin Trains TM a few months ago as he had just finished dealing with someone who was hiding in the bog on a 390, and he was telling me the places on the 390 where they find fare dodgers, most notably in the back end of the trailing vehicle and hiding in the bogs and between the seats

In a separate incident, another TM threw a guy off at Watford Junction for not having a ticket and refusing to pay.
 

scotsman

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2010
Messages
3,252
I'm not talking about from a TOC's point of view ;) Scotsman works on a heritage railway where people don't usually have luggage, or 80lb backpacks.

Quite! I'm with Virgin Trains on this - "Bring no more than you can comfortably carry"

When I was last up there (and that was a few months ago now!) I was the only person who brought a suitcase!

==EDIT==

I meant to add: I'm more than happy to help with bikes or wheelchairs etc. I've never had a situation where me or the Guard have refused to help with something.
 

Ferret

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2009
Messages
4,131
Sounds like you had a bad day, Ferret. Just remember, "you shouldn't have joined if you can't take a joke", as my old Sergeant used to say. Tomorrow is another day, and think that the majority of tickets you clipped today were correct, and the reason you were looking at them was to find the ones you found.

Keep smiling!

Oh I shall! I'll even be back to do it all again tomorrow!:lol: I think it's worthwhile to just point out on here the other side of the coin now and again though - the railway has its faults for sure, and this site does highlight some now and then. Nice to get a balanced picture though I think!

To take apart your post:
- A lot of advanced tickets are ridiculously cheap -I wouldn't call £10 Cardiff-London, or £4 Gatwick - Swindon sky high. Sure, that comes with conditions, but you get what you pay for.
- The conditions are simple enough that thousands of passengers who I deal with manage to understand them and comply with them. There are plenty of staff available to ask questions of if there is any uncertainty, and most of them actually know what they are talking about (even if the answer is not the one the passenger wished to hear).
- My TOC has recently spent millions refurbishing it's sets, and outside of peak times there is plenty of spare capacity. Even in peak times, people tend to cluster in certain carriages, rather than sperading through the train.
- The TOC has just spent millions on Customer Care courses for it's staff, and personally I have had many letter of commendation from customers.

Despite all of this, in the past six months I have been assaulted, threatened, spat at and subjected to verbal abuse, and have had to deal numerous passengers of the type that Ferret described.

Some people are nasty, rude and arrogant, and some are scum that shouldn't be allowed out. Stop making excuses for them, Squaddie. They manage to make enough excuses of their own.

Yes, it's amazing how people will see the odd person standing and assume the train is full. That was the trap our friends with the baby fell into. If they'd have used their eyes, they'd have spotted a half empty carriage that even had a wheelchair space they could pinch for their short journey. As it was, First Class was all the more appealing if they could bully their way in. Oddly enough, being rude & obnoxious in those circumstances does tend to elicit a curt response along the lines of 'you can either pay the upgrade or move into standard accomodation'...

As for Advance tickets - I saw some today who were nearly 4 hours late - and still expected to use them on my service. The words 'booked train only' are not hard to understand, are they?! Mind you, even the staff get it wrong - I was with an RPI this morning and he missed an invalid off-peak ticket. Needless to say I've spent much of the day taking the p### out of him for that! I thought RPIs knew a thing or two about tickets:lol:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was chatting to a Virgin Trains TM a few months ago as he had just finished dealing with someone who was hiding in the bog on a 390, and he was telling me the places on the 390 where they find fare dodgers, most notably in the back end of the trailing vehicle and hiding in the bogs and between the seats

In a separate incident, another TM threw a guy off at Watford Junction for not having a ticket and refusing to pay.

One of my colleagues sat down in FC to read a book the other week thinking the carriage was deserted. He then glanced to his right to see some bloke hunched up in the luggage rack!:lol:
 
Last edited:

Nevasleep

Member
Joined
3 Oct 2010
Messages
79
Well buses and planes have 'gates', hence why the number of people 'trying it on' is so much lower.
I wish it could be possible to install ticket gates at every station, which means fewer evaders, troublemakers, and ticket checks for passengers. For railcards, add a magnetic strip or RFID chip.
 

Eng274

Member
Joined
19 Aug 2010
Messages
796
To echo the OP's comments; although I don't work for a transport industry as such, I did work for a pub chain at an airport, which equally deals with nutjob passengers.

Some of the barking mad situations we found ourselves in when dealing with the lovely air-travelling public beggared belief, though some of the airlines never did them or us any favours. Some royal clangers include:

- A pleasant oaf shouting at a fellow member of staff after he had abandoned his suitcase and laptop at one of our tables, and after a 30-minute ramble around the shops wondered why the security staff had removed it to be destroyed! He got it back, more's the pity.

- Two swear words at any airport - FLIGHT VOUCHERS. Not the concept, but the way passengers seem unable to understand the idea that "the voucher says you cannot buy alcohol with this, so that'll be £3.49 sterling please". And that it's our fault the airline's stingey voucher can't buy anything more than a packet of nuts and a bottle of water.

- Being requested to share my table when I'm on my break, when it was busy i didn't mind too much. But don't strike up a conversation. Asking me to get up and wipe your table while I'm eating my much needed lunch is a no-no as well.

- Sleeping. HSE and BAA do not allow sleeping in pubs, apart from it not looking good, if the fire alarm goes off we are too busy directing conscious passengers to the fire exits to give wake-up calls to the sleeping beauties.

I know this is way off the original topic, but I am just sharing my experiences of working with the public. There were good times as well, hen parties were always a welcome sight :) and my single biggest tip was £9.72, which for a nonchalant, miserable-looking man with a fully buttoned-up shirt was not bad going I think.

I always make a note of being pleasant to ticket inspectors when i use the train, like when they announce at the entrance to the carriage "all tickets ready please" i do just that, unlike the inevitable nitwit beside me who fumbles for a full 2 minutes while the checker stands waiting.
 

mumrar

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2008
Messages
2,650
Location
Redditch
Ferret, returning briefly to your First Class incident, word of mouth and the 'Chinese Whispers' style misunderstanding is probably to blame. Standard class season ticket holders travelling with First Capital Connect, South West
Trains or South Eastern are permitted free First Class upgrades providing there are no standard class seats. This info comes from the forum for MoneySavingExpert by the way.
 

Ferret

Established Member
Joined
22 Jan 2009
Messages
4,131
Ferret, returning briefly to your First Class incident, word of mouth and the 'Chinese Whispers' style misunderstanding is probably to blame. Standard class season ticket holders travelling with First Capital Connect, South West
Trains or South Eastern are permitted free First Class upgrades providing there are no standard class seats. This info comes from the forum for MoneySavingExpert by the way.

In fairness, that applies to every TOC anyway - it's in the conditions of carriage that you can sit in FC with the permission of the on train staff if there are no seats in standard. If there are seats in standard however....

In any case, I'm not sure it was a misunderstanding. They were blatantly trying it on having marched towards FC on the platform, walking past standard in the process where there were empty seats. Usual bluster as well along the lines of 'we're gonna report you'. Hmmm, feel free to write in and tell us you've committed a byelaw offence! I must say, I'd love to see the looks on their faces if they were expecting a letter of apology through and received Court Summonses instead!
 
Last edited:

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
9,761
Location
Central Belt
Well buses and planes have 'gates', hence why the number of people 'trying it on' is so much lower.
I wish it could be possible to install ticket gates at every station, which means fewer evaders, troublemakers, and ticket checks for passengers. For railcards, add a magnetic strip or RFID chip.

The ticket checks will still be needed it just hopefully wouldn't take as long otherwise if it was left to the gates you would see an increase of one or more of the following.

Wrong Discounts
People buying the cheapest ticket to get through the gates.

You could travel from Glasgow to london for £2 if on train checks were stopped because of assuming the barrier will stop people. I know it helps £1 is still a cheap shopping trolley but I know it has reduced the number supermarkets lose.
 

TheBigD

Established Member
Joined
19 Nov 2008
Messages
2,043
Ferret, returning briefly to your First Class incident, word of mouth and the 'Chinese Whispers' style misunderstanding is probably to blame. Standard class season ticket holders travelling with First Capital Connect, South West
Trains or South Eastern are permitted free First Class upgrades providing there are no standard class seats. This info comes from the forum for MoneySavingExpert by the way.

http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/train-tickets-and-rail-offers/season-tickets.htm

Customers holding a valid one month or longer Season Ticket may make their normal daily journey in First Class at weekends at no extra cost on First TransPennine Express services
 

sheff1

Established Member
Joined
24 Dec 2009
Messages
6,059
Location
Sheffield
Good thread. No point in boring people with the things I agree with, so just a couple of comments on things I don't:

If a passenger can't lift it themselves, they shouldn't have brought it. (I am excluding the elderly / infirm / disabled from this, but even these need to think about what they are packing and asking someone to lift on their behalf. Two small cases may be more manageable than one massive heavy one)

They should book the assisted travel which all (?) TOCs provide.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wish it could be possible to install ticket gates at every station, which means fewer evaders, troublemakers, and ticket checks for passengers.

Not gates, but the ticket validators used in many continental countries. Gates inconvenience many genuine travellers but do not deter serious evaders. On train checks are much better deterrents.
 
Last edited:

Flamingo

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Messages
6,806
Sheff1, assisted travel still involves some poor sod having to lift the bag. If it's an unmanned station, this is the on-board train-crew. On-board train-crew are instructed not to lift heavy luggage as there is a risk of injury. You see where this is going? :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top