T3 possession question (sorry if wrong section)

[ATTERO2016]

Hello all
I am racking my brains for days and searching many rule book modules to find a definition of a T3 possession.
What I am specifically looking for is giving up possessions for booked services.
My impression of a T3 is you cannot give up a possession to pass booked services as a T3 is an uninterupted section of line for works.....to give up and retake the possession surely makes the blockage a "line blockage with additional protection"?
If anyone can help me I would appreciate it alot

 

[mcmad]

Hello all
I am racking my brains for days and searching many rule book modules to find a definition of a T3 possession.
What I am specifically looking for is giving up possessions for booked services.
My impression of a T3 is you cannot give up a possession to pass booked services as a T3 is an uninterupted section of line for works.....to give up and retake the possession surely makes the blockage a "line blockage with additional protection"?
If anyone can help me I would appreciate it alot

Its fairly commonly done, mainly midweek night possessions for the passage of things like RHTT trains. Its always (in Sc Zone) published in the traffic remarks of the possession, often only the affected line, as Possession to be given up for passage of 1S25 on the Down line at 03:15 or similar. Where it occurs near the start or end of the possession it often isn't worth taking it again.

 

[D Foster]

A T3 Possession - definition (my explanation - NOT official)... From the Possession Limit Board at one end of the T3 all the way through to the PLB at the other end - from the time the line is taken to the time it is given back. This applies uniquely to each line. Each line will have a minimum of two blocking points. If there is a junction this will create a third blocking point - and additionally for all additional junctions. Loops and sidings between the end points may or may not be in the T3. If they are in it they don't need an additional blocking point. If they are not part of the possession they will require additional blocking points. All this is detailed in the instructions for the specific T3.

In my day (and I don't see that it will have changed) a T3 is a T3 - end of story...
So - when a T3 is given up that's it - the T3 is over. You can then run one train or a hundred or more. Subsequently you would take a completely fresh T3 - starting from scratch.
To a fair extent this is why there is no point in giving up a T3 near the beginning or end of any Block - all the procedures to clear a possession have to be gone through to give up the first block. Then you have to start over to put in the second one.
In my experience (up to 2010) giving up possessions had become more of a pain in areas with axle counters instead of track circuits - as this meant that the whole possession length had to be inspected (usually by a RR Landrover) before the line(s) could be given back.
I would be interested to know if anything has changed.

Giving up any block on one line before all lines are finished with is a nasty practice! Trains coming through on lines that have become open for a short time are a hazard. They're usually speed restricted (20mph) but that doesn't always happen in practice. Every team working on track is supposed to be informed before the first block is given up and again before the new one is put on. (Clearly - in any subsequent block movements can be at any time and in any direction - as in the first).

 

[Sunset route]

In my experience (up to 20010) giving up possessions had become more of a pain in areas with axle counters instead of track circuits - as this meant that the whole possession length had to be inspected (usually by a RR Landrover) before the line(s) could be given back.
I would be interested to know if anything has changed.

Axle counters are still a pain but we have EPRs engineers possession reminders for unconditional resets after the vehicle management forms have been completed for the LCV line clear verification process and the T3 possession has been given up. At my location it can take 25 minutes to reset all the EPRs after the possession has been given up before you can start to move trains again.

 

[nom de guerre]

The other issue with axle counters is that some PICOPs seem to lack knowledge of the rules & regs, eg removing EPR for signal testing; giving up T3s around a train located in a track circuited area of a mixed block.

 

[Sunset route]

The other issue with axle counters is that some PICOPs seem to lack knowledge of the rules & regs, eg removing EPR for signal testing; giving up T3s around a train located in a track circuited area of a mixed block.

Yeah, tell me about it :roll:

 

[carriageline]

T3s shouldn't be given up for trains to proceed and retaken. I've heard that some areas do it, and frankly it's dangerous and a bit stupid. Giving it up in time for the first train is perfectly fine, and happens every single morning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nom de guerre]

Agree. Never heard of it happening in this part of the world.