Taking advantage of the Privatisation Model

[PRS]

Its fair to say that London to Birmingham passengers have had a good deal from Privatisation. Three TOCs competing on two lines as well as Nat Express and Megabus offering cheap road transport alternatives. Off-peak travel generally costs no more than £20 return between the two cities.

How else could the model be used to generate competition between the capital and other big cities?

Could EMT run services on the MML via Sheffield to Manchester to compete with the WCML and likewise to Leeds to compete with the ECML?

I'm guessing capacity, rolling stock and a host of other problems would make it difficult but surely the DfT should introduce competition on the network where the infrastructure allows it?

 

[lm321412]

Its fair to say that London to Birmingham passengers have had a good deal from Privatisation. Three TOCs competing on two lines as well as Nat Express and Megabus offering cheap road transport alternatives. Off-peak travel generally costs no more than £20 return between the two cities.

How else could the model be used to generate competition between the capital and other big cities?

Could EMT run services on the MML via Sheffield to Manchester to compete with the WCML and likewise to Leeds to compete with the ECML?

I'm guessing capacity, rolling stock and a host of other problems would make it difficult but surely the DfT should introduce competition on the network where the infrastructure allows it?

Ideally, this is what should happen.

However, DafT regulations prevent this from happening unfortunately and therefore we are never actually going to really benefit from what privitisation should have actually provided us with.

 

[Jdrowlands]

It's not really 'true' competition like on the ECML as the options other than the main InterCity West Coast operator are slower. Face it's, who's going to get on a LM stopping service when you can go express with Virgin?

Although I would be tempted to go to Marylebone if I could catch one of the loco-hauled trains.

 

[exile]

It's not really 'true' competition like on the ECML as the options other than the main InterCity West Coast operator are slower. Face it's, who's going to get on a LM stopping service when you can go express with Virgin?

Although I would be tempted to go to Marylebone if I could catch one of the loco-hauled trains.

Well, I'm happy to use LM trains if they're offering cheap deals and are still faster than a coach.

 

[Greenback]

Have even Birmingham passengers received such a good deal? What if you can't travel off peak?! What about the increased taxpayer support that everyone in Birmingham also contributes to?!

There are two extreme views on how the railway system should move forward. The first is based on unlimited competition. No doubt this would benefit some people in some areas, but under this system you can kiss goodbye to interavailable tickets and standard ticket types (such as they are) across the country. I can't see how rovers and rangers could survive either.

At the other extreme there is central control, whether nationalised or not. This would preserve interavailabiltiy, with a centrally planned timetable and a national livery - perhaps a bit like the London Buses model.

Whilst the former model may appear to be attractive to some for several reasons, I doubt it would last long. The natrual market pressures would ensure merger and co-operation between smaller train companies, negating much of the perceived benefits of competition - perhaps like the rest of the UK bus industry.

All in all, I doubt the majority of rail travellers in places outside the major conurbations would benefit much from increased competition.

 

[Lampshade]

Face it's, who's going to get on a LM stopping service when you can go express with Virgin?

Me for one. Stoke - London and back for £14.85 (plus a CDR from Manchester) when it's nigh on £50 with Virgin.

 

[sulli_os]

I've always thought that (upon MML upgrade completion) there should be Leeds - London via ECML and Leeds - London via MML, ideally with both services timed to take roughly the same length of time.

Similarly, extend the Derby - London fast/semi-fast to Manchester via Stoke etc.

 

[yorksrob]

It's a shame the route through Bakewell was closed. An Inter-City type service over this route would probably be fast enough to relieve the West Coast mainline to an extent whilst also providing good connectivity between Manchester and the East Midlands.

I gather they would have to do something about capacity constraints on the MML though.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It's not really 'true' competition like on the ECML as the options other than the main InterCity West Coast operator are slower. Face it's, who's going to get on a LM stopping service when you can go express with Virgin?

Thousands of people choose to every day. If a company cant be competitive on time then they have to offer other reasons to travel with them, often its price but then customer service can be a factor too. Chiltern traded on punctuality for a long time (I guess they still do?) while also doing very will in the student market and the leisure market where price was the biggest deal. A lot of students and families seem to have moved over to the New Street - Northampton - Euston stoppers which have had to undercut the Chiltern prices. Chiltern are now moving towards trading on speed, when EG3 is complete then there will be about 15 minutes difference in the journey times. Virgin will still have a lot more express trains running every day but when people are making their mind up on which ticket to buy it really does give them food for thought.

This does mean that people travelling between the capital and the second city are spoiled for choice. They can go for the absolute fastest journey, they can go for the absolute cheapest journey or they can go for something in the middle if that means they think they are getting the best of both worlds. I guess this means I agree with the OPs premise, and that London to Birmingham has benefited from privatisation in a lot of ways.

 

[Yew]

It's a shame the route through Bakewell was closed. An Inter-City type service over this route would probably be fast enough to relieve the West Coast mainline to an extent whilst also providing good connectivity between Manchester and the East Midlands.

I gather they would have to do something about capacity constraints on the MML though.

maybe if you extended existing services, so no extra mml paths are needed?

 

[yorksrob]

There is that semi-fast to Derby mentioned above which would do the trick. It might be better to shuffle some of the intermediate stops so the Manchester service was a bit faster.