T&W Metro expansion?

[blackettstreet]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-15031606

I was under the impression that this had been considered but disregarded...does anyone know anything more? Perhaps Nexus would use the Blyth and Tyne, Leamside and similar disused routes?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I do hope the Leamside branch doesn't fall into light rail hands, I have a feeling that reopening it for heavy rail traffic would be quite useful.

 

[blackettstreet]

I do hope the Leamside brqanch doesn't fall into light rail hands, I have a feeling that reopening it for heavy rail traffic would be quite useful.

I did hear they were thinking about reopening that for freight and diversions, but nothing seems to have happened there either...

 

[WatcherZero]

Part of the franchise is that once investment has gone into rolling stock and station refurbishment they would then look at extensions, though nothing will be built for a decade or so. As I understand it their still working on the BCR of various expansions seeing which would break even and worth building.

 

[blackettstreet]

I suppose they'd probably want to use disused lines rather than build new ones, to save money. A breif Google search shows some people think that in addition to the Blyth and Tyne and Leamside lines being used:

- the metro services could run on NR metals to seaham and the metrocentre

- the old bridge across the Tyne at Scotswood could be used to give a line to West End Newcastle, presumably joining the network at St. James'.

Interesting...

 

[142094]

Part of the franchise is that once investment has gone into rolling stock and station refurbishment they would then look at extensions, though nothing will be built for a decade or so. As I understand it their still working on the BCR of various expansions seeing which would break even and worth building.

I don't believe that extensions of any sort are mentioned in the franchise - especially since it is Nexus and not DB which control fares, timetables and other aspects of the system. You might be getting confused with All Chnage programme, which at a later stage will look at possible extensions but this will not having anything to do with DB.

I suppose they'd probably want to use disused lines rather than build new ones, to save money. A breif Google search shows some people think that in addition to the Blyth and Tyne and Leamside lines being used:

- the metro services could run on NR metals to seaham and the metrocentre

- the old bridge across the Tyne at Scotswood could be used to give a line to West End Newcastle, presumably joining the network at St. James'.

Interesting...

If the Leamside line was reopened for Metro, it would no doubt only be used to link in with South Hylton. I can't see a business case for reopening the full line unless it was to be given over for Northern (or later franchises) or for freight/ECML diversions.

Blyth and Tyne will be a non-starter as it is out of Nexus's remit for nearly all the route - it would need siginficant co-operation with Northumberland County Council and funding from the DfT. Again it would no doubt be better to have this served by Northern. If you do a search for SENRUG (South East Northumberland Rail Users Group) you'll see their plans. I was on the Ashington Flyer train a few years back which showed that the route could be used by passenger trains, although stations would need to be rebuilt.

Running to Seaham may be a possibility, although you'd need extra rolling stock so is unlikely to happen until the current fleet is replaced. Again this would require co-operation with Durham County Council - a more realistic plan may be to run to Ryhope (with a large park and ride site perhaps?). Ryhope could be linked by a bus service into Seaham which isn't too far away.

MetroCentre will always be a non-starter if people are suggesting the Metro uses the ECML. It would be possible with a reverse at Blaydon.

The bridge across the Tyne at Scotswood would almost certainly need replacing, as it currently is only fit to carry utilities and sewage pipes. There is also then the issue of how to get to Blaydon station, and some of the route between Elswick and Scotswood would need replacement.

 

[Kryten2340]

I can't see the Metro Centre being feasible as it is well served with the X66 from Gateshead and the 100 from Newcastle. I would say the return on investing for this section would be low.

I would say extending from St James to the west end would be worth the investment, even more so if they can get out as far as Throckley/Newburn.

 

[ChathillMan]

Most of the routes suggested have decent bus link so don't see the point. I see another Edinburgh Trams type scenario if NEXUS get the go ahead as nobody inside NEXUS has the knowledge to pull off this idea, project orpheaus anyone? Project orafice more like...

 

[142094]

Most of the routes suggested have decent bus link so don't see the point. I see another Edinburgh Trams type scenario if NEXUS get the go ahead as nobody inside NEXUS has the knowledge to pull off this idea, project orpheaus anyone? Project orafice more like...

Project Orpheus was quite quickly abandonded, although certain parts are contained in the All Change programme. I admit I didn't like the idea of tram-trains replacing the Metrocars and I still don't.

 

[WatcherZero]

The franchise permits DB to build extensions on its own with private finance and keep the returns, thats why their doing studies, when they took over they were quite keen on the idea of developing their own extensions a few years down the line.

 

[142094]

The franchise permits DB to build extensions on its own with private finance and keep the returns, thats why their doing studies, when they took over they were quite keen on the idea of developing their own extensions a few years down the line.

Where are you getting this information from? The article doesn't mention DB at all, and I can certainly say that there is no-one looking into expansion plans apart from those who work for Nexus.

 

[Samtron2000]

Where are you getting this information from? The article doesn't mention DB at all, and I can certainly say that there is no-one looking into expansion plans apart from those who work for Nexus.

Just because the article doesn't mention it, doesn't mean it's not happening. Watcher is a "man in the know", so to speak!! ::

 

[142094]

Just because the article doesn't mention it, doesn't mean it's not happening. Watcher is a "man in the know", so to speak!! ::

The article doesn't mention it, as it is not happening. Unless Watcherzero works for either Nexus or DB, then he is unlikely to know anything about what was agreed in the concession and what was not. Extensions to the system were not one of the committed obligations.

 

[Jonny]

Hang on, isn't the Blyth and Tyne route still active as a heavy rail for freight anyway?

Oh wait, I forgot... mostly Alcan

 

[142094]

Hang on, isn't the Blyth and Tyne route still active as a heavy rail for freight anyway?

Oh wait, I forgot... mostly Alcan

Big concern that when it closes (which is surely looks as if it will), then chances of getting the line reopened to passenger traffic will be hit. Or, it could provide the impetus for NCC to do something decent for rail transport, instead of looking at putting in the station at Belford.

 

[Clip]

The article doesn't mention it, as it is not happening. Unless Watcherzero works for either Nexus or DB, then he is unlikely to know anything about what was agreed in the concession and what was not. Extensions to the system were not one of the committed obligations.

I know a few people in DB who dealt with the bid and still work on T&W who ill ask to see what is/not happenning..

whether they tell me is another thing.

Would be great to get something along to benwell/Scotswood though - whilst yes they do have good bus routes they can be a nightmare at times and if they used the old bridge then it would open up more possibilities for people to get to the metrocentre and such like.

I wouldnt go to Throckley though. It smells.

 

[markydh]

Throckley is a vastly nicer place than Benwell or Scotswood will ever be!

 

[Clip]

Throckley is a vastly nicer place than Benwell or Scotswood will ever be!

Benwells ace man!! Best place to grow up in

 

[robertclark125]

The possibilities of an extension were considered by me in a thread on here a few years ago, "West of St. James". Clearly the likes of Metrocentre or Throckley are good traffic objectives. With regards to the Metrocentre, I don't see it as replacing the national rail service, but instead offering a link from areas west of St. James to Metrocentre, via a new bridge over the Tyne, and terminating at, or close to, the current National rail station, thus also offering interchange opportunities for those wishing to travel to Hexham or Carlisle.

Furthermore, looking in the opposite direction, people wishing to travel from Carlisle to Newcastle city centre could be encouraged to change at Metrocentre, as opposed to Central, thus easing pressure at Central, and making better use of platform four at Monument, which isn't really overcrowded.

 

[ChathillMan]

I know this is borderline fantasy but how about Metrocentre/Blaydon via Newcastle Central, Manors and Heaton to join the Metro line there, so you could have a Coast to Metrocentre/Blaydon service via Central Station, maybe an underground walkway between Central Station lower level and the current platform 5/7 at Central Station similar to that linking Kings Cross and St Pancras to the underground.

Maybe have some specific DMU trains for this route.

Blaydon could then be developed into a proper public transport interchange with buses from Winlaton, Ryton etc connecting with the Metro and also a park and ride facility.

ok now I am in realms of fantasy

 

[142094]

I know this is borderline fantasy but how about Metrocentre/Blaydon via Newcastle Central, Manors and Heaton to join the Metro line there, so you could have a Coast to Metrocentre/Blaydon service via Central Station, maybe an underground walkway between Central Station lower level and the current platform 5/7 at Central Station similar to that linking Kings Cross and St Pancras to the underground.

Maybe have some specific DMU trains for this route.

Blaydon could then be developed into a proper public transport interchange with buses from Winlaton, Ryton etc connecting with the Metro and also a park and ride facility.

ok now I am in realms of fantasy

I'd say that Nexus would be very unlikely to allow any sort of new heavy rail service using the current Metro system. Although technically it could be possible, there could be problems at certain stations with gauging issues.

No chance of seeing the Metro running on the ECML either. What would be better, is for the current service from Newcastle -MetroCentre to be extended at all times to serve Blaydon, and also Dunston.

 

[ChathillMan]

I was thinking about a dmu specified by metro, maybe a 4 car parry people mover, something like that

 

[Kryten2340]

I know this is borderline fantasy but how about Metrocentre/Blaydon via Newcastle Central, Manors and Heaton to join the Metro line there, so you could have a Coast to Metrocentre/Blaydon service via Central Station, maybe an underground walkway between Central Station lower level and the current platform 5/7 at Central Station similar to that linking Kings Cross and St Pancras to the underground.

Maybe have some specific DMU trains for this route.

Blaydon could then be developed into a proper public transport interchange with buses from Winlaton, Ryton etc connecting with the Metro and also a park and ride facility.

ok now I am in realms of fantasy

I think the only feasible way of something happening is to extend from St James and curve around and tunnel through Elswick emerging at the Newcastle Business Park onto a new bridge and joining the Tyne Valley line at Handy Drive at the curve to/from Dunston. In my view this would be the only way as to use the King Edward bridge would mean crossing a section of 25k power. If they are ever to extend to the Metro Centre from town then they would need to go from Monument. I can't see this ever happening though as the cost would be astronomical. Especially considering the Metro Centre is well served by the bus 100 as well as the number 10 which runs through to Ryton/Crawcrook.

However I don't see why they don't put a set of points in at Gateshead Stadium and join up with the Tyne Valley line there and then run a Sunderland/South Shields to Metro Centre service. Although again this may need to wait until they acquire new stock plus they would have to put a new bit of track in between the two bridges with that section currently electrified for heavy rail usage.

 

[transmanche]

shat would be better, is for the current service from Newcastle -MetroCentre to be extended at all times to serve Blaydon, and also Dunston.

I think trains terminating at MetroCentre have 10 minutes to travel to Swalwell Junction, reverse and return to form the next service towards Newcastle.

If the crossover was moved to Blaydon station, I wonder if they would still be able get there reverse and return, all within 10 minutes? If they could, that would give Blaydon a 2tph service without requiring additional staff or stock and without affecting any timetables.

 

[142094]

I think trains terminating at MetroCentre have 10 minutes to travel to Swalwell Junction, reverse and return to form the next service towards Newcastle.

If the crossover was moved to Blaydon station, I wonder if they would still be able get there reverse and return, all within 10 minutes? If they could, that would give Blaydon a 2tph service without requiring additional staff or stock and without affecting any timetables.

I certainly think it would be possible but might depend on Hexham or Carlisle trains that need to pass the unit. Still, it would hugely increase services at Blaydon at very little cost to Northern.

 

[HSTEd]

What are the major reasons a dual voltage Karlsruhe style vehicle could not run on the ECML for the short distance neccesary?

Is this a capacity thing?

 

[142094]

What are the major reasons a dual voltage Karlsruhe style vehicle could not run on the ECML for the short distance neccesary?

Is this a capacity thing?

Funding for a start would be a major barrier, as there would be the OHLE work to be done, plus configuring access between the Metro and ECML would be hard to do. Logically, the Metro could access the ECML before the Manors dive-under, but this would mean that people who wanted to get to Monument would be forced to change at Byker or go to Central mainline station instead. Next would be where to get the additional rolling stock from.

 

[Kryten2340]

Funding for a start would be a major barrier, as there would be the OHLE work to be done, plus configuring access between the Metro and ECML would be hard to do. Logically, the Metro could access the ECML before the Manors dive-under, but this would mean that people who wanted to get to Monument would be forced to change at Byker or go to Central mainline station instead. Next would be where to get the additional rolling stock from.

Is it not possible to put a curve in just outside of Gateshead Stadium so a train can come from Gateshead and around the curve onto the Tyne Valley line? They would still need a new bit of track in between the high level and king edward bridges I suppose to get around the incompatable power line.

 

[transmanche]

I certainly think it would be possible but might depend on Hexham or Carlisle trains that need to pass the unit.

I don't think they'd be an issue as the 'reversing' train would be making the same manoeuvre that it currently does - only about a mile or so further west from the current location.

 

[142094]

Is it not possible to put a curve in just outside of Gateshead Stadium so a train can come from Gateshead and around the curve onto the Tyne Valley line? They would still need a new bit of track in between the high level and king edward bridges I suppose to get around the incompatable power line.

Think it would be a very tight curve indeed, otherwise it would have to be a reverse at Gateshead Stadium.

I don't think they'd be an issue as the 'reversing' train would be making the same manoeuvre that it currently does - only about a mile or so further west from the current location.

Should have put that it is trains from Hexham/Carlisle that might be affected - I think there may be at least one or possibly more where the service that terminates at the MetroCentre allows a Carlisle/Hexham service to go past before making the reverse. Indeed, there used to be at least one where the terminating service at MetroCentre ran ECS back to Newcastle to get out of the way - this was mid afternoon.